Dehorning calves - take out bud?

patsy_mccabe

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

Lime Tree Farm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

I had another look at the device, looks complicated to me, I wouldn't dare dismantle it. I don't fall in to this category of "It Couldn't Be Done and he did it"

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn't," but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you’ll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it;"
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle right in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just starting to sing as you tackle the thing
That "cannot be done," and you'll do it

Edgar Albert Guest (1881-1959) Detroit Free Press columnist.

hopeso

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

I got the spare nozzle too. In a bag along with an O-ring. I didn't know what it was. I couldn't even see a hole!

hopeso

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

I had another look at the device, looks complicated to me, I wouldn't dare dismantle it.

Mine came with fairly detailed instructions for taking it apart, and replacing the nozzel and thing that ignites it.... Maybe if you look at their website, the info might be there, or I'd say they'd send you the instructions if you contacted them....

patsy_mccabe

I'll just leave this here;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm02--HPtIM

Do you still have the spare nozzle.

Lime Tree Farm

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

I didn't get the spare nozzle or instructions with mine.

I managed to find this online just now

https://www.coburn.com/img/product/description/InstructionManuals/ExpressDehornInstr.pdf

patsy_mccabe

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

I didn't get the spare nozzle or instructions with mine.

I managed to find this online just now

https://www.coburn.com/img/product/description/InstructionManuals/ExpressDehornInstr.pdf

Brilliant, that's great to have.

ABitofsense

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

Count Mondego

If you have a good gas one like Portosol you're as well off taking it out, done in a few seconds.

kollegeknight

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

I’d take them out personally. Didn’t get to on one last year and there was regrowth.

Sami23

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

I thought everyone would take out the bud ?
I do anyway.
What way do others do it so

orm0nd

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

Sami23

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

So what do you do and is it age dependant

Dunedin

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

+100 on the above

893bet

Never take one out. Most important thing is that burner is red hot before you start.

I make sure it’s hot enough personally by rubbing over the calves hair. If the hair isn’t singeing/burning and smoking then the dehorner is not hot enough.

10-15 seconds a side and leave bud in. Silver spray. Job done.

2ml of local anest a side is a great job also. Cost is pittance and it makes the job a lot easier on man and animal, especially if you have sucklers and the calves are often 2-6weeks old. Pretty sure it’s a legal requirement also above 2 weeks?

patsy_mccabe

I do mine here by taking out bud. I also do them for 3 different neighbours and they all want them out. If I could just get away by not taking out the bud, it would be a lot easier alright.
I also put the tip back in after the bud is popped out, to ensure there is no bleeding.

richie123

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

PoorFarmer

richie123 wrote: »

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

I stopped taking out the bud a few years ago. Had a few with horns the first year but changed from electric to gas and no problem since. I always have a piece of pallet nearby to check the heat on the dehorner. If it doesn't burn a ring on the wood it's not hot enough

richie123

PoorFarmer wrote: »

I stopped taking out the bud a few years ago. Had a few with horns the first year but changed from electric to gas and no problem since. I always have a piece of pallet nearby to check the heat on the dehorner. If it doesn't burn a ring on the wood it's not hot enough

Same here or smoke a bit of straw with it.
I used an electric dehorner super yoke ...it glowed it got that hot.few seconds ringing the horn job done.

Sami23

richie123 wrote: »

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

So what exactly do ye do if not taking out the bud ?

Is it just twist the dehorner around the bud for a certain time ?

If the calves are strong would you treat them the same as younger ones ?
Thanks

Dunedin

Sami23 wrote: »

So what exactly do ye do if not taking out the bud ?

Is it just twist the dehorner around the bud for a certain time ?

If the calves are strong would you treat them the same as younger ones ?
Thanks

Yes to both questions.

minerleague

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Irish Beef

893bet wrote: »

Never take one out. Most important thing is that burner is red hot before you start.

I make sure it’s hot enough personally by rubbing over the calves hair. If the hair isn’t singeing/burning and smoking then the dehorner is not hot enough.

10-15 seconds a side and leave bud in. Silver spray. Job done.

2ml of local anest a side is a great job also. Cost is pittance and it makes the job a lot easier on man and animal, especially if you have sucklers and the calves are often 2-6weeks old. Pretty sure it’s a legal requirement also above 2 weeks?

Do you have any trouble getting the local anesthetic, vet wouldn't give it the last time I went looking for it. makes a huge difference if horns gone a bit strong,

richie123

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Its just not nesscessary.
Once you've cut the blood supply it will never grow.

tanko

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

This idea that not taking out the bud lessens stress for the calf just isn't true,
Sure your going deeper to encircle the horn than you are to take the bud out.
Anyway anaesthetic should be used so the debate is irrelevant.
My vet always said to take the bud out because he sees cases every year where buds are left in and maggots set up home in them as they rot.

