Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

kowloon

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Strumms

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Its amazing the rich French people are falling over themselves to donate money to fix a building.but poverty and homelessness are rife there to.i don't see the rich running to their aid.its a **** ing building.

Poverty and homelessness exist across the planet in every country and city on earth. Poverty and homelessness exist for multiple reasons, reasons that writing big fûck off cheques are not always going to come close to solving. That church wasn’t just a must see tourist magnet, it is a spiritual home and beacon of beauty that’s caters for and shelters the homeless and disenfranchised of Paris.

Franz Von Peppercorn

rossie1977 wrote: »

All in same area at La Defense



Tour Montparnasse stands completely alone at 689 foot

Proper city. Even the “low rise” is high rise by Dublin standards.

Franz Von Peppercorn

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The money that is being fired around is disturbing

I'm sure the peasants felt the same way when they started building it

I’d say they were very happy with the work.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I agree, i was only making the point to highlight how quickly media picks up on the rescue or revival of a western tragedy as opposed to a conflict area of the world.

You should start a thread on those atrocities when they happen and pledge some money.

SEPT 23 1989

kowloon wrote: »

In fairness the man has his beliefs and he sticks to them

Spanish Eyes

Thread descending to the Gargoyles.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I don’t get the upset with billionaires spending money. That money is either going to do two things.

1) stay in the billionaires bank account
2) be spent on the cathedral.

There’s no option 3. They have that money because they dont give to charity.

Don’t like billionaires having money? Tax then more. Want the money to go to the poor? Also more tax.

Still waters

Every cloud has a silver lining, it'll keep a lot of builders busy for years to come

Pretzill

An awful lot of money goes to charitable causes - a lot falls into the wrong hands and people still continue to suffer - I don't have a problem with the elite wanting to help restore this iconic building - the apple logo in stained glass may be a step too far though.

Roger_007

Pretzill wrote: »

An awful lot of money goes to charitable causes - a lot falls into the wrong hands and people still continue to suffer - I don't have a problem with the elite wanting to help restore this iconic building - the apple logo in stained glass may be a step too far though.

The 'forbidden fruit' features in many pieces of religious art, even with a bite,(byte), missing? It would be easy to slip it into a panel of a stained glass window.
Speaking of windows, has Bill Gates promised anything yet?

J Mysterio

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Hopefully all money from the EU refused. The rebuild should be funded privately only. I have seen far too many iconic structures scarred with EU flags outside.

Name one.

jimbobaloobob

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You should start a thread on those atrocities when they happen and pledge some money.

Good man ill be sure to send you a link.

poisonated

Some people here giving out about people donating money to fix an iconic building. You can never win with some people.

gozunda

Roger_007 wrote: »

The 'forbidden fruit' features in many pieces of religious art, even with a bite,(byte), missing? It would be easy to slip it into a panel of a stained glass window.

Speaking of windows, has Bill Gates promised anything yet?

Nah he's probably to busy investing in his business of fake meat to sell to the masses so he can make his next fortune. Some day instead of 'steaks' we will all be eating 'fakes' and paying some mega corporation for the privilege. All smoke and mirrors for sure.

Remarkable little gif from inside.

https://www.reddit.com/comments/bdvwpz

Hoboo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

. They have that money because they dont give to charity.

Billionaires have money because they don't give to charity? Really? They wouldn't avail of charitable trusts and tax benefits, lobbying through support of others charities, and the advantageous outcomes of a positive CSR strategy?

Nevermind generosity, philanthropy and generally being decent human beings.

They don't all live in evil lairs. Not even Denis O'Brien.

Tokyo

As bad as the fire was, the 5-year goal for repair does seem achievable, looking at the interior photos.

Effects

gozunda wrote: »

Nah he's probably to busy investing in his business of fake meat to sell to the masses so he can make his next fortune. Some day instead of 'steaks' we will all be eating 'fakes' and paying some mega corporation for the privilege. All smoke and mirrors for sure.

Can't believe you dragged you anti vegan/vege crap into this thread. Give it a rest mate.

smurgen

The amount of conspiracy theory crap coming out over this is just unbelievable.what the he'll is wrong with people.also trump is an idiot.and anyone suggesting helicopters is thick too.a dump of water would lead to a fast change in temperature for the stone masonry. Stone can crack or even explode if the go from hot to cold too fast.tge French firemen played a blinder.

Beechwoodspark

The real heroes are the firefighters who risked their lives in that crucial 30 min period where the entire structure was in imminent danger.

Chapeau!

gctest50

smurgen wrote: »

The amount of conspiracy theory crap coming out over this is just unbelievable.what the he'll is wrong with people.also trump is an idiot.and

anyone suggesting helicopters is thick too.a dump of water would lead to a fast change in temperature for the stone masonry

. Stone can crack or even explode if the go from hot to cold too fast.tge French firemen played a blinder.

smurgen wrote: »

anyone suggesting helicopters is thick too.
a dump of water would lead to a fast change in temperature for the stone masonry

The release of water, foam etc from a helicopter can be very controllable

like this :

So you can ram this insult :

smurgen wrote: »

anyone suggesting helicopters is thick too.

