Extinction Rebellion Ireland

Niallof9

So the Dail open day was cancelled due to this. How many kids (like my daughter who was going) might have got a taste of history and politics, possibly igniting interest in getting involved.

The whole thing a bit of a damp squib.

We need education, education and education. Roll out Cosmos, our planet, fast food nation, on repeat in schools.

Pa ElGrande

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Not really sure how we have got onto eugenics. Presumably any population control that is countenanced here would be via choice and birth control. Not that most environmentalists talk much about population.

They do discuss population control using euphemisms like birthstrike and empowering women. Birth strike does not preclude engaging in unprotected sex and abortion is not a choice for the innocents who are slaughtered in the process. Ultimately as far as environmentalists like Chris Packham are concerned the wrong people are having babies. It is noticeable that he does not call for an equivalent standard of living such as enjoyed by many women across the world when this has been the essential precursor to political rights and education for women in the society from which he originates.

The irony is, this is a global problem with the most local solution of all. You see most of us, certainly, most readers of this article decide, how many people there are on this planet. Very sadly that choice is not global yet; an estimated two hundred million women worldwide cannot access the family planning they need. But the rest of us can help put that injustice right. But let’s be clear, this isn’t just about putting contraceptives in people’s hands. Helping women empower themselves through political rights, economic support, and essentially, education enables them to choose smaller families – and whenever they have those opportunities, that is exactly what they do.

source

What good is education as envisaged by environmentalists when the skills learned cannot be deployed because the infrastructure does not exist to use those skills? How about supplying those women he talks about with washing machines and freeing up their time to learn instead of subsistence survival?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

They do discuss population control using euphemisms like birthstrike and empowering women. Birth strike does not preclude engaging in unprotected sex and abortion is not a choice for the innocents who are slaughtered in the process.

I had to stop there. Who is getting slaughtered in the process of other people choosing not to bring children into the world?

Calhoun

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we were to reduce population yes some old people may have to struggle a bit with not much pension. Do people expect all our problems to be solved without any inconvenience or graft? The loony right's fear of any kind of hardship is hilarious. Oooh less meat less flying less buying rubbish how would you all cope...

I don't think any person on this thread who supports measures to improve the environment but doesn't align with more extreme views thinks there wont be hard decisions and inconvenience. I assume your an intolerant hardliner with all that talk of looney right? Your opinion is correct and the only thing people should consider?

Population reduction though has bigger societal links, China's one child policy was not a success and resulted in allot of girls being thrown away essentially. The older grey vote has a big voice so future governments unless autocratic will struggle.

The natural outcome will be to do like Germany are doing and shore up your aging population with immigration but that presents more problems overall to society.

Calhoun

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Oh, that’s alright so. Anyway the way to reduce population is to reduce immigration as mostly the birth rates are static.



Well the poor worse than the rich, for sure. Which is a problem with carbon taxes, which are regressive taxes. It’s also a form of austerity.

Carbon taxes have their place in changing behaviour from carbon to non carbon sources, but there needs to be an alternative.

Indeed if we control our birthrates as a country but don't do anything internationally then you are not solving it. Worst case scenario is your replacing more tolerant and environmentally focused with others that may not think that way.

Bingo the poor are the ones who will be impacted the most as they don't have easy alternatives. We would have to build out a model of social housing that came with like near passive rating and all electic heating to even come close.

Thelonious Monk

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think any person on this thread who supports measures to improve the environment but doesn't align with more extreme views thinks there wont be hard decisions and inconvenience. I assume your an intolerant hardliner with all that talk of looney right? Your opinion is correct and the only thing people should consider?

Population reduction though has bigger societal links, China's one child policy was not a success and resulted in allot of girls being thrown away essentially. The older grey vote has a big voice so future governments unless autocratic will struggle.

The natural outcome will be to do like Germany are doing and shore up your aging population with immigration but that presents more problems overall to society.

Yes, there'll be no population reduction policies any time soon. If our own birthrate in Ireland slows down, and I'm pretty sure it's one of the highest in Europe, immigration will take care of the rest of the required population. So there's not really much point discussing it, it goes against exponential growth which is every governments policy.

Pa ElGrande

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I had to stop there. Who is getting slaughtered in the process of other people choosing not to bring children into the world?

Are you going to recycle the argument that unborn babies are not really human that they are the untermensch or to to use todays politically correct vernacular the foetus and therefore undeserving of the right to life. To attempt to justify abortion because the weather might get warmer or stormier in future is a gross fabrication and is attempting to seek justification by other means for your own selfish actions today.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Are you going to recycle the argument that unborn babies are not really human that they are the untermensch or to to use todays politically correct vernacular the foetus and therefore undeserving of the right to life. To attempt to justify abortion because the weather might get warmer or stormier in future is a gross fabrication and is attempting to seek justification by other means for your own selfish actions today.

I think if this thread is to remain sane we should stay away from abortion.

I did look at that link to Stuart Basden’s scribblings and indeed his rhetoric is unhelpful.

Associations like that - the crazed far left - are bad news for environmentalism.

