Woman shot & killed in Derry being treated as a terrorist incident MOD WARNING IN OP

TomasMacR

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm sure the North must have different parade rules.

Different rules? Is that tongue in cheek? They’ve an entire regulatory body called the parades commission set up as part of the GFA to deal with the nonsense they get up to up in their ‘parades’.

Spanish Eyes

It really has all opened up now. The simmering pot has boiled over.

Honestly, how anyone could try to justify this killing as a stray bullet meant for others is really beyond me.

NI will never be OK I think. But it was doing alright for the last twenty odd years. What happened to change that? Does anyone know?

Junkyard Tom

TomasMacR wrote: »

Different rules? Is that tongue in cheek? They’ve an entire regulatory body called the parades commission set up as part of the GFA to deal with the nonsense they get up to up in their ‘parades’.

I'd hazard a guess NIMAN is all too aware of that but the question is if parading/marching is a right then how does the Parades Commission prevent marching?

Also, I'm wondering if we could have prevented today's march in Dublin by doing something similar to what the Parades commission does.

gooch2k9

Was a road actually closed for this?

I'm all for allowing them march(for reasons stated previously regarding the impact on legitimate causes by bans), but what right do they have to close a public thoroughfare. Let them go gather in a field somewhere.

Spanish Eyes

It was a murder by scrotes. Feck them, but many support them from the sidelines it seems for reasons they can only try to justify. Awful stuff really now.

May she rest in peace. I reckon she will be an icon for Peace eventually, bless her.

Raging_Ninja

NIMAN wrote: »

Agree that anyone ever charged with this killing will not be charged with murder.

Isn't murder premeditated? The gunman did try to murder policemen, but killed a bystander by mistake. That's manslaughter is it not?

He intended to kill somebody, just because some are trying to make out it was the "wrong" somebody (the cúnt fired into a crowd of people ffs) doesn't make it not murder and not premeditated.

RobMc59

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It was a murder by scrotes. Feck them, but many support them from the sidelines it seems for reasons they can only try to justify. Awful stuff really now.

May she rest in peace. I reckon she will be an icon for Peace eventually, bless her.

And hopefully the worldwide revulsion at this terrible crime will put an end to these tactics in future.

NasserShammaz

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess NIMAN is all too aware of that but the question is if parading/marching is a right then how does the Parades Commission prevent marching?

Also, I'm wondering if we could have prevented today's march in Dublin by doing something similar to what the Parades commission does.

Why stop them I watched them it was pitiful & embarrassing. A load of gob****s playing dress up and a load of tourist wondering what the **** was going on. If I was a member of the Irish army is be raging at the sight of these cowards posing as Irish soldiers. Let them march once a year and then **** off.

thomil

RobMc59 wrote: »

And hopefully the worldwide revulsion at this terrible crime will put an end to these tactics in future.

Dream on! Those lowlifes have no moral compass. They're not interested in how the world sees them, they're in it for the violence. In a way, the situation is similar to the Mexican drug cartels. With the leadership behind bars, dead, mellowed, or otherwise out of the picture, the second echelon have taken over, the enforcers, the thugs, the ones who don't care about the "business" but just love the brutality. And all the outcries in the world won't put a stop to these atrocities, these people only understand one language.

Spanish Eyes

thomil wrote: »

Dream on! Those lowlifes have no moral compass. They're not interested in how the world sees them, they're in it for the violence. In a way, the situation is similar to the Mexican drug cartels. With the leadership behind bars, dead, mellowed, or otherwise out of the picture, the second echelon have taken over, the enforcers, the thugs, the ones who don't care about the "business" but just love the brutality. And all the outcries in the world won't put a stop to these atrocities, these people only understand one language.

Quite a chilling post. But not too far wrong either IMO. The scrote element was always there and has now been re awakened. God help us all now. If God exists that is.

donkeykong5

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

thomil wrote: »

Dream on! Those lowlifes have no moral compass. They're not interested in how the world sees them, they're in it for the violence. In a way, the situation is similar to the Mexican drug cartels. With the leadership behind bars, dead, mellowed, or otherwise out of the picture, the second echelon have taken over, the enforcers, the thugs, the ones who don't care about the "business" but just love the brutality. And all the outcries in the world won't put a stop to these atrocities, these people only understand one language.

