Extinction Rebellion Ireland

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Please tell me your joking, "more taxes and a massive reduction in our standard of living"

Nope. We cannot continue consuming as we are. How can you disagree with that?

Thelonious Monk

bubblypop wrote: »

Hopefully not.
Taxing people in Ireland will have no effect on climate change.

Less spending and buying is better for the environment. Current economic model can only lead to chaos.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Less spending and buying is better for the environment. Current economic model can only lead to chaos.

But less spending in Ireland is not going to have any affect on climate change

Thelonious Monk

bubblypop wrote: »

But less spending in Ireland is not going to have any affect on climate change

Less consumption worldwide. We’re all in it together.

Beechwoodspark

Hector Savage wrote: »

Why is overpopulation never mentioned ?
That's the elephant in the room - fix overpopulation and climate change will take care of itself.

It is a long term solution of course.

Overpopulation and over industrialization for sure are parts of the problem

But the issue won’t take care of itself

We have pumped huge volumes of co2 and other gases into the atmosphere. They are not going to “go away quietly”.

Solutions need to be deployed and no further emissions need to be added to the sh1tshow.

suicide_circus

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s not about a class conflict it’s about emissions. The target is emissions. The green tax can be used to research and deploy effective solutions.

if you won't have the courage to admit that carbon taxes will disproportionately hit the pockets and quality of life of ordinary people rather than the wealthy, there's really no point in engaging with you.

Thelonious Monk

suicide_circus wrote: »

if you won't have the courage to admit that carbon taxes will disproportionately hit the pockets and quality of life of ordinary people rather than the wealthy, there's really no point in engaging with you.

But there will always be richer people, no matter how much tax they pay. If it hurts the poor more so be it, no one is going to starve in Ireland any time soon. Our idea of homeless here is living for free in a hotel ffs. Unless it’s communism you want, which would be great if it worked imo.

average_runner

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The rich will still be rich just not quite as rich as they’ll pay fair share too hopefully.

No, the rich will just expense it and lead to more reductions in the workforce.

average_runner

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Less spending and buying is better for the environment. Current economic model can only lead to chaos.

That is not true. Less spending power means people will look for cheaper alternatives, they start to burn wood in the houses, have older cars on the road and buy cheap dirt food. All will have a bigger impact on the environment

average_runner

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But there will always be richer people, no matter how much tax they pay. If it hurts the poor more so be it, no one is going to starve in Ireland any time soon. Our idea of homeless here is living for free in a hotel ffs. Unless it’s communism you want, which would be great if it worked imo.

Put it this way, when a family has a choice to pick from heating the house or giving the kid best nutritional food, the kid will always lose out.

Jimmy Garlic

blinding wrote: »

Would extension rebellion accept that it would be okay to take direct action against them if you do not agree with them ?

No, you would be violating their safe space.

Geuze

bubblypop wrote: »

Hopefully not.
Taxing people in Ireland will have no effect on climate change.

Increasing carbon taxes is sensible, as is removing average workers from the 50% marginal tax rate.

I say keep increasing the carbon tax, massively improve public transport, and start the 50% tax rate at 90-100k.

Geuze

Hector Savage wrote: »

Why is overpopulation never mentioned ?
That's the elephant in the room - fix overpopulation and climate change will take care of itself.

It is a long term solution of course.

Fertility rates have fallen all over the rich world.

suicide_circus

Geuze wrote: »

Increasing carbon taxes is sensible, as is removing average workers from the 50% marginal tax rate.

I say keep increasing the carbon tax, massively improve public transport, and start the 50% tax rate at 90-100k.

yeah you would need to offset carbon taxes in some way like that. but then how are we paying for the day to day social services. I suppose those will need to take a hit too.

Wanderer78

Thelonious Monk wrote:

But there will always be richer people, no matter how much tax they pay. If it hurts the poor more so be it, no one is going to starve in Ireland any time soon. Our idea of homeless here is living for free in a hotel ffs. Unless it’s communism you want, which would be great if it worked imo.