Pa ElGrande

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I think if this thread is to remain sane we should stay away from abortion.

I did look at that link to Stuart Basden’s scribblings and indeed his rhetoric is unhelpful.

Associations like that - the crazed far left - are bad news for environmentalism.

Probably. Abortion remains contentious and is subject of another thread so I'll park it there for now.

The problem when you look at what led to the mass slaughters of the 20th century the ideologies had been built up since the 19th century and synthesised under the regimes under Stalin, Hitler, Mao an Pol Pot led to mass death and impoverishment.

My view is that extinction rebellion is developing the ground work for another iteration of the same events, at its core it is anti-human and it is looking for another dictator to take it to the next level and given the right circumstances it will metastasise into a frightful killing machine.

Calhoun

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes, there'll be no population reduction policies any time soon. If our own birthrate in Ireland slows down, and I'm pretty sure it's one of the highest in Europe, immigration will take care of the rest of the required population. So there's not really much point discussing it, it goes against exponential growth which is every governments policy.

Yah agreed its pretty much a deflection topic when it is discussed. We are far from it, if we were talking about a wider philosophical discussion we could go into the details on how to do it.

Allot more has to come in between that and society needs to understand the impact of the changes it wants to implement.

blinding

lleti wrote: »

Strong words from Mannix Flynn.





https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/i-am-mannix-flynn-i-am-62-i-have-come-through-poverty-prison-abuse-you-name-it-1.4043696

The Working Class have worked out that Mass immigration is not in their interests or in the interests of their Environment .

The Working Class were supposed to suck up Mass Immigration regardless of the consequences for them . You can’t fool all the people all the time .

Beechwoodspark

cnocbui wrote: »

No they aren't, they are taxes on life in a cold climate. Heating kerosene just went up with a thump. All that does is extract even more tax from me I shouldn't have to pay. I'm not going to shiver through winter as an alternative.

You don’t have to shiver. Upgrade to an energy efficient house/office. There’s plenty of options there. And as well the auld wooly jumper is a solution low tech yes but effective

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You don’t have to shiver. Upgrade to an energy efficient house/office. There’s plenty of options there. And as well the auld wooly jumper is a solution low tech yes but effective

What about the carbon footprint of that wooly jumper..you do realise how much sheep fart?..

cnocbui

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You don’t have to shiver. Upgrade to an energy efficient house/office. There’s plenty of options there. And as well the auld wooly jumper is a solution low tech yes but effective

You are full of it. It's the f*n greenie magic wand argument again. Just pull half a million euros that you don't have, out of your arse, and hey presto, problem solved. You do know that the cost of building to passive housing standards is double to triple the cost? I already maintain my house at a near chilly 19° C and wear warm clothing most of the year.

Are you the 20-something arch hypocrite I imagine or are you actually rich and old enough you live in a building built to passive standards?

Pa ElGrande

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You don’t have to shiver. Upgrade to an energy efficient house/office. There’s plenty of options there. And as well the auld wooly jumper is a solution low tech yes but effective

It must be wonderful that you can upgrade to an energy efficient house just like that meanwhile, Bob Cratchit and myself will be trying to snag a woolly jumper at a charity shop for the Winter.

Thelonious Monk

how would fairies like you have survived in your parents youth with no central heating?

lleti

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

how would fairies like you have survived in your parents youth with no central heating?

Burnt tonnes of turf.

Pa ElGrande

lleti wrote: »

Burnt tonnes of turf.

And if it wasn't for climate change there would be no bog and it all it needed was human ingenuity to turn it into a fuel source and complete the carbon cycle to maintain life on earth. Imagine if we had left the bogs alone sequestering all that carbon, the planet would eventually have starved from lack of carbon dioxide in the air. It's like mother nature put us on this island for just that purpose.

cnocbui

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

how would fairies like you have survived in your parents youth with no central heating?

Near freeze to death and get sick a lot. My mother told me stories of surviving the war years in Dublin. People went to bed wearing full sets of clothing and they still froze. Turf being brought in from the countryside was paid for by weight, so the loaded carts would stop before being weighed and the load would be thoroughly saturated with water. She was so put off by it all she emigrated and went to live in hot climates for the rest of her life.

Calhoun

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You don’t have to shiver. Upgrade to an energy efficient house/office. There’s plenty of options there. And as well the auld wooly jumper is a solution low tech yes but effective

Bringing a building up to an A rating can be quite expensive, also from speaking with some construction engineers its not easy to apply for the grants they have in place either.

If your an older person living in a house built 20-30 years ago you have no option. If your living in rented accommodation or one of the few council houses you wont be able to upgrade.

As long as we as society are going to make it easy for people to adopt green measures then there is no problem. If not all you do is fuel the black market.

blinding

cnocbui wrote: »

Near freeze to death and get sick a lot. My mother told me stories of surviving the war years in Dublin. People went to bed wearing full sets of clothing and they still froze. Turf being brought in from the countryside was paid for by weight, so the loaded carts would stop before being weighed and the load would be thoroughly saturated with water. She was so put off by it all she emigrated and went to live in hot climates for the rest of her life.

