Saracens vs Munster, Sat 20th April, 3pm

razorblunt

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster are becoming the Mayo of the Heineken Cup. That's three seasons in a row they've been utterly dominated at this stage of the tournament.

Not necessarily, getting to the semis at this stage is probably over achieving for them. As it was in their previous losses in recent memory.

digzy

Dunno why posters are so distracted with billy v.
We’re watching rugby. Judge him as a rugby player.
Don’t agree with his views and don’t know why he’d go public with that nonsense.

Very rarely has a bad game

Wouldn’t be looking to rugby pros for my moral guidance

AbusesToilets

digzy wrote: »

Unfortunately most of our backs are exposed at this level.

I think Munster have plenty of talent in the backline. Farrell, Conway, Earl's, Carberry, Murray. That's up there with any team imo. They just have no structure at all.

Paul Smeenus

Hard lines, Munsterfolk.

Thought Farrell was your best player. Murray had quite a canny game, couple of sharp decisions, but wasn't at his best. Breakdown seemed to be an absolute free for all, but POM just couldn't take advantage. Impressed by Haley.

Sarries played a much smarter second half, though. Got to be coaching. A couple of players who had been quiet enough in the first half (Williams, Itoje, to a degree) had markedly better second halves. Also thought their Barrett replacement was hard to deal with.

I know this won't be popular, but Beirne, as with both Castres games, went AWOL. He might be a better option if POM's not playing - he gives you something similar, but doesn't embrace the grunt work when POM is on.

ScrubsfanChris

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

He's only been in the job a year and a half and didn't get to choose his staff.
That will not change in the summer.

Correction, meant to say "will change"

Dont know where that "not" came from.

razorblunt

digzy wrote: »

Unfortunately most of our backs are exposed at this level.

Too harsh. The players are there to play a quite clever backline setup, using Scannell as a second play maker, decent aggressive centers and Conway, Earls and Sweetnam.

Insisting or blindly hoping Murray will regain form whilst the inform 9 at the club is in the bench is another puzzle.

Squatter

Just seen this on the Indo website:-

"... under the warm Coventry sun in front of a disappointing crowd of 16,235.

Eleven years ago, the same teams attracted 30,325 to the same venue when Munster last reached a final"

That's a genuinely shocking decline in the attendance for what is billed as Europe's premier rugby competition.

Faugheen

digzy wrote: »

Dunno why posters are so distracted with billy v.
We’re watching rugby. Judge him as a rugby player.
Don’t agree with his views and don’t know why he’d go public with that nonsense.

Very rarely has a bad game

Wouldn’t be looking to rugby pros for my moral guidance

Rugby is trying to put its front foot forward in being an inclusive game for everyone.

The likes of Folau and Vunipola are in complete contrast to those values.1

His ‘beliefs’ are just that. He has no factual basis to back it up, therefore it’s hatred. Those ‘beliefs’ don’t belong in rugby.

fitz

digzy wrote: »

Dunno why posters are so distracted with billy v.
We’re watching rugby. Judge him as a rugby player.
Don’t agree with his views and don’t know why he’d go public with that nonsense.

Very rarely has a bad game

Wouldn’t be looking to rugby pros for my moral guidance

Ah yeah, he's good at rugby, ignore his homophobia, he's a grand lad. Jesus wept.
How is this hard for people to understand?
He can believe what he wants, but that doesn't mean those beliefs shouldn't be called out as appalling, and given tacit approval by a broadcaster sympathising with him rather than the people he so freely says are less deserving of respect and dignity.
Honestly, he's lucky he didn't get fired like Folau.

Former Former

Similar story to the last Saracens game really, gave it a good lash but eventually overpowered and outclassed.

I think the only solution is recruitment I'm afraid.

Paul Smeenus

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1119637079317676034?s=19

awec

Borders no.2 wrote: »

To say Munster aren't far away is quite optimistic I think. 3 semi finals on the trot is progress but in each of the 3 semis there's never been any point where you thought Munster had a real chance. Really Munster rode their luck against Edinburgh and Exeter to get this far and dropped the chance of home semi with a careless defeat in Castres.

Munster have the qualities to dominate most teams physically but when they can't they are easy enough to defend. Sometimes players don't seem to see the bigger picture attacking wise. The amount of times you see Munster using the battering ram approach when there's space if they moved the ball is frustrating. Whether that's down to coaching or whether that approach is just ingrained in the players mentality I'm not sure.

