Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

Farawayhome

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Give me the evidence and let me decide!


There!
Is!
No!
War!!!

That's a telling answer, unfortunately.

There was a war.

batgoat

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and yet no impartial write-up, no photos and videos etc?

I did check the quotes and they're reported in other outlets so not doubting on that front. But the claim that the British army is actively terrorising people at the moment seems more to be about fostering fear tbh

Farawayhome

Tomas81 wrote: »

Mate your IP address isn't even Irish ya lunatic, why am I entertaining you.

I think you might be on to something. There's an air of support for the British security forces emerging from many of the posts here. How many of the posters are actually British or unionist in persuasion?

Farawayhome

batgoat wrote: »

I did check the quotes and they're reported in other outlets so not doubting on that front. But the claim that the British army is actively terrorising people at the moment seems more to be about fostering fear tbh

I don't think anyone has claimed that. They have a history of it, it's natural that the Nationalist community would be worried about their presence.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tomas81 wrote: »

https://republican-news.org/current/news/2015/08/british_army_carry_out_derry_r.html

So as has been stated the BA explosives team will tag along if there is a risk.of explosives

The PSNI in Derry admitted the move. It said “military specialists” had been called in to search for “munitions and explosive devices”, which it said was a “high risk search”.

Timberrrrrrrr

Tomas81 wrote: »

Mate your IP address isn't even Irish ya lunatic, why am I entertaining you.

Now that's gotta be the funniest post in this whole thread :pac:

markodaly

Farawayhome wrote: »

Not really. 51% of those they killed during the war were innocent civilians, this doesn't include the innocents killed by their unionist allies using their bombs, guns and ammunition.

Yet, the PIRA killed civilians and Catholics than the BA.

markodaly

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So as has been stated the BA explosives team will tag along if there is a risk.of explosives

Shinnerbot logic.

Store explosives and bomb-making materials in a housing estate.
House gets raided because of said explosives.
Blame the PSNI/BA for doing their job....

citytillidie

WTF

How many of you are from Derry or the North? How many grew up through the troubles? How can you defend the actions of the State army on its own citizens?

What happened on Thursday was a joke what those clowns did, and to get youngsters to do their dirty work is even worse. The tide in the city has really turned on that group of thugs who are trying to drag the place backwards.

WinnyThePoo

Tomas81 wrote: »

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and yet no impartial write-up, no photos and videos etc?

Mate your IP address isn't even Irish ya lunatic, why am I entertaining you.

Nice deflection there.

Farawayhome

markodaly wrote: »

Yet, the PIRA killed civilians and Catholics than the BA.

The British side who fought side by side, armed each other with weapons and information, planted bombs together etc killed over 1,000 civilians. The majority of these were killed just because they were Catholics.

Ash.J.Williams

Interesting fact regarding creggan estate relating to yesterdays discussion on the lack of a "ballot box" for Catholics.
Creggan was designed as a gerrymandering exercise to move catholics from the city thus giving the largely Catholic area a protestant majority on the council.

facehugger99

Farawayhome wrote: »

The British side who fought side by side, armed each other with weapons and information, planted bombs together etc killed over 1,000 civilians. The majority of these were killed just because they were Catholics.

It was unfortunate the loss of innocent civilians but the I Ran Away boys used civilians as a human shield.

I think the BA did did the best they could in defeating IRA - we owe them a huge debt of gratitude on this island TBH.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Shinnerbot logic.

Store explosives and bomb-making materials in a housing estate.
House gets raided because of said explosives.
Blame the PSNI/BA for doing their job....

Apart from pointing out that these guys would see themselves at war with the shinners too, it must be pointed out that the British started a catastrophic war on the basis that somebody had arms and explosives of mass destruction.

What kinda logic would you call that? The natives of the place they started a war with would call it 'terrorist' logic.

Farawayhome

facehugger99 wrote: »

It was unfortunate the loss of innocent civilians but the I Ran Away boys used civilians as a human shield.

I think the BA did did the best they could in defeating IRA - we owe them a huge debt of gratitude on this island TBH.