Go live in a hotel for 'free' for a while, and see what happens to you, and for added bonus, we ll just give you the dole!

Micky 32

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Your not going to win any elections by driving the price of flights through the roof.

That itself would be political suicide lol

MrMusician18

Extinction rebellion would be much easier to get behind if they were honest about their goals i.e. a reduction of living standards across the board.

Personally, I find it hard to be lectured on environmental matters by the coffee cup carrying, two foreign holidays a year middle class protestors that are attracted to these movements.

blinding

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

No, you would be violating their safe space.

What if I consider they are violating my safe space ?

average_runner

Geuze wrote: »

Increasing carbon taxes is sensible, as is removing average workers from the 50% marginal tax rate.

I say keep increasing the carbon tax, massively improve public transport, and start the 50% tax rate at 90-100k.

Increasing carbon tax increases the cost of public transport.

Beechwoodspark

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Extinction rebellion would be much easier to get behind if they were honest about their goals i.e. a reduction of living standards across the board.

Personally, I find it hard to be lectured on environmental matters by the coffee cup carrying, two foreign holidays a year middle class protestors that are attracted to these movements.

Sorry but when you see the enormity of the climate change problem then “economic growth” is an outdated concept. Living standards if you mean by that things like cheapo Ryan air flights etc then yes living standards will be falling like a rock in the next few years.

Wanderer78

Thelonious Monk wrote:

But there will always be richer people, no matter how much tax they pay. If it hurts the poor more so be it, no one is going to starve in Ireland any time soon. Our idea of homeless here is living for free in a hotel ffs. Unless it’s communism you want, which would be great if it worked imo.

I will disagree though, I can't see communism solving these issues, and our current version of capatalism for that matter, I do like the sound of 'progressive capatalism' though

suicide_circus

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry but when you see the enormity of the climate change problem then “economic growth” is an outdated concept. Living standards if you mean by that things like cheapo Ryan air flights etc then yes living standards will be falling like a rock in the next few years.

no they wont. not without abandoning democracy.

MrMusician18

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry but when you see the enormity of the climate change problem then “economic growth” is an outdated concept. Living standards if you mean by that things like cheapo Ryan air flights etc then yes living standards will be falling like a rock in the next few years.

An outdated concept that has lifted billions out of poverty?

Don't get me wrong, I recognise change is coming, but there is more than a whiff of hypocrisy coming from this movement. Individuals have no problem telling others what to do, not least denying the poor the luxuries they have themselves become accustomed to. Yet do not live by the same standards they process themselves?

HorrorScope

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry but when you see the enormity of the climate change problem then “economic growth” is an outdated concept. Living standards if you mean by that things like cheapo Ryan air flights etc then yes living standards will be falling like a rock in the next few years.

And it’s opinions like these which are the end of the road as far as majority acceptance of this stupid movement will go. Why should anybody bother working anymore when everything is overpriced out of reach and the prospect of getting a holiday anymore will seem like a distant memory?

You have a disconnect with reality if you think that will ever be acceptable.

Wanderer78

MrMusician18 wrote:

An outdated concept that has lifted billions out of poverty?

Lifted billions out of food insecurity, but sent billions into debt poverty, go humans!

MrMusician18

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Lifted billions out of food insecurity, but sent billions into debt poverty, go humans!

And increasing consumption based taxes is going to change that?

suicide_circus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Lifted billions out of food insecurity, but sent billions into debt poverty, go humans!

would you rather be in debt or dead?

Wanderer78

MrMusician18 wrote:

And increasing consumption based taxes is going to change that?

No I'm not convinced that this carbon tax is gonna solve the problem, but since I know fcuk all about it, I ll give it a chance

blinding

suicide_circus wrote: »

would you rather be in debt or dead?

Dead people never complain .

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote:

would you rather be in debt or dead?

Neither of course, but there is something seriously wrong with our money and credit creation systems