I still think Munster have a good chance in the league but in Europe I think they're a few players short.

Munster are nowhere close to a team capable of winning in Europe. They are no closer than they were a few years ago.

Still overly reliant on favourable draws and/or home fixtures. Still overly reliant on the team pulling big, one off performances out of the bag to beat top sides.

This Munster team is overachieving getting to semi finals. Harsh, but they are not at that level.

fitz

Former Former wrote: »

Similar story to the last Saracens game really, gave it a good lash but eventually overpowered and outclassed.

I think the only solution is recruitment I'm afraid.

Was no invention to deal with the power mismatch. I think Munster are capable of doing more with the players they have. Recruiting more power in the pack wouldn't hurt though.

SophieLockhart

fitz wrote: »

Ah yeah, he's good at rugby, ignore his homophobia, he's a grand lad. Jesus wept.
How is this hard for people to understand?
He can believe what he wants, but that doesn't mean those beliefs shouldn't be called out as appalling, and given tacit approval by a broadcaster sympathising with him rather than the people he so freely says are less deserving of respect and dignity.
Honestly, he's lucky he didn't get fired like Folau.

Oh cop on with the fake moralising. What are his opinions on the Iraq war, or Northern Ireland or anything else? The obsession of these homophiles is embarrassing. Glad he stuffed it where the sun don't shine.

AbusesToilets

awec wrote: »

Munster are nowhere close to a team capable of winning in Europe. They are no closer than they were a few years ago.

Still overly reliant on favourable draws and/or home fixtures. Still overly reliant on the team pulling big, one off performances out of the bag to beat top sides.

This Munster team is overachieving getting to semi finals. Harsh, but they are not at that level.

Ulster are the better team at present, and tbh Connacht aren't far off them either

Faugheen

SophieLockhart wrote: »

Oh cop on with the fake moralising. What are his opinions on the Iraq war, or Northern Ireland or anything else? The obsession of these homophiles is embarrassing. Glad he stuffed it where the sun don't shine.

So let a homophobe play rugby because The Troubles happened once upon a time?

Seriously. Anyone who downplays these views doesn’t belong in this great sport, because the inclusion and togetherness of the game is what makes it great.

You included. Go away.

Paul Smeenus

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1119637079317676034?s=19

the twerp was lucky that he wasn't stepped on.

no socks loafer sjw cnut

thomond2006

SophieLockhart wrote: »

Oh cop on with the fake moralising. What are his opinions on the Iraq war, or Northern Ireland or anything else? The obsession of these homophiles is embarrassing. Glad he stuffed it where the sun don't shine.

Paul Smeenus

Faugheen wrote: »

So let a homophobe play rugby because The Troubles happened once upon a time?

Seriously. Anyone who downplays these views doesn’t belong in this great sport, because the inclusion and togetherness of the game is what makes it great.

You included. Go away.

Whatever about Billy V, could we leave the Troubles out of it? A young woman was shot dead in Derry two days ago. It's a bit raw. Thanks.

salmocab

Didn’t see the game, glad to hear billy V was booed. He’s entitled to his opinion but people are just as entitled to express theirs.

Faugheen

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Whatever about Billy V, could we leave the Troubles out of it? A young woman was shot dead in Derry two days ago. It's a bit raw. Thanks.

I wasn’t the one who brought up Northern Ireland.

It was an oversight on my part though, apologies.

Squatter

SophieLockhart wrote: »

Oh cop on with the fake moralising. What are his opinions on the Iraq war, or Northern Ireland or anything else? The obsession of these homophiles is embarrassing. Glad he stuffed it where the sun don't shine.

Well said! Of course the irony of the wall-to-wall condemnation of the gullible Folau and his foolish fellow-travellers is that their critics haven't an effing clue about:

(i) whether or not God exists,

(ii) if s/he does, what his/her views on gays are, and

(iii) whether or not heaven exists!

troyzer

SophieLockhart wrote: »

Oh cop on with the fake moralising. What are his opinions on the Iraq war, or Northern Ireland or anything else? The obsession of these homophiles is embarrassing. Glad he stuffed it where the sun don't shine.

Homophile?