Quite a chilling post. But not too far wrong either IMO. The scrote element was always there and has now been re awakened. God help us all now. If God exists that is.

God does exist. Relax !

Spanish Eyes

donkeykong5 wrote: »

God does exist. Relax !

If there is a God, none of this would be happening. We would all be living in Nirvana, which is also a ridiculous concept

.G.

The absolute state of that rabble marching down O'Connell St like they've just filled their nappies. If we must allow them march let them at it but I wouldn't stop the traffic for them, let them dodge all the buses the knuckle dragging twats.

A national embarrassment that was today.

NasserShammaz

.G. wrote: »

The absolute state of that rabble marching down O'Connell St like they've just filled their nappies. If we must allow them march let them at it but I wouldn't stop the traffic for them, let them dodge all the buses the knuckle dragging twats.

A national embarrassment that was today.[/quote


aparently they have unfinished business from 1916....

Gonna do a nik nak on arlene fosters door or put a stink bomb in her letter box

janfebmar

Pythagorean wrote: »

If a PSNI officer had been killed, there would not have been anything like the outcry that ensued

A PSNI officer is still someones son, daughter, partner, parent or whatever. All human life is valuable. In some countries eg the United States, is not the murder of a police officer on or off-duty taken most seriously and thought of a direct attack on the crime-fighting ability of the state? There it is thought that the road towards a lawless society becomes complete when there is absolutely no respect for the state by ordinary citizens?

NIMAN

TomasMacR wrote: »

Different rules? Is that tongue in cheek? They’ve an entire regulatory body called the parades commission set up as part of the GFA to deal with the nonsense they get up to up in their ‘parades’.

No its not tongue in cheek.

I know all about the parades commission - thats why I said that the North would have different rules on parades taking place.

Spanish Eyes

Hopefully these murdering thugs will get back in their box now.

So sad for that woman and her family, partner and circle. RIP.

NIMAN

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

He intended to kill somebody, just because some are trying to make out it was the "wrong" somebody (the cúnt fired into a crowd of people ffs) doesn't make it not murder and not premeditated.

I hear you, I'm not arguing against the general consensus here. I would agree with the perpetrators doing 30 or 35 years for this, with no parole.

But unfortunately the law is the law, and I would say that any good barrister would have this guy charged with manslaughter rather than murder.

Them's the rules.

expectationlost

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately, they are allowed "peaceful" marches, under human rights laws. No permission is required when less than 5000 people march, according to what I have read. I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Personally, I'd prefer this particular group didn't march, but preventing them would set a nasty precedent for other, more acceptable group marches, and would also give them an excuse to play the victim, and possibly gather more followers, so, on that basis, as distasteful as I find it, I'm willing to tolerate it, - grudgingly.

yes they prefer to use the opportunity to gather identification on people involved.

Francie Barrett

Discodog wrote: »

Surely there is incitement as an offence.

Maybe the Guards are happy for them to come out into the open & be filmed & identified.

this sort of thing is an open goal for the guards to identify the people involved. I can guarantee that even our police force is on top of this.

NIMAN

With any luck, a feud within these new groups will begin and they'll wipe a lot of each other out.

FrancieBrady

NIMAN wrote: »

With any luck, a feud within these new groups will begin and they'll wipe a lot of each other out.

They aren't 'new' though and have been around in one form or another since the GFA.

Spanish Eyes

NIMAN wrote: »

With any luck, a feud within these new groups will begin and they'll wipe a lot of each other out.

Crossfire is the problem though. Innocents will be killed, just like the lady on Thursday.

There is no solution, some people are just rabid about the cause, or are just feral criminals anyway.

I hope there will be no repetition of this. May that woman RIP.

There is absolutely no justification for it from any quarter. Ever now.

rockatansky

NIMAN wrote: »

With any luck, a feud within these new groups will begin and they'll wipe a lot of each other out.

Probably not going to happen. This group seems to be based primarily in the north, while the previous groups had members in Dublin, Dundalk and Limerick. With little else to do with their time down here they fought amongst themselves to keep them occupied.

expectationlost

how active are they down here?

Harry Palmr

expectationlost wrote: »

how active are they down here?

