Special Forces ultimate hell week

Signore Fancy Pants

Muahahaha wrote: »

It was pretty full on alright. Can you tell us about the scratch, when you went through it how many hours did it last and what sort of stuff did they have ye doing? And is it a one off or something that happens regularly when you're in the army?

Not to be answering for Mak, just my own observation. Plus Mak would have done Scratch back in the day when it was only an Itch and probably rougher :pac:

The version of scratch you saw was a toned down version of the real thing, purely because weapons, military specific kit, tactics, skills (maybe H&S :pac:) have been removed from it.

Saying that, what you saw was accurate and enough to completely fcuk you, the principles are the same despite the military aspect being removed. If you put the effort in like the group last night, you'd be bunched.

Most soldiers have done scratch a number of times while in Recruit training, career courses or just because your Unit felt like a "bonding day". It is not exclusive to SOF Selection Course.

I have been (un)fortunate to have undergone it about 6 times in two decades (longest was probably 8hrs or so) it's not a "regular" thing but it's not designed to be. I have also been a DS on a number of Recruit & career course Scratch's.

I will caveat that by saying "scratch" is designed as "an introduction or refresher to operating on the ground". It's purpose is to physically and mentally push you past your percieved limits, to hear, understand and execute orders under all types of physical and mental pressures. To let you see the strengths and weaknesses of your kit, yourself, your buddy and your military skills.

We also regularly do a thing called "Battle PT" which is pretty much a more structured and shorter (maybe 2 hrs) affair. All your fighting kit on while crawling, dragging tyres, logs, sandbags, etc etc.

At the start, you are dreading it but by the end you are loving it.

Edit: Depending what environment scratch is taking place in will depend on what you do.

*In General* Kit wise: Boots, combat uniform, 3kg kevlar helmet, 5kg rifle or 14kg machinegun, SRAAW, at least 10kg of full front line blank ammunition, 10-15kg battle vest with all your kit inside, 15-20kg small daysack on your back. It can be heavier or lighter than that.

Then you have all the extra stuff, tree trunks, logs, tractor tyres, jerry cans of water, sandbags etc etc.

The river you saw at the start is used for Scratch in that area, it's along a short 10Km route and its a bastard.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not to be answering for Mak, just my own observation. Plus Mak would have done Scratch back in the day when it was only an Itch and probably rougher :pac:
.

I think its time for me to go, daily I'm reminded I'm an old fart now

Sure the first time I done scratch Lugnaquilla was only a speed bump on the way to Glendalough, the arch in McKee was only a mouse hole and Tyre (Lebanon) was only a bicycle tube.

Rezident

Best rte show I've seen in a long time. Very good to watch.

I came back from the ad break and missed the start - what were they pouring the bottles of water over some of their heads for? They said it was a lesson hard learned, but what was that mistake?

blueberrypie

They are not allowed bring water to hydrate, personally I felt it was humiliating to empty it over each others heads rather than just be seen to dump it.

All part of the hard man/ try to break you mentality.
I am a softie.

Mantis Toboggan

blueberrypie wrote: »

They are not allowed bring water to hydrate, personally I felt it was humiliating to empty it over each others heads rather than just be seen to dump it.

All part of the hard man/ try to break you mentality.
I am a softie.

I thought it was because they were told to have their water bottles filled to the top?

Man Vs ManUre

Was Jason Black in it from the start?? There was no mention of him in episode 1. I didn’t think they bring in new participants so he must have been one that went unnoticed??

FishOnABike

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Was Jason Black in it from the start?? There was no mention of him in episode 1. I didn’t think they bring in new participants so he must have been one that went unnoticed??

Is he number 21?

joe40

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is he number 21?

Yeah.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I thought it was because they were told to have their water bottles filled to the top?

I'd say this was the case, no one wants a dehydrated soldier on the ground. I've never heard of a soldier being told not to carry water in a water bottle.

blueberrypie

Mantis Toboggan
Quote:


I thought it was because they were told to have their water bottles filled to the top?


ya i was clearly only half watching it. The bottles weren't filled to the top.
They wanted them to rehydrate as opposed to me thinking they wanted them to be dehydrated.

alchemist33

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Was Jason Black in it from the start?? There was no mention of him in episode 1. I didn’t think they bring in new participants so he must have been one that went unnoticed??

They showed him jumping off the bridge and shoutong his name out. Hadn't spotted him before that but then saw him a few times after

Man Vs ManUre

I reckon I could easily pass this course.
Even on the bridge jump I probably would have done a fully body midair rotation with perfectly angled headfirst dive into the water.

hermano

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Was Jason Black in it from the start?? There was no mention of him in episode 1. I didn’t think they bring in new participants so he must have been one that went unnoticed??