Nigel Owens just came out this week and described how difficult it was to come to terms with his sexuality. He wanted to end his life or undergo castration, he was so disgusted with himself.

Rugby is a sport with hundreds of players at test level and despite being a statistical absurdity, none of them are openly gay from what I can tell.

Whether you like it or not, it is important to make it absolutely clear that homophobia is unacceptable. We need a no tolerance attitude towards racism, homophobia and sexism.

If some Ireland international had slagged off Islanders using some racial slurs, I'd be saying exactly the same thing.

salmocab

Squatter wrote: »

Well said! Of course the irony of the wall-to-wall condemnation of the gullible Folau and his foolish fellow-travellers is that their critics haven't an effing clue about:

(i) whether or not God exists,

(ii) if s/he does, what his/her views on gays are, and

(iii) whether or not heaven exists!

Neither does Folau he just thinks he does

Faugheen

Squatter wrote: »

Well said! Of course the irony of the wall-to-wall condemnation of the gullible Folau and his foolish fellow-travellers is that their critics haven't an effing clue about:

(i) whether or not God exists,

(ii) if s/he does, what his/her views on gays are, and

(iii) whether or not heaven exists!

So because we don’t know means that Folau and Vunipola can say what they like?

It baffles me that some people just don’t get it.

Squatter

salmocab wrote: »

Neither does Folau he just thinks he does

He doesn't just think it - he believes it.

And his critics don't.

So in essence what we have her is two bunches of complete gobsh1tes arguing over a bottle of smoke.

Akrasia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Ulster are the better team at present, and tbh Connacht aren't far off them either

Ulster and connacht will have their chance in the pro14 knockout stages. Let them prove themselves on the rugby pitch

fitz

Faugheen wrote: »

So because we don’t know means that Folau and Vunipola can say what they like?

It baffles me that some people just don’t get it.

The capability for false equivalence is mind-boggling.

glasso

glasso wrote: »

the twerp was lucky that he wasn't stepped on.

no socks loafer sjw cnut

must have been a C4 supporter.

Squatter

Faugheen wrote: »

So because we don’t know means that Folau and Vunipola can say what they like?

Naturally.

Why would any reasonably intelligent person have a problem understanding that?

That said, it's probably unrealistic of me to expect reasonable intelligence on an Irish rugby thread!

ScrubsfanChris

That BT Sport interviewer was caught apologising to Billy V. for asking him a difficult question post game.

Christ, these people have no spines.

troyzer

Anyone watching the Sale game?

Ridiculous amount of fouls.

clsmooth

I was quite disappointed by Haley. Really struggled in the air and was targeted accordingly.
Thought Farrell went well. Munster back row well outplayed which is worrying from an Ireland point of view. Stander has one big turnover but little else of note. Beirne and POM didn’t have too many moments apart from the odd penalty given away. They just seem a bit lightweight which is concerning with the RWC on the horizon. Sarries so much better at kick contesting and also blocking off potential chasers. Hard to see where Munster go from here. They were well beaten today. Earls and Carberry would have made no difference.

Squatter

fitz wrote: »

The capability for false equivalence is mind-boggling.

Almost as staggering as the hollow arrogance of the opinionated know-all.

fitz

Squatter wrote: »

Naturally.

Why would any reasonably intelligent person have a problem understanding that?

They can of course say what they like, but they then have to live with the consequences of that.
They're bigots, self confessed. Nothing to do with who believes in God or doesn't.
No reasonably intelligent person should have a problem understanding that.

Hobosan

Faugheen wrote: »

So let a homophobe play rugby because The Troubles happened once upon a time?

Seriously. Anyone who downplays these views doesn’t belong in this great sport, because the inclusion and togetherness of the game is what makes it great.

You included. Go away.

What job should a homophobe be allowed to do? If not the one they are best in the world at, then what?

Few provide alternatives. "Homophobes are only fit to be janitors". Oops, can't say that! You'll just upset the janitors.

Honestly, the excuse these people are not fit for the job is nonsense. Vunipola and Folau are arguably the best at what they do on Earth right now.

What people want is for them to be punished by doing lower status jobs. They won't say what those jobs are, as that would be classist, but it's plain as day.