4ensic15

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What burned and wasn’t reinstated? What new buildings went up?

Every building that survives the guts of a thousands years will have some restoration work done.

Most of the 4 courts complex is a replacement for the buildings that were there in 1922. The same goes for the GPO after 1916. The buildings were not repaired or renewed, they were replaced, apart from some feartures of the facades.

Wibbs

gctest50 wrote: »

The release of water, foam etc from a helicopter can be very controllable

like this :



So you can ram this insult :

He still has a point about thermal shock to stonework. Secondly going precise is a tad difficult flying a helicopter into a fire like that where the heat creates vicious thermals which could easily cause control issues, not so good in an urban environment and around a tall structure surrounded by smoke.

Still waters

gozunda wrote: »

Nah he's probably to busy investing in his business of fake meat to sell to the masses so he can make his next fortune. Some day instead of 'steaks' we will all be eating 'fakes' and paying some mega corporation for the privilege. All smoke and mirrors for sure.

Do you ever take a break from your role as Larry goodmans head man for global meat promotion

zell12

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

smurgen

gctest50 wrote: »

The release of water, foam etc from a helicopter can be very controllable

like this :



So you can ram this insult :

That's a tree not limestone ésse! Sad for you.

MrMusician18

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

Isn't it more interesting that the trials and tribulations of the FAI is viewed as more important than cyclone Idai.

What's local and relatable is always more important than that far away not relatable.

B0jangles

rossie1977 wrote: »

Smaller sure but the interior of Longford was completely destroyed which isn't the case with Notre Dame. I think 5 years that it can reopen to the public is an achievable timeline. Obviously you don't need the roof to be fully completed before reopening.

La Sagrada Familia is undergoing construction for last 100+ years and it's open to the public

I'm no builder so I could be talking rubbish, but I would have thought it would be a lot harder to rebuild a roof over a delicate and ancient interior than if you've got a straight run to ground level on both the inside and outside of the walls?

Hedgelayer

It's was an epic fire to say the least, must have gone up like paper.

Wood which was drying out for that length of time fire's up like an inferno.

They Will have some job on their hands sourcing the right timber if they are going to replicate the last design.

Wouldn't it be worse if it collapsed when full of tourists.

nc6000

Deleted User wrote: »

Remarkable little gif from inside.

https://www.reddit.com/comments/bdvwpz

I'm amazed at how untouched most of the interior is and that the rose windows are OK.

When watching the news on Monday I thought we would be looking at a pile of rubble in a few hours.

B0jangles

nc6000 wrote: »

I'm amazed at how untouched most of the interior is and that the rose windows are OK.

When watching the news on Monday I thought we would be looking at a pile of rubble in a few hours.

I was thinking the same; maybe it's because normally when you see flames like that, it's after they worked their way up from ground level so by the time they burst out through the roof, the interior has been completely incinerated, whereas in this case, the flames started at the top so while it looked appalling, the lower levels weren't hugely exposed to either the flames or even a huge amount of heat? The survival of the rose windows is astonishing when you see how close the fire was to them

MrMusician18

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm no builder so I could be talking rubbish, but I would have thought it would be a lot harder to rebuild a roof over a delicate and ancient interior than if you've got a straight run to ground level on both the inside and outside of the walls?

They didn't have a clear run to ground, they saved as much original structure as they could. This even meant cutting out damaged sections of stone columns and replacing them, with all the complicated propping that entailed. Further complicating matters was that some columns were originally built incorrectly with the stone bedding planes laid vertically rather than horizontally. This meant that in the intense heat of the fire the stone spalled and blew apart much more easily than it would've if it had been laid correctly.

Just on another note, I see non-experts are still touting helicopters and water bombing. While I'm no expert either, when you view the pictures of the interior, the approach of the Parisian fire brigade can be seen to have been absolutely correct. The vaulting has largely survived which protected the interior, the wooden structure of the towers was saved which prevented catastrophic collapse, even the candles in the candle holders didn't even melt.

I think the real issue is that the television cameras covering the story were so far away they couldn't see the massive effort going on to save the treasures and the firefighting going on inside the building. To the untrained eye, the two or three puny aerial hoses seen on TV made the rescue effort look completely inadequate.

Sardonicat

Fair play to the fire service.

Timberrrrrrrr

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

Wheres your thread on it?

gozunda

Effects wrote: »

Can't believe you dragged you anti vegan/vege crap into this thread. Give it a rest mate.

And your only contribution to this thread is a personal attack - Really?