At least the World Climate is warming now . No need to move now .

cnocbui

blinding wrote: »

At least the World Climate is warming now . No need to move now .

Not enough for me, I'm off as soon as can be arranged.

blinding

cnocbui wrote: »

Not enough for me, I'm off as soon as can be arranged.

Private Jet .

Burty330

Its not about wearing wooly jumpers , its about putting an end to mass suffering and slaughter of innocent animals.

Member when your daddy took you by your hand and brought you for a tour of his work place? Come , let me take you for a tour through the animal slaughter houses. Come watch what you stuff into your beaks every day get mangled to death on an industrial level scale.

Ive written a letter to Leo Vadcar encouraging him to ban the sale of meat products or at the least , sale it back 80%. ..Whats that m8?? What about the butchers? What about the piggery?
You tell me what about the piggerys , then ill tell you what about the butchers. k?

We can still be fish farmers and one day we will be , whether you like it or not.

Plumbthedepths

Burty330 wrote: »

Its not about wearing wooly jumpers , its about putting an end to mass suffering and slaughter of innocent animals.

Member when your daddy took you by your hand and brought you for a tour of his work place? Come , let me take you for a tour through the animal slaughter houses. Come watch what you stuff into your beaks every day get mangled to death on an industrial level scale.

Ive written a letter to Leo Vadcar encouraging him to ban the sale of meat products or at the least , sale it back 80%. ..Whats that m8?? What about the butchers? What about the piggery?
You tell me what about the piggerys , then ill tell you what about the butchers. k?

We can still be fish farmers and one day we will be , whether you like it or not.

The above is why most think members of ER are 'loons'.

Dr. Bre

Anarchy is what they want

blueshade

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The above is why most think members of ER are 'loons'.

To an extent he has a point. I'm not saying ban meat, I'm not saying ration the amount. I'm saying that we eat too much meat. Everything in moderation but there are still a lot of people eating meat 3 times a day every day. Most people have no idea where their food comes from, how it's produced or what kind of treatment animals receive. The reality is that we don't like to think about slaughter houses. Perhaps if people did know the reality they might eat less of it.

People choose quantity/low prices over quality. I certainly don't believe in live exports and especially not the shipping of live bull calves to Libya where they will be hung by a back leg, have their leg muscles slashed and then have their throats slit, that's what Halal slaughter is. Often it takes 2 attempts before the animal dies. That's if they survive the shipping to Libya where they will be crowded into a cramped environment standing in their own urine and faeces and breathing it in. Remember that whenever you buy anything in Subway, all their meat and poultry is Halal.

Plumbthedepths

blueshade wrote: »

To an extent he has a point. I'm not saying ban meat, I'm not saying ration the amount. I'm saying that we eat too much meat. Everything in moderation but there are still a lot of people eating meat 3 times a day every day. Most people have no idea where their food comes from, how it's produced or what kind of treatment animals receive. The reality is that we don't like to think about slaughter houses. Perhaps if people did know the reality they might eat less of it.

People choose quantity/low prices over quality. I certainly don't believe in live exports and especially not the shipping of live bull calves to Libya where they will be hung by a back leg, have their leg muscles slashed and then have their throats slit, that's what Halal slaughter is. Often it takes 2 attempts before the animal dies. That's if they survive the shipping to Libya where they will be crowded into a cramped environment standing in their own urine and faeces and breathing it in. Remember that whenever you buy anything in Subway, all their meat and poultry is Halal.

I have a particular loathing for militant vegans, I also dislike animal cruelty but when I have someone attempting to dictate my diet I switch off. Actually i'm aware how animals are processed in Ireland I have no interest in the behaviour of other countries behaviour either cultural or religious slaughter of animals. Animal welfare in the slaughterhouses here is very high.

Hal3000

I see what XR are trying to do, but they’re going about it the totally wrong way. All this doomsday stuff doesn’t work ! Put yourself in a non environmentally focused persons shoes. If we’re all screwed , then why would they care ? The key to this mess is convincing joe public to do the right thing. Look at it as a drug addiction. Get people to slowly reduce the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to. For example: use less plastic, reduce air travel, take the train - bus every now and again, reuse and buy secondhand, reduce meat in take, vote in green candidates etc. This won’t work for everyone, but imagine if half our world paid attention and did even one of these things ?If XR members are concerned with the bigger picture, then take up an environmental studies course, join a political party, or set up one and try to change the system from within, start looking for solutions to problems as a collective. Just stop prancing around Merrion Square and kidding yourselves that you’re making a difference. You’re not.

blueshade

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Anarchy is what they want

The guy who founded the whole thing is a failed organic farmer and has been very clear that anarchy and the other throw of government is what his ultimate agenda is. Teenagers and kids are being sucked into this crap and told that the world is going to end and everyone is going to die in 12 years time. In 20 years time this guy is going to be even richer and living in some nice remote off the grid area laughing his ass off at the gullibility of so many people.