893bet

Irish Beef wrote: »

Do you have any trouble getting the local anesthetic, vet wouldn't give it the last time I went looking for it. makes a huge difference if horns gone a bit strong,

I didn’t last year. Bottle lasts a full year or so.

GrasstoMilk

tanko wrote: »

This idea that not taking out the bud lessens stress for the calf just isn't true,
Sure your going deeper to encircle the horn than you are to take the bud out.
Anyway anaesthetic should be used so the debate is irrelevant.
My vet always said to take the bud out because he sees cases every year where buds are left in and maggots set up home in them as they rot.

Haven't taken a bud out in years, no stumps or horns on any stock

Taking out the bud takes the head longer to heal, it's very sore on the calf imo

You only need to quarterize the veins

Lime Tree Farm

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Adrenacaine and Emdocam used here too, makes a huge difference in recovery time.

Buds always taken out, Alamycin spray

minerleague

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Haven't taken a bud out in years, no stumps or horns on any stock

Taking out the bud takes the head longer to heal, it's very sore on the calf imo

You only need to quarterize the veins

Does the bud fall off at some stage? I dehorn for a couple of neighbours ( elderly ) and they prefer traditional, hard to get them to use anaesthetic but refused to do otherwise. Hard to see any extra pain over the heat of the iron, thought they heal quicker with horn removed ?. Don't think I go any deeper than if I was leaving bud in. One thing I will say people leave calves too long before dehorning, even the limousin the horn is there if you clip around with a good scissors. One man leaves them too old , they be climbing the walls, pure hardship trying to get them in a crate etc.

RobinBanks

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Adrenacaine and Emdocam used here too, makes a huge difference in recovery time.

How much Emdocam do you administer. I use 2.5ml under the skin of Rheumocam but 2.5ml seems like a small dose

Lime Tree Farm

RobinBanks wrote: »

How much Emdocam do you administer. I use 2.5ml under the skin of Rheumocam but 2.5ml seems like a small dose

I give 2 ml SC. calves between 1-2 months. It gives pain relief for 3 days.
I read the SPC again yesterday and it's 2.5ml/100kg,

I pay approx €98 for 100ml, I presume the Rheumocam (meloxicam) is similar price.

patsy_mccabe

Would people think the blue Alamycin spray is better then the aluminium one?
I noticed a few of mine had puss coming from them afterwards . Neighbour said the same. All with buds taken out.

I used to use alamycin originally but then changed to aluminium, after watching a video from Teagasc or someone like that.

Gillespy

I think it is. Vet himself uses the blue spray. Bulls he vasectomised a month ago are still blue. I have seen the vet use our can of aluminium spray and he kept spraying for ages. Putting loads on is probably needed.

grassroot1

I used to use Charcoal wound powder when dehorning is it still available does anyone know?

endainoz

Don't take out buds either, but getting the calf when they're a bit younger helps things a lot, easier to control and don't need to hold the iron on them as long.

Jb1989

Gillespy wrote: »

I think it is. Vet himself uses the blue spray. Bulls he vasectomised a month ago are still blue. I have seen the vet use our can of aluminium spray and he kept spraying for ages. Putting loads on is probably needed.

blue spray first and seal it over with alu. Best of both worlds

patsy_mccabe

Anyone else finding it hard to get Adrenacaine? Vets didn't have it today.
Is it stricter regulations or just a shortage.

tanko

Vets seem to be having trouble getting lots of different stuff recently, was no metacam in my vets yesterday.

TooOldBoots

Don't agree with taking out the bud. Burn a ring around the bud, two twists of the hot Iron, no delay doing both horns. No need to burn a pothole in the side of their skull, once the blood vessels are sealed the horn cannot grow.
Release the calf job done.

patsy_mccabe

Well, my Express gas dehorner wouldn't work this morning. I was doing some calves for a neighbour and it wouldn't light. It was sparking but gas flow was way too low. I had a spare bottle but still no good.
He went to get another gas bottle in COOP and came back with a Buddex Gas dehorner. I used that and found it very good. Tip was very hot.

Anyway I opened up my dehorner and when I put it all back together, it's leaking gas. I changed the jet/filter inside in it, so I'm raging now that it's leaking. I don't think it can be repaired too looking at it.

So Have I to splash out another €200 ?

