Pantano busted for Doping

velo.2010

Missed this news earlier today.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trek-segafredo-suspend-pantano-after-epo-positive/
Second EPO failed test for Trek Segafredo after Cardoso just before the 2017 Tour. Bad timing as they've just signed up Nibali for two years, apparently.

It's gas, most of those done for doping these days aren't guys winning races or names that even get mentioned in races a lot of the time. A lot of talk recently about micro dosing EPO too. Makes you wonder are some better at it /luckier than others.

Doc07

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's gas, most of those done for doping these days aren't guys winning races or names that even get mentioned in races a lot of the time. A lot of talk recently about micro dosing EPO too. Makes you wonder are some better at it /luckier than others.

Doping still rife in top tier cycling but I think lots of journos and fans just too jaded to care anymore unless it’s a star from their own country or a Tour Winner. But atleast accepting that sad fact and also cheering at the Telly watching Paris-Roubaix are both possible.

doozerie

Deleted User wrote: »

It's gas, most of those done for doping these days aren't guys winning races or names that even get mentioned in races a lot of the time. A lot of talk recently about micro dosing EPO too. Makes you wonder are some better at it /luckier than others.

That non-race winners get caught tends to take me by surprise too, I have to remind myself that it really shouldn't. It's likely that some riders take drugs just to survive races (simply to keep their job), some take drugs to maximise the chances of their team leader to win (by working harder throughout the race so that their leader doesn't have to), and then there are the relatively small pool of potential race winners who take drugs in the hope of clinching a win.

I've heard it said more than once that the guys who are doping must be the ones rolling over the line at the head of the race and that those crawling over the line at the very back of the race, totally knackered, are clearly not using any drugs. But that doesn't take account of how hard those knackered riders worked throughout the race for their team leader. Drugs don't make them superhuman, they don't eliminate their limitations, they just allow them to race harder for longer before they hit their limits.

At the extreme end of the scale, Armstrong showed the effectiveness of a doping regime for an entire team, it seems likely that he wouldn't have "won" so much if he didn't have the support of an entire team of people doped to the gills, no matter how much stuff he pumped into himself.

I've no idea of whether more race winners actually get caught or whether they simply stick in the memory for longer than less immediately recognisable rider names. But I do wonder whether the in-competition testing of those race winners is more intense than the testing of their team mates and therefore more likely to catch race winners that are cheating.

1bryan

Cycling, to me, isn't about dopers and non-dopers. It's about those caught and those not caught, and I can't even bring myself to get annoyed at those caught anymore. Its the sport, and if you're gonna follow the sport you kind of have to accept it.

I like Pantano. This finding doesn't change that for me. There was a great picture, which I can't find, but I did find this;

http://elperiodicodeportivo.com.co/noticias/deportes/uran-se-cayo-y-carlos-betancur-fue-segundo-en-la-etapa-11-de-138367

that is Carlos Bettancurt celebrating as he crossed the finish line on stage 11 of the 2015 Giro. What you can't really see that clear from the picture there, is Pantano breaking his hole laughing in the background cos, unbeknownst to Bettancurt, he only finished second. A lone breakaway rider won that stage and no one told Carlos.

So thanks for the memories Jarlison. It was a sh!tty sport you got involved in, but it was good while it lasted.

Macy0161

In fairness, Pantano is a decent rider. He isn't some anonymous domestique.

I don't know whether I'm jaded by the doping, but I'm jaded by the hypocrisy of the criticism of cycling compared to other pro sports. I do hear it covered on podcasts I listen to, with even the lack of positives not seen as a positive(?) or realistic.

However, I'd rather watch pro cycling, sometimes with an eyebrow raised and a degree of sceptism, than write it off one and follow another (particularly field sports) where they don't care or test in any significant way.

doozerie

1bryan wrote: »

Cycling, to me, isn't about dopers and non-dopers. It's about those caught and those not caught, and I can't even bring myself to get annoyed at those caught anymore. Its the sport, and if you're gonna follow the sport you kind of have to accept it.

I disagree, you don't have to accept it.

Even taking away the many health issues that it would raise, and my implicit support of that horror if I were to accept drug use, from a purely personal point of view I'd hate the idea of kids today facing into the prospect of a sport where drug use was simply accepted.

Cycling is a great sport, drug use is a horrible stain on it. There will always be people who will cheat, not all of them will be caught, but better to try than to simplify sacrifice the sport to cheats.

1bryan

doozerie wrote: »

I disagree, you don't have to accept it.

Even taking away the many health issues that it would raise, and my implicit support of that horror if I were to accept drug use, from a purely personal point of view I'd hate the idea of kids today facing into the prospect of a sport where drug use was simply accepted.

Cycling is a great sport, drug use is a horrible stain on it. There will always be people who will cheat, not all of them will be caught, but better to try than to simplify sacrifice the sport to cheats.

I don't accept drug use, that wasn't my point. I accept the fact that it takes place and probably always will. I'm not alright with it and have come to terms with the fact that I need to suspend disbelief somewhat, in order to still follow the sport.

Nor would I hold it against anyone who gets popped. You do what you gotta do in order to survive. Many of these lads are coming from nothing backgrounds where they've known nothing but poverty (particularly some of the Colombians). If I were in their position I'd likely do whatever it took to get out of that.