Was he not the guy who brought sleeping tablets when they were inspecting the gear?

Man Vs ManUre

hermano wrote: »

Was he not the guy who brought sleeping tablets when they were inspecting the gear?

Maybe. I just hadn’t heard he was on it till I saw it posted here yesterday. So was a bit surprised it hadn’t been pointed out on the program, he is the only Irish person to climb K2 and come back, so he is a big deal. Maybe RTÉ have a reason to not mention him, though dunno why they would go into details on others background instead of his.

Muahahaha

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not to be answering for Mak, just my own observation. Plus Mak would have done Scratch back in the day when it was only an Itch and probably rougher :pac:

Thanks for the detailed explanation Signore.

Must say it struck me how tough it is, not just on the actual physical exertion but also how long it goes on for. Like the contestants come from all sorts of fitness backgrounds like triathletes, GAA, weight lifting, personal trainers, etc and Im sure they all have the fitness to go hard for two maybe three hours. But extending that out to 6, 7 or even 8 hours is on a completely different level altogether. Unless they trained for that type of endurance in the lead up to the show Id say it is some shock to the system of people who thought they were already super fit but then come out of the event thinking 'oh jesus what am I doing here?'. Undoubtedly it makes contestants seriously question their own ability and belief in themselves.

And then to think that in the military it is done with 45 or 50kg of gear on is another level completely. Fcukin hell, its hard enough doing it without having a monkey on your back!

alchemist33

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Maybe. I just hadn’t heard he was on it till I saw it posted here yesterday. So was a bit surprised it hadn’t been pointed out on the program, he is the only Irish person to climb K2 and come back, so he is a big deal. Maybe RTÉ have a reason to not mention him, though dunno why they would go into details on others background instead of his.

They tend to focus on the early leavers at the start so I suspect he may be staying for a while yet.

Mantis Toboggan

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Maybe. I just hadn’t heard he was on it till I saw it posted here yesterday. So was a bit surprised it hadn’t been pointed out on the program, he is the only Irish person to climb K2 and come back, so he is a big deal. Maybe RTÉ have a reason to not mention him, though dunno why they would go into details on others background instead of his.

Don't think they've gone into detail on anyone apart from the people booted off.

Not sure if the DS' will be too fussed either way, past achievements will count for little, if he's good enough he'll survive.

FishOnABike

alchemist33 wrote: »

They tend to focus on the early leavers at the start so I suspect he may be staying for a while yet.

I'd say the type of physical and mental endurance that get's someone to the top of the biggest and most difficult mountains in the world and back again is the sort of endurance that will see them a long way through. Wouldn't surprise me to see him make it quietly through to the very end.

harr

It seems again this series the leaner the lads are the more the cold gets to them , I remember the instructors talking about this last year.
A lot of lads with little or no fat and no insolation to the cold.. a lot of them probably could do with an extra stone or two

Man Vs ManUre

I don’t think I could handle the abuse though. If one of them fellas were in my face screaming complete nonsense I would knee him in the balls, and then finish him off with a few digs to the head as he was bent over in agony. Then I would run as fast as I can as the others come for me.

Signore Fancy Pants

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

I don’t think I could handle the abuse though. If one of them fellas were in my face screaming complete nonsense I would knee him in the balls, and then finish him off with a few digs to the head as he was bent over in agony. Then I would run as fast as I can as the others come for me.

It may seem like nonsense and abuse but it's not

It's purely a psychological tool to keep people alert and on their toes, making them think about their actions no matter how trivial or miniscule they may be.

Purple Mountain

Hi. I really like this show so I have a few questions that I hope someone could answer.

Is it not a security risk to publicly show the current members of the special branch?
Or to show their training regimes etc?

It seems to be all fear and negativity driven?
Is there no rewards drive for the recruits to get results from them by rewarding positivity? What I mean is, if someone has a very good day, why not give them an extra hours sleep or extra food?
It just all seems to be shouting and roaring at them.

On reality, do the DSs really name call and shout abuse or is that just for the camera?

Thanks

enricoh

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

I don’t think I could handle the abuse though. If one of them fellas were in my face screaming complete nonsense I would knee him in the balls, and then finish him off with a few digs to the head as he was bent over in agony. Then I would run as fast as I can as the others come for me.

With them boys I've a feeling he'd be still standing there after a knee in the balls! Which could be problematic for ya!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Hi. I really like this show so I have a few questions that I hope someone could answer.

Is it not a security risk to publicly show the current members of the special branch?
Or to show their training regimes etc?

It seems to be all fear and negativity driven?
Is there no rewards drive for the recruits to get results from them by rewarding positivity? What I mean is, if someone has a very good day, why not give them an extra hours sleep or extra food?
It just all seems to be shouting and roaring at them.

