Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

riffmongous

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not I just know how much Israelis want to be rid of palestine

Its true they WANT to withdraw. And it will happen suddenly too.

https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-bibi-would-leave-90-of-west-bank-1.5287123
https://www.france24.com/en/20190206-netanyahu-rival-speaks-possible-west-bank-withdrawal


I just want peace between them.


You just hate israelis and want them dead. Admit it.

Hm there was a survey done recently that had very high levels of supportfor annexing the West Bank among Israelis, it was on Haaretz too but I can't find it anymore

42% on average https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-palestinian-conflict-solutions/.premium-42-of-israelis-back-west-bank-annexation-including-two-state-supporters-1.7047313

1641

Matt Barrett wrote: »

And so all the protesters are anti-whatever religion Trump is I suppose?

Who said anything about all protesters?
But the fact is that the left includes anti-semites and those who propagate anti-semitism. Many of the left seem oblivious (if not indifferent) to this.

blackwhite

1641 wrote: »

Who said anything about all protesters?
But the fact is that the left includes anti-semites and those who propagate anti-semitism. Many of the left seem oblivious (if not indifferent) to this.

Or as we can see on here - many actively try to cover up or justify any instances of antisemitism from their "comrades" on the left

jmayo

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They'll leave the oil sit so
Not that they were given a vote to welcome their Israeli overlords.

Ehhh the Israeli's interest in Golan Heights is not about oil, it is about protecting Northern Israel, the Sea of Galilee/Lake Tiberus it's largest reservoir.
In fact control of water is a very important point in the long term game.

The Golan is the high ground and now gives Israel a clear view of Southern Syria all the way to Damascus.
It is a natural defense and allows Israel time to call up reserves.
In fact in 1973 the Golan’s topography and defense lines enabled 177 defending tanks to stop approx. 1,500 Syrian tanks and gave the IDF the much needed time to deploy its reserves.

It would be military lunacy to give over control to an enemy state, especially now since Iran has such control within Syria.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Look the Israeli state commits criminal acts. It occupies the land of others and treats Palestinians like dirt when not murdering them. A crusade is warranted. The Israelis feed the Jewish connection while Jews the world over don't like the Israeli regime claiming to represent all Jews by associating anti-Israel with antisemetism.

And the right is cool with the Jewish people? You can tell the left dislike Jews by all their fighting for equality.

For millennia the Jews were kicked around and even slaughtered by Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Turks, Christians, Muslims so it is hardly surprising that they wouldn't do every thing in their power to protect the one state that is considered their historic homeland.

I always find it unusual how a lot of Irish find this concept so hard to grasp.

The left and what we now term the socially liberal are always telling us how they are fighting for equality, for non discrimination and for those that are downtrodden.
Yet they are in favour of importing millions of people, into the most secular non discriminatory societies, that are in fact more conservative and have far more inbuilt discrimination than probably any native groups.

This group have already shown they are unwilling to integrate and are now beginning to operate in communities with rules that would make the most conservative catholic or free presbyterian blush.

The mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance that allow the left and the socially liberal to excuse this alien non compatible mindset is astounding.

BTW do we ever hear anyone on the left championing the cause of say christians or Baha'is in the Middle East ?

The modern left have a hierarchy of victims and some it seem are way down the totem pole.

Some on the left have gone up their own asses at this stage and they no longer represent those who are at the bottom unless they are one of their sacred cows.

For instance what once stood as the left in Britain, the labour party, have gone out of their way to hide and downplay criminality and brutality carried out by some within one community, have silenced and admonished those that speak of this truth whilst at the same time tolerate bigots who are openly anti-semities or anti white male.

Odhinn

jmayo wrote: »

..................



For millennia the Jews were kicked around and even slaughtered by Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Turks, Christians, Muslims so it is hardly surprising that they wouldn't do every thing in their power to protect the one state that is considered their historic homeland.

.............

They're doing rather more than "protect" themselves, they're colonising areas outside their borders. Building housing and shifting their civillians to those areas can hardly be called defensive action.

Your wee rant about muslims is because 'they're all the same' I suppose. Which is ironic, considering the anti-semites make the same leap of "logic" with regard to the Jews.

Lil Sally Anne Jnr.

jmayo wrote: »

it is hardly surprising that they wouldn't do every thing in their power to protect the one state that is considered their historic homeland.

A lot of waffle in your post so I'll just respond to this. The land currently occupied by Israel is not their "historic homeland" in any sense of the word. Historical immigration statistics were given earlier in the thread showing how massive swathes of land were bought by international Jews around the time of the First World War, whereby the existing tenant farmers were evicted.

Other options for a Jewish homeland were also considered in places such as Uganda, Kenya.

