Extinction Rebellion Ireland

AlphabetCards

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Having a quiet chuckle to myself here reading the responses to that report.

Ppl attempting to deflect through comedy

Guys and girls I suggest reading up a bit on climate science and the huge challenges we face.

Then after a sobering cup of coffee have a read up on the solutions that are being proposed.

It’s not all bad news is what I am saying.

You could hit emissions right in the cajones by cutting out coffee consumption.

Thelonious Monk

Gannicus wrote: »

<-- Okay so we all go vegan, we ban the sale and breeding of livestock for consumption. Then we move directly to vegan friendly farming. Watch as the tree coverage all over Ireland declines further again in order to allow for more farm land for crops. then we see animals being displaced from their homes as a result. Rivers being leached to irrigate land, soil erosion tearing up layer after layer of top soil until in becomes uncultivatable from crop harvesting. Wildlife being meshed up in treshers/harvesters. Natural nutrients being drained rom the land due to crop growth.

lol, nearly all our land is to grow food for cows already, and we export 90% of the beef and dairy we produce. So we aren't even feeding ourselves.

This happy image might help






If we all went vegan, we'd have far more land to give back to nature. That's not going to happen though, but producing less beef and dairy would help our environment alright.

Robert_Beach

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we all went vegan, we'd have far more land to give back to nature. That's not going to happen though, but producing less beef and dairy would help our environment alright.

Never say never. Societal norms, can and do, change. Add in some government help i.e. make meat farming/eating much more expensive (or in other words make the producers and consumers absorb the real cost of their choice) and I think we can successfully get a lot of rural Ireland back.

A governmental buying scheme for farms to rewild would help too.

AlphabetCards

Robert_Beach wrote: »

Never say never. Societal norms, can and do, change. Add in some government help i.e. make meat farming/eating much more expensive (or in other words make the producers and consumers absorb the real cost of their choice) and I think we can successfully get a lot of rural Ireland back.

A governmental buying scheme for farms to rewild would help too.

If you wish for rewilding to occur, keep government out of it. See; cash for ash.

Robert_Beach

AlphabetCards wrote: »

If you wish for rewilding to occur, keep government out of it. See; cash for ash.

Ah I dunno, I tend to think that that the re-wilding should be fine but it's only part of it. Obviously we'll need government departments/projects looking after the rehousing of former rural dwellers, bringing transport etc and stuff up to scratch in the cities. Our EU partners can help out with this, we're not the first country to embark on this path.

Plumbthedepths

Robert_Beach wrote: »

Ah I dunno, I tend to think that that the re-wilding should be fine but it's only part of it. Obviously we'll need government departments/projects looking after the rehousing of former rural dwellers, bringing transport etc and stuff up to scratch in the cities. Our EU partners can help out with this, we're not the first country to embark on this path.

Rehousing rural dwellers? Are you suggesting the forcible relocation of people?

Robert_Beach

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Rehousing rural dwellers? Are you suggesting the forcible relocation of people?

As said, as meat becomes unprofitable you'll have vast farms coming up for sale. Also maybe some CPOs. Let's see what makes sense.

I really hope people read up on it more, I don't think I can fully do it justice e.g. from here - https://greennews.ie/rewilding-ireland-nature/

And this is good news for landowners – rewilding has enormous employment opportunities and is a chance to reverse rural decline. Another big objection is that rewilding is the opposite of farming and that its proponents want to see swathes of the country ‘abandoned’.

Yes, farm animals, and sheep, in particular, will need to be removed from large areas, especially in the uplands. But our landscape is diverse enough so that this would not exclude small-scale farmers producing, say, high-end organic beef, artisanal dairy products or honey.

Rewildling can exist – as it does in many European countries – in a mosaic with these small producers. And, of course, ‘real’ rewildling would be a boon for tourism.

I think that with the right incentives for landowners – such as paying farmers for not farming certain areas – in combination with rewilding public land and expanding national parks through land buyouts, we can see how this would work on the ground.

This will include establishing plans to reintroduce all of the plants and animals we have driven to extinction among them cranes, sturgeon and bitterns but also wolves and bears.