Why?, because there's too many Wings and too many Wong's and they're afraid people might Wing the Wong number

Thanks

The DS's are retired ex members of the Army Ranger Wing. This isn't showing a training syllabus, tbh its like a day general recruit training (well most of the last show was) and 'scratch' isn't on a syllabus either. Every scratch is different, depending on the cruelty of the DS's (I hear Fancy Pants was cushy and liked cake to soften him up )

They contestants won't be put through foot drill, arms drill, marksmanship, section in attack and other military skills, although I seem to recall they done a nav exercise in the last show but I can't remember if they took lessons in map reading or whether they were under the guidence and supervision of their DS staff.

Its not all fear and negativity, Fancy Pants has explained that. You can't single out someone with extra rations or sleep, they're a unit, when one has done good its rarely an individual effort, its a team effort. So as they're punished as one when there's been a clusterf*ck they're rewarded as one too.

But you'll see the DS's rate each candidate on their efforts, attitude, weaknesses & strengths in their staff room (I'm not sure if the show has a name for the DS's room).

Why?, because there's too many Wings and too many Wong's and they're afraid people might Wing the Wong number

I'll answer this one on its own as its the question most often asked by civilians, even my son still thinks its done for the camera.. Honestly its exactly like the real thing. Its almost funny when we were looking at it yesterday (in work) and I'm sure Fancy Knickers can identify with it.. We knew almost exactly what someone was going to get it in the neck for and what would be said, its hilarious for us because we've all been there and got through it.

Re the lad who climbed K2, fair play to him and he's obviously very fit and tough but now his each and every action is controlled by someone else, everything he does will be because a DS told him to do it, apart from giving in his armband he has little or no control over anything else in his life while he's a contestant and the DS's will only judge him on how he carries himself through the week, I doubt they'll care too much about K2.

Fancy Pants has a lot more experience than me in terms of what the DS's will be looking for, as he's posted earlier he's been a DS a number of times himself.

Purple Mountain

But we never see them being rewarded even as one?

Rmgblue

It seems like a good few of the contestants have a following in the fitness world...
Ger Redmond - prison to pro
Keith Russell - marathon runner who gathered a huge following when he included his daughter Alanna (RIP)
Jason Black - K2 as discussed

I can't remember the little guys name in the retro tracksuit that was booted off but he is in a pic on redmond Instagram. As is Christina Courtney!

Signore Fancy Pants

Purple Mountain wrote: »

But we never see them being rewarded even as one?

It's not really about "reward" though. The reward is a psychological by product of successfully getting through all that has been fcuked at you.

Positive reinforcement is not conducive to military training. If you do good, you don't get a cookie. All that leads to is troops not facing up to gun toating warlords because the officer didnt bring the biscuits. Its an awful form of motivation.

People have to remember (despite peoples perceptions of the Irish military) the end goal of this process is to have soldiers who are capable of fighting with aggression and being able to go through untold hardship, then get up and go again and again and again and again. You may never need us to be operational on island but we train as if we will need to be.

They learn to carry out a myriad of tasks with no food, no sleep, soaking wet, carrying heavy kit, continuing on despite injuries and getting the job done.

It was also Episode 1, they havent been through anything that warrants a rewaed anyway.

Purple Mountain

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

It's not really about "reward" though. The reward is a psychological by product of successfully getting through all that has been fcuked at you.

Positive reinforcement is not conducive to military training. If you do good, you don't get a cookie. All that leads to is troops not facing up to gun toating warlords because the officer didnt bring the biscuits. Its an awful form of motivation.

People have to remember (despite peoples perceptions of the Irish military) the end goal of this process is to have soldiers who are capable of fighting with aggression and being able to go through untold hardship, then get up and go again and again and again and again. You may never need us to be operational on island but we train as if we will need to be.

They learn to carry out a myriad of tasks with no food, no sleep, soaking wet, carrying heavy kit, continuing on despite injuries and getting the job done.

It was also Episode 1, they havent been through anything that warrants a rewaed anyway.

Jesus, that's grim.

Signore Fancy Pants

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Jesus, that's grim.

Only if you don't understand it tbh.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Purple Mountain wrote: »

But we never see them being rewarded even as one?

Not with an extra hour in bed or extra rations lol

I'm sure there'll be plenty as the contestants get to grips with what's expected of them, right now they're bags of ham.

The DS's know the contestants are going through hell, you'll see that as each contestant drops out and the DS congratulate's the contestant on a job well done, 'be proud of yourself' kind of stuff.

No matter how harsh punishments may look, or how bad the cursing and shouting gets its absolutely nothing the DS's haven't been through themselves, same goes for all the other stuff like crawling through water filled pipes, jumping off heights into freezing cold water, press ups, bear crawls etc etc its all par for the course for all soldiers.