You appear to be making a habit of this type of ****e tbh

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973138/1/#post109953033

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057973138/1/#post109953042

MrMusician18

For those that are interested an good presentation on the technical challenges faced in restoring St. Mel's can be found here:
http://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/communications/conference/kevin-mullery-ger-neville-2015-conference-presentation.pdf

otnomart

Ghent Cathedral to help in Notre-Dame reconstruction
"The Cathedral hasn’t got fire detectors or sprinklers, but these will be installed soon. Using water in buildings like this isn’t easy as the pressure the water creates could bring down the vaults.
Ghent Cathedral possesses an evacuation plan for people and for works of art. The works of art are listed in order with the ones that must be saved first at the top. "
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/en/2019/04/17/ghent-cathedral-to-help-in-notre-dame-reconstruction/

Mrcaramelchoc

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would you say the same if the G.P.O or the 4 courts burned down tomorrow?

Is that a serious question?the four courts?i can see the billionaires lining up to. Donate money and get that rebuilt alright
The gpo maybe id ........... Actually no id be surprised and then i continue on with whatever i was doing.

Bunny12345

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

gozunda

Bunny12345 wrote: »

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

Agreed and here's some more recent whataboutery ...

Still waters wrote: »

Every cloud has a silver lining, it'll keep a lot of builders busy for years to come

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

Amazing the crap some will throw at a discussion 'cos of narrow mindness and not being able to see any bigger picture whatsoever. But hey it seems to the same stupid bull**** again and again from the few...

o1s1n

zell12 wrote: »

Interesting to see that ~1,000 people dead in the recent Cyclone Idai is viewed as less important than a building on fire.

You could literally apply that to anything.

'Interesting that zell12 thought it was more important to go to work today rather than help the poor people suffering from cyclone Idai...what a monster'

gozunda

Interesting article written by Time magazine in 2017 about the state of the cathedral and the then restoration efforts which were being made.

See:

http://time.com/4876087/notre-dame-cathedral-is-crumbling/

shamrock55

is_that_so wrote: »

Don't they have a reputation for just rushing into buildings?

Exactly, and Alot more besides, if this happened in the states we'd prob be talking about firefighter casualties more so than the building

MrMusician18

I see the new York times is reporting that the alarm went off in the roof, in was investigated and dismissed as a false alarm. It went off again half an hour later and an inferno was burning.

There was also a conscious decision not to install firebreaks in the attic because of the aesthetic and they didn't introduce more comprehensive monitoring because they felt that bringing electricity into the roof would increase fire risk.

They did have fire patrols and a permanent fire officer as well as undertaking regular fire drills with the fire brigade

gozunda

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I see the new York times is reporting that the alarm went off in the roof, in was investigated and dismissed as a false alarm. It went off again half an hour later and an inferno was burning.

There was also a conscious decision not to install firebreaks in the attic because of the aesthetic and they didn't introduce more comprehensive monitoring because they felt that bringing electricity into the roof would increase fire risk.

They did have fire patrols and a permanent fire officer as well as undertaking regular fire drills with the fire brigade

A little bit more about that here

.one of the most monitored buildings in our country. In 2010 and 2011, I implemented a rigorous protection protocol for fire risk prevention. Specifically, the protection plan was based on a permanent monitoring system relying on detectors (paying attention to the possible risks of electrical short-circuits), the installation of doors and firewalls, and the presence of two firemen 24 hours a day, making three rounds a day. With the idea being that the sooner the alert was made, the sooner we could intervene. It’s unimaginable, yesterday’s fire spread in an absolutely astounding way!

Reading the rest of that article - Im not sure all of that protection plan worked as planned tbh.

See:
https://frenchly.us/was-everything-possible-done-to-avoid-the-fire-at-notre-dame-cathedral/?cx_frg_widget_id=related_bar&cx_NavSource=noncx_rec&cx_rec_mode=same_tags

Timberrrrrrrr

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Is that a serious question?the four courts?i can see the billionaires lining up to. Donate money and get that rebuilt alright
The gpo maybe id ........... Actually no id be surprised and then i continue on with whatever i was doing.

You may not donate but there are people who have an appreciation for history and architecture who would happily donate.

ToBeFrank123

I can see fire prevention as being critical to the rebuild. Steel or even carbon fibre girders used instead of timber.

To be honest, its amazing the cathedral lasted this long without a major fire, especially the roof.

I don't think this fire was preventable and it was only a matter of time. Maybe it was a blessing in a way, they could have spent millions on the revamp and it might still burn down afterwards. The newly reconstructed cathedral will be better than before. And its made Parisians appreciate the value of it.

Effects

gozunda wrote: »

And your only contribution to this thread is a personal attack - Really?
You appear to be making a habit of this type of ****e tbh

Take it easy man, stop trying to derail the thread.

iamwhoiam

Bunny12345 wrote: »

The amount of "Deyre buildin dese cathedrals but what about de homeless" from people (not just on here) who do f*ck all for the homeless anyway is great

Actually I think people are entitled to an opinion . Not everyone will agree on many issues and we all differ on how money should be spent
I may not agree but I will give people the opportunity to have a different opinion to me .
I absolutely see the beauty and history in Notre Dame , its a stunning building that deserves a second chance . But I also see that our priority sometimes should be people and I get that opinion