Not very active as judged by this

NIMAN

They look like they'd be a lot of use in a real war.

gooch2k9

NIMAN wrote: »

They look like they'd be a lot of use in a real war.

They must have no self awareness wahtsoever. I'd be shamed going around like that!

JupiterKid

I'm pretty shocked at that march of dissident republican terrorists right down O'Connell Street yesterday. It's an utter disgrace and a direct affront to the partner and family of Lyra McKee.

I really fear that we might be witnessing a re-kindling of the Troubles. I sincerely hope not but the omens are not good. Another consequence of the madness that is Brexit and the prospect of a hard border. It is causing the simmering sectarian hatreds to come out of the woodwork.

Let Lyra McKee's senseless death not be in vain.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Sadly what we have to put up with to have an open society with free democracy.

I would say many people standing about watching would not have even make the connection with the march and what happened in Derry.

I think they would, Niman, but we can agree to differ on that.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I wonder how the Parades Commission works in the north if that applies.

I think we all know the parades commission was set up to deal with contentious parades as part of the GFA.
It's hard to know, from this side of the border, how neutral their decision making is. I've read several comments today, on social media and newspaper comments, where some people seem angry that the Easter Rising commemoration wasn't allowed to go ahead. Without knowing whether this was something most people in the area wanted, as opposed to the likes of what matched in O Connell St., it's very hard to make any kind of informed judgement on how such a march might have gone.

But, it's certainly something that needs to be looked at for next year, if theres a popular demand for it.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess NIMAN is all too aware of that but the question is if parading/marching is a right then how does the Parades Commission prevent marching?

Also, I'm wondering if we could have prevented today's march in Dublin by doing something similar to what the Parades commission does.

I don't know the answer to that, but wouldn't it be a wonderful gesture if the two communities could get together, and arrange a March celebrating the peace that the GFA has brought? Marches in the North are often contentious, because they celebrate only one tradition.
Maybe it's time to celebrate a shared tradition, - one that firmly renounces the violence?

Or, am I dreaming?

NIMAN

lochlach, it would be amazing to see such a march, but unlikely to happen.

Those pictures of O'Connell Street are mad.. Never expected to see something like that again.

veronymus

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

He intended to kill somebody, just because some are trying to make out it was the "wrong" somebody (the cúnt fired into a crowd of people ffs) doesn't make it not murder and not premeditated.

Premeditation is not a prerequisite for a murder charge in any event.

Hoboo

zapitastas wrote: »

Was the footage of her standing in a crowd from just before she was shot? If it was she was desperately unlucky. Apparently the bullet hit the van and then she was struck by the ricochet

I saw two videos. One of the guy shooting through railings, you could then hear screams in the distance. Other one was of 5-10.seconds after she was shot taken by someone right beside the police van. No way was it targeted, just a random shot in the darkness. Wrong place wrong time. Poor girl. If it was a direct aim and hit I don't know, the shooter didn't seem like a marksman.....with a handgun. Riot away but shooting into a crowd, ffs.

malinheader

Deleted User wrote: »

Those pictures of O'Connell Street are mad.. Never expected to see something like that again.

Great advertisement for tourists at Easter.
Is it just me or do the ones marching come across as a kind of oddball looking bunch.

NIMAN

zapitastas wrote: »

Was the footage of her standing in a crowd from just before she was shot? If it was she was desperately unlucky. Apparently the bullet hit the van and then she was struck by the ricochet

No, I think quite a few minutes at least passed before the shooting took place.

The large crowd in front of her in that photo dispersed.

lawred2

.G. wrote: »

The absolute state of that rabble marching down O'Connell St like they've just filled their nappies. If we must allow them march let them at it but I wouldn't stop the traffic for them, let them dodge all the buses the knuckle dragging twats.

A national embarrassment that was today.

One lad had a pair of tits. Hardly anything remotely resembling a 'soldier'... Man boys in fancy dress.

rockatansky

lawred2 wrote: »

One lad had a pair of tits. Hardly anything remotely resembling a 'soldier'... Man boys in fancy dress.

Is that not a young woman in the photo??

malinheader

rockatansky wrote: »

Is that not a young woman in the photo??

Hard to tell. You would need to do the crocodile Dundee move to be sure.

lawred2

rockatansky wrote: »

Is that not a young woman in the photo??