I've also realised now, how it gets blocked. The tiniest bit of dirt on the top of the gas bottle can block it. You have to keep the bottles clean and put the plastic caps back on when not using.

Lime Tree Farm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone else finding it hard to get Adrenacaine? Vets didn't have it today.
Is it stricter regulations or just a shortage.

I managed to get an alternative brand, Alfacaine 2%, Vet said 4 mls each side.

kollegeknight

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well, my Express gas dehorner wouldn't work this morning. I was doing some calves for a neighbour and it wouldn't light. It was sparking but gas flow was way too low. I had a spare bottle but still no good.
He went to get another gas bottle in COOP and came back with a Buddex Gas dehorner. I used that and found it very good. Tip was very hot.

Anyway I opened up my dehorner and when I put it all back together, it's leaking gas. I changed the jet/filter inside in it, so I'm raging now that it's leaking. I don't think it can be repaired too looking at it.

So Have I to splash out another €200 ?

I've also realised now, how it gets blocked. The tiniest bit of dirt on the top of the gas bottle can block it. You have to keep the bottles clean and put the plastic caps back on when not using.

I bought a new head for my express this year and the old one broke last year and didn’t work properly on two calves. Massive difference in how quick it heated up. I reckon hold onto it and try repair. It’s a great bit of kit.

patsy_mccabe

kollegeknight wrote: »

I bought a new head for my express this year and the old one broke last year and didn’t work properly on two calves. Massive difference in how quick it heated up. I reckon hold onto it and try repair. It’s a great bit of kit.

Thanks, who did you get it from?

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well, my Express gas dehorner wouldn't work this morning. I was doing some calves for a neighbour and it wouldn't light. It was sparking but gas flow was way too low. I had a spare bottle but still no good.
He went to get another gas bottle in COOP and came back with a Buddex Gas dehorner. I used that and found it very good. Tip was very hot.

Anyway I opened up my dehorner and when I put it all back together, it's leaking gas. I changed the jet/filter inside in it, so I'm raging now that it's leaking. I don't think it can be repaired too looking at it.

So Have I to splash out another €200 ?

I've also realised now, how it gets blocked. The tiniest bit of dirt on the top of the gas bottle can block it. You have to keep the bottles clean and put the plastic caps back on when not using.

I have the Gas buddex with a good few years, never gave a bother really but has been cutting out a bit lately. Is it awkward to change the jet in them? Think there is a spare 1 in the box.

patsy_mccabe

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I have the Gas buddex with a good few years, never gave a bother really but has been cutting out a bit lately. Is it awkward to change the jet in them? Think there is a spare 1 in the box.

That's where I went wrong with my Express one. I went changing it out in the neighbours yard, as he had trouble getting the cows and calves in to do.
I started opening it in the middle, but as far as I can see, you need to start taking it apart from the hot tip end and work back. Maybe if I had done that it wouldn't be leaking as I opened a part that didn't need to be opened. Mine needed a 24mm spanner to open the brass nut to get at it.

Do you still have the instructions in the box. I could scan the ones i have here from the neighbours new Buddex one !!!!

kollegeknight

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Thanks, who did you get it from?

I bought it off https://magentadirect.ie

I bought both the 15mm and 20mm tip as I wasn’t certain which to use but I ended up using the 15mm tip.

I have also found before that brand new cans would be empty or not working right.

kollegeknight

We must have the express gas dehorner 20 years at this stage, it is a cracking bit of kit.
Have a little parasol one too but don’t use it half the time but lately, don’t use it at all.

Lime Tree Farm

It says on the Adrenacaine leaflet 2-5 mls each side for debudding. I inject between 3-4 mls per side. I have been told by another person that 2 ml each side is sufficient. How much are others on here giving? and how effective is 2 mls. and would the lower amount stay effective for a shorter length of time.

minerleague

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

It says on the Adrenacaine leaflet 2-5 mls each side for debudding. I inject between 3-4 mls per side. I have been told by another person that 2 ml each side is sufficient. How much are others on here giving? and how effective is 2 mls. and would the lower amount stay effective for a shorter length of time.

2 ml here , see the eyelids drooping, seems to work well, did some weekend and last calf got extra as bottle near finished and did seem to last longer alright.

Base price

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

It says on the Adrenacaine leaflet 2-5 mls each side for debudding. I inject between 3-4 mls per side. I have been told by another person that 2 ml each side is sufficient. How much are others on here giving? and how effective is 2 mls. and would the lower amount stay effective for a shorter length of time.

Depends on the age of the calf and how strong the bud is. A FR done at a month old will only need 2ml but a continental will need more as their buds only really start to show through when older.