We need a new relationship with nature and rewildling shows us the path we can take.

While it is an essential step if we are to address our climate and biodiversity emergencies, it is also a wonderful opportunity for us to engage with all the amazing gifts which nature has to offer.

It’s also for everyone, no matter where you live, as well as for all the generations which are to come – what an antidote to the ecological mess we are currently faced with!

Plumbthedepths

Robert_Beach wrote: »

As said, as meat becomes unprofitable you'll have vast farms coming up for sale. Also maybe some CPOs. Let's see what makes sense.

I really hope people read up on it more, I don't think I can fully do it justice e.g. from here - https://greennews.ie/rewilding-ireland-nature/

Do I need to repeat the question or are you refusing to answer it?

weldoninhio

Robert_Beach wrote: »

As said, as meat becomes unprofitable you'll have vast farms coming up for sale. Also maybe some CPOs. Let's see what makes sense.

I really hope people read up on it more, I don't think I can fully do it justice e.g. from here - https://greennews.ie/rewilding-ireland-nature/

Wolves and bears :p:p:p:p:p:p

Thankfully the lunatics will never get to run the asylum.

Robert_Beach

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do I need to repeat the question or are you refusing to answer it?

It's a leading question, designed to get an alarmist response to the answer.

Presently, does the government forcibly rehouse people?
In a way, by CPO, yes it does "force" people to move and live somewhere else.

Will this happen in the future?
Yes, undoubtly.

Will CPOs be part of a re-wilding?
Possibly, I'd imagine so.

ToBeFrank123

The next round of EU CAP payments should be tailored to encourage environmental concerns.

Farmers should be encouraged to move away from beef farming which is in any case loss making and into something more positive.

Robert_Beach

weldoninhio wrote: »

Wolves and bears :p:p:p:p:p:p

Thankfully the lunatics will never get to run the asylum.

Carnivores/Predators are an essential part of re-wilding, to keep the animals under control.

Plumbthedepths

Robert_Beach wrote: »

It's a leading question, designed to get an alarmist response to the answer.

Presently, does the government forcibly rehouse people?
In a way, by CPO, yes it does "force" people to move and live somewhere else.

Will this happen in the future?
Yes, undoubtly.

Will CPOs be part of a re-wilding?
Possibly, I'd imagine so.

No problem, not surprised you are unwilling to answer. I'll answer some of your nonsense. Firstly CPO won't work in the way you suggest as it goes against the purpose of a CPO is designed for. Will it happen in the future answer is NO , reason being apart from yourself no political party or politician would be stupid enough to introduce a referendum to extinguish property brights from the constitution.
Any other idiocy you wish to promote?

Robert_Beach

I have answered your question. Natural wastage (i.e. farmers packing it in) and expanding natural parks via CPOs.

I dunno about you, but I wouldn't fancy living in my one off house if bears and wolves and deer and all other animals are being re-introduced and the roads gotten rid of in my area. But sure stick around if you want.

Robert_Beach

Plumbthedepths

Robert_Beach wrote: »

I have answered your question. Natural wastage (i.e. farmers packing it in) and expanding natural parks via CPOs.

I dunno about you, but I wouldn't fancy living in my one off house if bears and wolves and deer and all other animals are being re-introduced and the roads gotten rid of in my area. But sure stick around if you want.

You didn't answer, if you think that bears and wolves are going to be reintroduced you are more deluded than that idiot Ryan of the Green party.

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I don’t consider myself a begrudger type at all but yes I do cringe when I hear or see ppl going on silly “on a whim” budget flights.

There’s NO need for it unless ppl are prepared to pay a proper substantial green levy for each flight.

Same with big engine petrol or diesel cars. I’m ok with them once ppl are ok with substantial taxes on them.

There is a sweet spot win win in this if ppl are willing to accept the quid pro quo.

Like i said it’s never going to happen. I’m in the USA at the moment and it’s actuallly the cheapest flight i have had in the 13 years i fly here 2/3 times a year.

Why do you think the government didn’t target flying even though they declared their so called “ climate emergency”? They aren’t stupid enough to do that.

Ah so you are ok with people flying everywhere once they pay a green tax? Do you work in government by any chance?