AbusesToilets

clsmooth wrote: »

I was quite disappointed by Haley. Really struggled in the air and was targeted accordingly.
Thought Farrell went well. Munster back row well outplayed which is worrying from an Ireland point of view. Stander has one big turnover but little else of note. Beirne and POM didn’t have too many moments apart from the odd penalty given away. They just seem a bit lightweight which is concerning with the RWC on the horizon. Sarries so much better at kick contesting and also blocking off potential chasers. Hard to see where Munster go from here. They were well beaten today. Earls and Carberry would have made no difference.

POM and Beirne aren't that good, and Stander is very one dimensional these days.

Henry Ford III

Munster can have no complaints. We were well beaten up front and struggled for possession and territory.

Billy V. was unwise to have taken to Twitter to express his beliefs. Having said that today was a game of rugby and supporters aren't the thought police - They should have just ignored him.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

POM and Beirne aren't that good, and Stander is very one dimensional these days.

Stander is playing himself out of the starting Irish jersey as far as I'm concerned.

We'll see how Conan goes tomorrow but he's been the better player for months now.

Squatter

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only South African import starting for Sarries is a capped England international?

Apart from Michael Rhodes of course!

Plus Koch and Burger on the bench.

Faugheen

Hobosan wrote: »

What job should a homophobe be allowed to do? If not the one they are best in the world at, then what?

Few provide alternatives. "Homophobes are only fit to be janitors". Oops, can't say that! You'll just upset the janitors.

Honestly, the excuse these people are not fit for the job is nonsense. Vunipola and Folau are arguably the best at what they do on Earth right now.

What people want is for them to be punished by doing lower status jobs. They won't say what those jobs are, as that would be classist, but it's plain as day.

Homophobes shouldn’t be a part of society as far as I’m concerned.

We should just allow racists in our game as well. Sure what job can they do?

The sheer whoosh-ism in this thread is ridiculous.

troyzer

Faugheen wrote: »

Homophobes shouldn’t be a part of society as far as I’m concerned.

We should just allow racists in our game as well. Sure what job can they do?

The sheer whoosh-ism in this thread is ridiculous.

What do skinheads do for a living?

I have no idea, but that's what homophobes should do as well.

Hobosan

Faugheen wrote: »

Homophobes shouldn’t be a part of society as far as I’m concerned.

We should just allow racists in our game as well. Sure what job can they do?

The sheer whoosh-ism in this thread is ridiculous.

Now we're getting somewhere. Homophobes don't belong in society. How do you propose to deal with this issue? Very few solutions as far as I can see.

Ship them off to Australia perhaps...

thomond2006

Running onto the pitch to confront a player is moronic and attention seeking.

Brewster

Munster were well beaten. McCall has done an amazing job with Sarries over a long period of time and they were always winning that game. The reality is that Munster were lucky enough to make the semis. The step up in class from Edinburgh to Sarries is night and day. Munster’s best chance in the semis would have been to play Leinster.

troyzer

Hobosan wrote: »

Now we're getting somewhere. Homophobes don't belong in society. How do you propose to deal with this issue? Very few solutions as far as I can see.

Ship them off to Australia perhaps...

Instead of a slap on the wrist, they should be encouraged to meet with marginalised members of the gay community to just chat and learn about their experiences.

Homophobia etc. is almost always born out of extreme ignorance.

Squatter

Faugheen wrote: »

Homophobes shouldn’t be a part of society as far as I’m concerned.

So would you recommend that they undergo a course of conversion therapy? :P

Diabhal Beag

Didn't feel as though Munster had made any real progression in the last few years and today sadly indicated that. They're still a long way off being a top 2 team in Europe.

Faugheen

Hobosan wrote: »

Now we're getting somewhere. Homophobes don't belong in society. How do you propose to deal with this issue? Very few solutions as far as I can see.

Ship them off to Australia perhaps...

Stop letting them spout sheer hatred and bigotry because they believe that’s what some white-bearded man in the sky says, according to them.

Why should they be allowed to play our game? They have shown they are ignorant, they’re not sorry for it and they have to be involved in a profession which contains gay people.

Why should Billy Vunipola be allowed to belittle Nigel Owens because if his sexuality, which he can’t control, based on absolutely **** all?

By letting them play professional sport and represent millions of people, you go no further to solving the fundamental issue of homophobia, instead you’re hoping someone else should do it.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Running onto the pitch to confront a player is moronic and attention seeking.

..and he's been banned from the Ricoh Arena.