Odhinn

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

A lot of waffle in your post so I'll just respond to this. The land currently occupied by Israel is not their "historic homeland" in any sense of the word. Historical immigration statistics were given earlier in the thread showing how massive swathes of land were bought by international Jews around the time of the First World War, whereby the existing tenant farmers were evicted.

Other options for a Jewish homeland were also considered in places such as Uganda, Kenya.

What are those?

Lil Sally Anne Jnr.

Odhinn wrote: »

What are those?

Intended to mean Jews from a range of other countries, and nothing more.
Now if you'd like to argue with the content of my post please go ahead.

Odhinn

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Intended to mean Jews from a range of other countries, and nothing more.
Now if you'd like to argue with the content of my post please go ahead.

At the time of the 1946 survey, some 75% of the land was still in Palestinian hands, as far as I recall, so "massive" may not be the most accurate of terms.

silverharp

Odhinn wrote: »

They're doing rather more than "protect" themselves, they're colonising areas outside their borders. Building housing and shifting their civillians to those areas can hardly be called defensive action.

terms like "colonosing" seem very loaded ?why do you care so much? would you be this passionate about some corner of a border between iraq and iran say? i know I wouldnt. tell me if im wrong but israel was attacked but defeated the attack, took a bunch of land in the process and why not , gave most of it back and held on to some. nothing that hasnt happened all over Europe in the last 100 years.

Odhinn

silverharp wrote: »

terms like "colonosing" seem very loaded ?
.

What would you describe Israels actions in the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem as?

silverharp wrote: »

why do you care so much? would you be this passionate about some corner of a border between iraq and iran say? .

....you mean like West Papua, East Timor, Western Sahara, Northern cyprus and Tibet? Yes, I would.

silverharp wrote: »

i know I wouldnt. tell me if im wrong but israel was attacked but defeated the attack, took a bunch of land in the process and why not , gave most of it back and held on to some. nothing that hasnt happened all over Europe in the last 100 years.

Seeing as the only thing that seizure of land led to in Europe was generally the seeds of the next war, annexation of land by force is illegal under international law.

James Brown

1641 wrote: »

Who said anything about all protesters?

Japers, if the Rothchild protester supposedly hates Jews, then everyone there protesting Trump....you with me, what ever religion he is...?

1641 wrote: »

Anyone notice the banner at the anti - Trump protest today to the effect that they were all in the pocket of "the Rothschild's"? Not anti semitic, though, of course.

1641 wrote: »

But the fact is that the left includes anti-semites and those who propagate anti-semitism. Many of the left seem oblivious (if not indifferent) to this.

"if not indifferent" ask me arse. I'm sure you can find antisemites everywhere and I'm sure you can in many leftist groups. However it's used as a tool to dismiss any left leaning or socialist group looking for equality and a fair society like the left are inherently antisemitic, for example this comrade below...

blackwhite wrote: »

Or as we can see on here - many actively try to cover up or justify any instances of antisemitism from their "comrades" on the left

It's an old right winger tactic. For some reason disputing the claim makes you complicit. It's farcical TBH. He'd not be quick in coming up with examples of his claims of "many actively try to cover up or justify any instances of antisemitism". Makes for good stirage though.

silverharp

Odhinn wrote: »

Seeing as the only thing that seizure of land led to in Europe was generally the seeds of the next war, annexation of land by force is illegal under international law.

germany lost a lot of land to poland, but israel is more comparable to Poland in this situation, annexing is a term generally used for belligerents but even if not i'd be inclined to say tough t1ts to Germany for attacking Poland and tough t1ts for attacking Israel

James Brown

silverharp wrote: »

germany lost a lot of land to poland, but israel is more comparable to Poland in this situation, annexing is a term generally used for belligerents but even if not i'd be inclined to say tough t1ts to Germany for attacking Poland and tough t1ts for attacking Israel

It's not comparable to either IMO.
Israel is a creation placed upon the region. Constantly expanding aggressively.

Igotadose

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's not comparable to either IMO.
Israel is a creation placed upon the region. Constantly expanding aggressively.

Agreed. Neither Germany nor Poland were created by UN vote, unlike Israel. Israel's expansion is defensive in nature, they've expanded into land won during conflict. It's not invaded and annexed land, as Germany attempted in WWII and Russia just did recently in Crimea.

Perfectly logical to expand your country when you've repelled invaders. Spread out and keep your sworn enemies further away. Actually that's not quite right - Israel's neighbor's have sworn to destroy it, Israel's not taken a counter-oath.

riffmongous

Igotadose wrote: »

Agreed. Neither Germany nor Poland were created by UN vote, unlike Israel. Israel's expansion is defensive in nature, they've expanded into land won during conflict. It's not invaded and annexed land, as Germany attempted in WWII and Russia just did recently in Crimea.

