Coefficient of rolling resistance of Irish roads

CramCycle

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

See the problem is essentially the foundations.

The roads we're all worried about are minor roads. They generally have a terrible foundation.

To do a proper job you'd want to pull the whole lot out and start again.

So you're left with half assed regardless.

You go and fire in full HRA it'll probably pothole just as quick as a thin layer of DBM and tar and chip.

So do the cheapest......

Could you not put the cheap smooth layer and warning saying "Oi, f*ck hole, the road is slippy, always, drive to fast and your insurance is invalid, because, well, your a f*ckhole". I presume is will crack and break, and pothole as well but at least your not risking cyclists, and damaging cars or pedestrians.

Wildly Boaring

crosstownk wrote: »

Speaks volumes really.

I'd stand by my comment actually.
The cheapest is probably the most prudent course of action in the circumstances.

Full job not financially viable unless we stop funding to any other sort of transport project and focus on full rebuild to 100 year old roads.

Tar and chip has it's place. We as cyclists suffer for a few weeks after but ultimately if the council were forced to run s sweeper weekly it'd sort itself pretty quickly.

Unfortunately for that to happy probably need to suffer s few claims or be forced some other way.

outfox

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Tar and chip has it's place. We as cyclists suffer for a few weeks after but ultimately if the council were forced to run s sweeper weekly it'd sort itself pretty quickly.

Unfortunately, it's not just a few weeks. Even after the loose chippings are cleaned off, the road is still sh1te because the new surface just settles on top of the original crappy surface, like throwing a new table cloth on a table without removing the plates. So the finished road is still bumpy, and gets worse after a year or 2. And of course the chips wear off from car tyres, so you get dangerous transition zones between chipped and unchipped parts. And then we get the bitumen melting on a hot day, throwing tar spots and grit all over cars/bikes. Tar and chip is the devil IMO. I can see why local authorities use it. It offers instant skid resistance, and is much kinder on limited annual budgets.

Council's should remove third class roads from their maintenance programmes, and use the money to bring regional roads up to scratch. If you chose to live in the arseh0le of nowhere up a third class road, tough. I say that as someone who lives up a third class road.

Don't get me started on contractors who carry out trenching works which result in settlement after a few weeks. It's beyond me that they cannot manage to repair the surface so that it stays flush with the surrounding surface.

magicbastarder

outfox wrote: »

Even after the loose chippings are cleaned off, the road is still sh1te because the new surface just settles on top of the original crappy surface, like throwing a new table cloth on a table without removing the plates.

yeah, saw a great example of this on mullaghteelin (just north of snowtown) last year. you could see the outline of old potholes *after* the 'resurfacing'.

Large bottle small glass

outfox wrote: »

Unfortunately, it's not just a few weeks. Even after the loose chippings are cleaned off, the road is still sh1te because the new surface just settles on top of the original crappy surface, like throwing a new table cloth on a table without removing the plates. So the finished road is still bumpy, and gets worse after a year or 2. And of course the chips wear off from car tyres, so you get dangerous transition zones between chipped and unchipped parts. And then we get the bitumen melting on a hot day, throwing tar spots and grit all over cars/bikes. Tar and chip is the devil IMO. I can see why local authorities use it. It offers instant skid resistance, and is much kinder on limited annual budgets.

Council's should remove third class roads from their maintenance programmes, and use the money to bring regional roads up to scratch. If you chose to live in the arseh0le of nowhere up a third class road, tough. I say that as someone who lives up a third class road.

Don't get me started on contractors who carry out trenching works which result in settlement after a few weeks. It's beyond me that they cannot manage to repair the surface so that it stays flush with the surrounding surface.

As a cyclist bad bumpy surfaces have an up side, they will usually have a slowing effect on traffic and will typically veer all but essential motor traffic away from road.