Micky 32

mgn wrote: »

When are people going to cop on to these clowns in government.
Everyday the come up with something to deflect attention away for their incompetence, what's on the front pages of newspapers today, 25c levey on a coffee cup instead of the 700 hundred people lying on trolleys,
It's the same thing everyday,climate this climate that,shower of clowns.

They are cashing in on the hysteria nothing more, thankfully i don’t drink cups of coffee outside of home so they won’t make a cent off me.

Thelonious Monk

Micky 32 wrote: »

They are cashing in on the hysteria nothing more, thankfully i don’t drink cups of coffee outside of home so they won’t make a cent off me.

Maybe they are, but we go through something like 200 million coffee cups a year in Ireland. That's just ridiculous. And those compostable ones aren't even that compostable, and still have to be produced out of something. I love coffee but do we really need to be getting take away coffee all the time? We didn't need this until recently. So look at the positive side, if it encourages more bring your own cup and less waste behaviour, with the money it brings in being put into other green projects, it's a win win, except the afraid of change snowflakes may have to cut down on their take away coffees.

Micky 32

Robert_Beach wrote: »

We'll see. You're living in a dream world if you think things can continue on like this. Listen imagine you're currently living in a one-off house near Galway. After getting battered by the 5th cat 3 hurricane, you might have no choice but to move to somewhere that's prepared for that. When bitter Canadian style winters start to hit, see how long you last a big drive from even the nearest newsagent. Good luck.

Actually our weather is better than it has been say in the 60’s. The highest wind speed was recorded back then, there was more storms, snow and hotter summers back then. Talk to anyone in their 70’s they will tell you the same so stop talking sh*te

Gannicus

Reclaiming all that land for farming is grand in theory, but it does and will have inherent problems down the line

just look to the UK our nearest neighbours for proof of this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28003435

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/arable-land-soil-food-security-shortage

It also makes me concerned that if temperatures are rising and we have more of these drought warnings that we may create our own version of the US Dustbowl from farming due to ploughing and harvesting of crops leading to soil erosion

https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/dust-bowl

ToBeFrank123

Micky 32 wrote: »

Like i said it’s never going to happen. I’m in the USA at the moment and it’s actuallly the cheapest flight i have had in the 13 years i fly here 2/3 times a year.

Why do you think the government didn’t target flying even though they declared their so called “ climate emergency”? They aren’t stupid enough to do that.

Ah so you are ok with people flying everywhere once they pay a green tax? Do you work in government by any chance?

Our government don't target flying and they don't target agriculture and in fact have encouraged a growth in both sectors.

They have targeted ordinary workers commuting to work with a carbon tax, while providing little alternatives.

They have also encouraged a huge rise in the locating of companies in places like the Silicon Docks forcing even longer and longer commutes for workers.

Their words say one thing, their actions say the opposite.

Overall they are no more serious about tackling climate change than Donald Trump. At least Trump is up front about not giving a damn.

Thelonious Monk

Gannicus wrote: »

Reclaiming all that land for farming is grand in theory, but it does and will have inherent problems down the line

just look to the UK our nearest neighbours for proof of this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28003435

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/arable-land-soil-food-security-shortage

It also makes me concerned that if temperatures are rising and we have more of these drought warnings that we may create our own version of the US Dustbowl from farming due to ploughing and harvesting of crops leading to soil erosion

https://www.history.com/topics/great-depression/dust-bowl

But this land isn't used to feed us, nearly all of it is exported.

Gannicus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But this land isn't used to feed us, nearly all of it is exported.

I accept that statement, but on those grounds do we still need to revert to solely arable farming which is causing this issue elsewhere. This will replace one large problem with potentially a larger problem when land starts to become unusable as crop farming land, and we have to expand out further and further eventually leading to a potential issue with further deforestation or moving the populous of an area, on our island; whether we use it exclusively for feeding our own inhabitants or even if we export it because globally we are no longer consuming livestock and its other products, dairy etc.


Can I just point out I am not arguing about the level of what we export in terms of meat dairy etc. I am merely and sincerely concerned that, by another method of usage, we will end up destroying the land that people are claiming to want to save .