Perfectly logical to expand your country when you've repelled invaders. Spread out and keep your sworn enemies further away. Actually that's not quite right - Israel's neighbor's have sworn to destroy it, Israel's not taken a counter-oath.

Except it was the Israelis who invaded

(possibly justified, but that's a whole other question and not fitting to your narrative)

ILoveYourVibes

riffmongous wrote: »

Except it was the Israelis who invaded

(possibly justified, but that's a whole other question and not fitting to your narrative)

No it was the Arab league who invaded the state of Israel.

riffmongous

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No it was the Arab league who invaded the state of Israel.

Not in '67 which is what I assume he was referring to by expansion

ILoveYourVibes

1641 wrote: »

Who said anything about all protesters?
But the fact is that the left includes anti-semites and those who propagate anti-semitism. Many of the left seem oblivious (if not indifferent) to this.

They are not oblivious. They perceive it as punching up because they perceive Jews to be wealthy and elite.


They also have no idea that about 70% of Israelis are Arab Jews from Arab or descended from Arab countries. And that most present day Israelis have at least one grandparent from the original Palestinian Jewish population.

And most Ashkenazi are descended from people who had to flee for obvious reasons. Hitler was the one who forced many ashkenazi to palestine. And the grand mufti supported hitler at the time.

ILoveYourVibes

riffmongous wrote: »

Not in '67 which is what I assume he was referring to by expansion

Not sure what you are referring to.

Most Jews who are currently in west bank settlements where living there before though for generations they are not ashkenazi.

These are the jews who were expelled in 48. They wanted to go home.

Its why part of why mizrahi generally vote tougher on security than ashkenazi.

Those jews have been living there a long long time.


Ashkenazi Israelis are overall less devout, more socially liberal, and have more favorable opinions towards improving relations with Arab peoples, and greater opposition to settlements in the West Bank, than Israelis of Sephardic and Mizrahi extraction.

Ironically the Israelis activists GIVE out about for being colonists are the ones more open to giving in to Palestinians and disagree with the settlements. ( I assume activists are not going to call jews who are arabs or living in the area hundreds of years colonists) .

Mizrahi (inc those who were palestinian jews ) are way more nationalistic.

But weirdly even palestinians like mizrahi more than ashkenazi because culturally they are similar.

Its really complicated.

Patty Hearst

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You think Muslims made Europe hellish???

I think it was the Germans. They need diluting.:pac:

"They need diluting"

Perhaps this is the real reason for the upsurge in antisemitism lately

ILoveYourVibes

Patty Hearst wrote: »

"They need diluting"

Perhaps this is the real reason for the upsurge in antisemitism lately

And the shrinking of your sense of humor!

Patty Hearst

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And the shrinking of your sense of humor!

Joke or not you (being Jewish) know full well that the perceived enthusiasm of Jewish people for mass immigration to the West is a major factor in the current rise of Antisemitism.

ILoveYourVibes

Patty Hearst wrote: »

Joke or not you (being Jewish) know full well that the perceived enthusiasm of Jewish people for mass immigration to the West is a major factor in the current rise of Antisemitism.

No its not.

First time i have ever heard it.

Patty Hearst

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No its not.

First time i have ever heard it.

I find that hard to believe.

ILoveYourVibes

Patty Hearst wrote: »

I know all about her, I think its interesting that in this entire thread the real reasons for the surge in contemporary Antisemitism are almost entirely ignored while the red herring of Palestine is discussed ad nauseum.

Antisemitism is nothing to do with Jews.


We can't behave for you. Is that what you are saying??

Racism is not down to badly behaved black people.

Its internal to a racist.


Antisemites usually don't even know any jews.

Do you realize how many jews are left in Europe??

very few.

There is no reason for antisemitism ..that is why its antisemitism.

Patty Hearst

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

She is a nutjob.

She is an Armenian genocide denier which is illegal in many countries.

I assure you she doesn't want muslims immigrating to Europe.

When she means multicultural she means jews only.

What about Ronit Lentin, any opinions on her?

ILoveYourVibes

Patty Hearst wrote: »

I find that hard to believe.

It's difficult to understand why you believe a Jewish conspiracy theory anymore considering there are so few jews in Europe anymore.

Patty Hearst

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Antisemitism is nothing to do with Jews.


We can't behave for you. Is that what you are saying??

Racism is not down to badly behaved black people.

Its internal to a racist.


Antisemites usually don't even know any jews.

Do you realize how many jews are left in Europe??

very few.

There is no reason for antisemitism ..that is why its antisemitism.

"We can't behave for you" I don't know what you mean there?

By the by I've nothing against Israel and I very much admire their strength of National identity.
I do though dislike the likes of Lerner Spectre.

ILoveYourVibes

Patty Hearst wrote: »

What about Ronit Lentin, any opinions on her?

She is a nice lady. I don't agree with everything she says though. I don't disagree with everything she says though either.