Personally I hate seeing roads repaired with any resurfacing works. I have a 200km route around South Tipp and some sections were like Baghdad alley before this summer. Now 4 sections of it have been repaired. As long you can pick your line a poor surfaced road is typically safer especially for a solo cyclist.

There is 80k km of local roads in Ireland, I'd imagine local authorities would love not to have to maintain them, but I can hear the Healy Raes shouting already.

If LA just enforced the 1993 Roads Act with regard to drainage roads wouldn't need near as much resurfacing.

@Lumens post makes a lot of sense
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109985336&postcount=21

In a lot of areas the oversight on works by LA engineer is not very thorough. The manpower is thin on the ground in lots of places

tigerboon

outfox wrote: »

Don't get me started on contractors who carry out trenching works which result in settlement after a few weeks. It's beyond me that they cannot manage to repair the surface so that it stays flush with the surrounding surface.

When pipe laying is carried out the trenches are reinstated but the finished surface is not placed until they're confident settlement is finished. Once full settlement is achieved (might take a year or so), they replace the top bumpy 50mm or so with a lovely smooth final surface. That's the theory anyway.

outfox

That certainly makes sense, tigerboon, to allow settlement. But in the interim, some of the trenches can be messy. We've had a few falls in our club over trenches running along the road, one of which was nasty. And the trenches that cross the road can really hammer the sh1te out of your car.

smacl

outfox wrote: »

Council's should remove third class roads from their maintenance programmes, and use the money to bring regional roads up to scratch. If you chose to live in the arseh0le of nowhere up a third class road, tough. I say that as someone who lives up a third class road.

Personally, as a solo cyclist I try to take in as many quiet L-roads on my spins as possible. Very little traffic, great scenery and I use wider tyres so road condition isn't an issue. I would hate to see the loss of this part of our transport infrastructure which would occur relatively quickly without maintenance. Some of the most well loved cycling routes and mountain passes in this country follow L-roads.

Wildly Boaring

outfox wrote: »

That certainly makes sense, tigerboon, to allow settlement. But in the interim, some of the trenches can be messy. We've had a few falls in our club over trenches running along the road, one of which was nasty. And the trenches that cross the road can really hammer the sh1te out of your car.

Yep another problem with trenches is that it was always practice to seal the interface with the existing. The seal is just pitch poured on the joint. Nice and slippy on a bike

This case was an eye opener to the industry. It was on an N road which has a different reinstatement procedure to R and L roads. Has changed best practice.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/cyclist-awarded-64-000-over-fall-that-left-him-seriously-injured-1.3858677

As it said earlier the only way I'd see the after care of spray and chip changing is under similar circumstances

magicbastarder

I had a near fall at 40km/h+ a year or two ago. Heading towards swords on the ashbourne - swords road, in the wet, I reached a section where the left most section of road, maybe 50cm wide, had been re laid. I suspect due to subsidence. It was the scenario in the article above - my front wheel slid on the tar poured between the old and new surfaces, which meant it slid left because of the camber of the road. Problem for me was that it slipped down onto the new surface which was probably a centimetre or two below the old one - and bear in mind my front wheel had already just been whipped to the left on me, i found myself desperately trying to steer to the right to rebalance, but my wheel couldn't mount that lip between the two surfaces, so was bouncing along it.
somehow i managed to stay upright, but it'd have been bloody sore if i'd come off.

outfox

smacl wrote: »

Personally, as a solo cyclist I try to take in as many quiet L-roads on my spins as possible. Very little traffic, great scenery and I use wider tyres so road condition isn't an issue. I would hate to see the loss of this part of our transport infrastructure which would occur relatively quickly without maintenance. Some of the most well loved cycling routes and mountain passes in this country follow L-roads.

Oh I agree that the backroads are spectacular, and a hugely untapped cycling resource in Ireland. But we have gravel bikes and MTBs for rougher roads, so I'm not sure if every back road needs regular resurfacing. There are third class boreens near me with grass up the middle that have better surfaces than nearby regional roads and local primary roads.