Beechwoodspark

Robert_Beach wrote: »

Carnivores/Predators are an essential part of re-wilding, to keep the animals under control.

I’ve already strenuously argued for wolves to be reintroduced on this thread and others only to be ridiculed for even suggesting it! Some ppl just do not want to think outside the box on these issues.

Thelonious Monk

Gannicus wrote: »

I accept that statement, but on those grounds do we still need to revert to solely arable farming which is causing this issue elsewhere. This will replace one large problem with potentially a larger problem when land starts to become unusable as crop farming land, and we have to expand out further and further eventually leading to a potential issue with further deforestation or moving the populous of an area, on our island; whether we use it exclusively for feeding our own inhabitants or even if we export it because globally we are no longer consuming livestock and its other products, dairy etc.


Can I just point out I am not arguing about the level of what we export in terms of meat dairy etc. I am merely and sincerely concerned that, by another method of usage, we will end up destroying the land that people are claiming to want to save .

Right but we could use far far far less of the world to produce food if we ate less meat. Some may be destroyed, I don't know, but nowhere near the scale of damage that animal farming does. Everything has an impact, it's about minimising.

Gannicus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Right but we could use far far far less of the world to produce food if we ate less meat. Some may be destroyed, I don't know, but nowhere near the scale of damage that animal farming does. Everything has an impact, it's about minimising.

Some will be destroyed then we move on and destroy somewhere else and this cycle continues. At what point then in another generation or 2 do we then hold our hands up and say "or grandparents etc fecked up by telling us to do this"

If that article I linked is correct and it takes 500 years to replace 2.5cm of topsoil then how long before we start a shortage of arable land given at present there is 7 billion people on the planet (in ever increasing) and we slowly start to starve the world by another method.

They reckon each person needs .5 an acre of arable land each to survive on purely just crops. But then we have to look at what crops can/can't be grown in certain areas, will the foods we eat require us to eat more grains, veg etc so that we have the right vitamins and minerals that are bio-available in order to replace whats bio-available in meat dairy honey etc. (https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/how-much-land-is-needed-to-be-self-sufficient)

Just look at the levels of protein per 100g of these foods for example (source https://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/the-basics-proteins)

White rice, cooked 2.6
Pasta, cooked 7.7
White bread 7.9
Semi-skimmed milk 3.4
Cheddar cheese 25.4
Poached egg 12.5
Rump steak, grilled 31.0
Peanuts 25.6

I'm genuinely asking here. This is not taking a stab but is it really sustainable and healthwise beneficial to move to a 100% vegan lifestyle, as a way of saving the climate and mankind? Lets face it if we go extinct tomorrow the planet will survive and something else may flourish. It just doesn't add up for me to do so if you look at that just being protein then take into account all the vitamins and minerals we need (on a RDA basis) to be healthy as well.

There is so many negatives with what the "green side" propose to be solutions to our climate problems that we don't have nearly enough info to execute something fool proof.

is_that_so

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve already strenuously argued for wolves to be reintroduced on this thread and others only to be ridiculed for even suggesting it! Some ppl just do not want to think outside the box on these issues.

You haven't been ridiculed. You've been shown why it's not feasible, something you clearly continue to ignore.

Wibbs

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve already strenuously argued for wolves to be reintroduced on this thread and others only to be ridiculed for even suggesting it! Some ppl just do not want to think outside the box on these issues.

And some people have simply zero bloody clue about what they're proposing. A wolf could travel from Dublin to Galway in under a week. They won't obediently stay in some area and you can't fence them in unless you also remove all the housing and roads in the area. Even where they occur naturally in Europe they're squeezed into smaller areas and those areas are a helluva lot "wilder" than anywhere in Ireland. Reintroducing an apex predator that is capable of taking down prey larger than themselves and capable of and driven to travelling large distances into small areas incapable of sustaining them is beyond retarded. This isn't some Disney flic here.

Robert_Beach

https://www.thejournal.ie/coffee-cups-levy-4879620-Nov2019/

A levy of 25c on coffee cups is coming. Not the best but a start. I would prefer to see a levy of E1 or more to actually make a difference.