Either way.. poor specimen of humanity

Discodog

Francie Barrett wrote: »

this sort of thing is an open goal for the guards to identify the people involved. I can guarantee that even our police force is on top of this.

Maybe better to of arrested all of them at the start of their "march". It would of sent out a positive message & allowed the collection of data like photos, minus sunglasses, & DNA.

recedite

Discodog wrote: »

Maybe better to of arrested all of them at the start of their "march". It would of sent out a positive message & allowed the collection of data like photos, minus sunglasses, & DNA.

Maybe in an alternative universe. In this one you can't arrest people just for wearing combat trousers, forcibly take their mugshots and take samples of their DNA.

Discodog

recedite wrote: »

Maybe in an alternative universe. In this one you can't arrest people just for wearing combat trousers, forcibly take their mugshots and take samples of their DNA.

Yes I just read that, apparently, there aren't any incitement laws.

So the "new" IRA & Saoradh wouldn't be illegal organisations ?

Pity there was only one man brave enough to protest against them.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/republicans-stage-march-after-murder-38035393.html

Blowfish

expectationlost wrote: »

how active are they down here?

Not sure about other areas, but Saoradh have some sort of presence in Tallaght alright as they have been putting up posters/stickers around the place for the past few years and had put up a couple of banners over the past few weeks advertising the march yesterday.

It's hard to tell from that how many of them there are though, it could be a good few or could just as easily be a couple of loons.

recedite

Discodog wrote: »

Yes I just read that, apparently, there aren't any incitement laws.

So the "new" IRA & Saoradh wouldn't be illegal organisations ?

Pity there was only one man brave enough to protest against them.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/republicans-stage-march-after-murder-38035393.html

There are incitement laws, but walking down the street does not breech them.
From the link..

Up to 150 men and women in military fatigues, their faces covered by berets and sunglasses, paraded outside the GPO.
Saoradh, which denies it is a mouthpiece for the New IRA, issued a self-serving statement within 12 hours of Ms McKee's murder, blaming it on "Crown Forces".

For decades we had something very similar...

men and women in military fatigues, their faces covered by berets and sunglasses, paraded outside the GPO.
Sinn Fein, which denies it is a mouthpiece for the Provisional IRA, issued a self-serving statement within 12 hours of X's murder, blaming it on "Crown Forces".

For a long time Gerry was not allowed to speak on RTE, but he was allowed to speak on BBC.
We all know when two organisations are two sides of the same coin, but it can become a question of free speech versus the risk of having an overly authoritarian state. Clamping down on freedom is not always the answer.


Ideally the marchers would have been heckled and jeered by the general public. Respect to that one brave man in the video, standing resolute on the white line in the middle of the road.

Lavinia

one good and cool headed article

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-the-death-of-lyra-mckee-1.3865975

Discodog

recedite wrote: »

There are incitement laws, but walking down the street does not breech them.
From the link..
For decades we had something very similar...For a long time Gerry was not allowed to speak on RTE, but he was allowed to speak on BBC.
We all know when two organisations are two sides of the same coin, but it can become a question of free speech versus the risk of having an overly authoritarian state. Clamping down on freedom is not always the answer.


Ideally the marchers would have been heckled and jeered by the general public. Respect to that one brave man in the video, standing resolute on the white line in the middle of the road.

I find it strange & disappointing that they weren't. The dividing line isn't whether groups condemn the shooting, it's when they say that it was "collateral damage" & that innocents always get caught up in wars.

I thought that the Republicans had a strong network & should easily be able to stop these extremists who are damaging the Republican cause. Or is that, deep down many feel admiration for their protoges ? Can a crowd gather & throw petrol bombs, in the Creggan, without the "approval" of the IRA (or whatever they are called now) ?

expectationlost

Discodog wrote: »

I find it strange & disappointing that they weren't.

who says they weren't? were you there?

Discodog

expectationlost wrote: »

who says they weren't? were you there?

I have seen several videos & there appears to be one brave protester. Rotten eggs would of been good for Easter.

JohnnyFlash

Those jumped up fascist thugs marching down O’Connell Street yesterday should all be arrested and brought before the Special Criminal Court. There should be serious consequences for those people.