We just celebrated the IRA/IRB in huge numbers in 2016. We owe them a lot for defending us from British brutality.

I ran away title was given to the IRA who had a mostly southern leadership in the 1960's. The PIRA emerged from here and let's be honest, without them, there would have been widespread ethnic cleansing in the north. That's not to say that everything they did was justified.

On the other hand, the British side targetted civilians and killed over 1,000 innocents.

Berserker

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think the BA did did the best they could in defeating IRA - we owe them a huge debt of gratitude on this island TBH.

A massive debt of gratitude. Can you imagine how bad things would have been but for the work that they put in. The Irish authorities didn't have the resources or knowledge to deal with the IRA.

Farawayhome

Berserker wrote: »

A massive debt of gratitude. Can you imagine how bad things would have been but for the work that they put in. The Irish authorities didn't have the resources or knowledge to deal with the IRA.

You are ignoring the fact that the PIRA had tiny numbers until the British army started shooting innocents dead on our streets. Also, I don't think we should show any gratitude to a group responsible for the Dublin and Monaghan bombs, Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Kincora boys home, etc the list is endless.

johnsie

Ah, the generic p*ssing contest of who carried the most atrocities. Borrrrrrring. Please change the record (assuming you're so old that you probably still have a record collection). I think some of you old folks need to put down the green/orange tinted glasses. The only people who are going to actually solve "the troubles" are those who walk away from the senseless tribalism of the past. People from Lyra McKee's generation who mostly want to move on and have a normal, inclusive society. You old dinosaurs can go do one. <snip>

Farawayhome

johnsie wrote: »

Ah, the generic p*ssing contest of who carried the most atrocities. Borrrrrrring. Please change the record (assuming you're so old that you probably still have a record collection). I think some of you old folks need to put down the green/orange tinted glasses. The only people who are going to actually solve "the troubles" are those who walk away from the senseless tribalism of the past. People from Lyra McKee's generation who mostly want to move on and have a normal, inclusive society. You old dinosaurs can go do one. <snip>

It's important that we learn from the past so it's not repeated!

Seth Brundle

johnsie wrote: »

The only people who are going to actually solve "the troubles" are those who walk away from the senseless tribalism of the past. People from Lyra McKee's generation who mostly want to move on and have a normal, inclusive society. You old dinosaurs can go do one. <snip>

You do know that it is believed that a teenager was the one who murdered Lyra?

citytillidie

facehugger99 wrote: »

It was unfortunate the loss of innocent civilians but the I Ran Away boys used civilians as a human shield.

I think the BA did did the best they could in defeating IRA - we owe them a huge debt of gratitude on this island TBH.

Feck off with that the BA were not the best for this place. Tell me have you ever been stood in a line up when 8 by the BA for travelling home from a day out as they searched the car you were in just because they could do it? How is that right ? Having 2 woman and there kids stand still for 2 hours pointing guns at them because they can do it

facehugger99

citytillidie wrote: »

Feck off with that the BA were not the best for this place. Tell me have you ever been stood in a line up when 8 by the BA for travelling home from a day out as they searched the car you were in just because they could do it? How is that right ? Having 2 woman and there kids stand still for 2 hours pointing guns at them because they can do it

While I'm sure it was very unpleasant to have to stand around for a bit (lol), the fact is, that the measures taken by the BA worked in defeating IRA.

As a nationalist you were at far greater risk of being murdered by IRA than by the BA - that's an irrefutable fact.

The IRA gave up their weapons and accepted they would never achieve their aims - that was a great victory for the British security forces and one you should be very grateful for.

Tomas81

facehugger99 wrote: »

While I'm sure it was very unpleasant to have to stand around for a bit (lol), the fact is, that the measures taken by the BA worked in defeating IRA.

As a nationalist you were at far greater risk of being murdered by IRA than by the BA - that's an irrefutable fact.

The IRA gave up their weapons and accepted they would never achieve their aims - that was a great victory for the British security forces and one you should be very grateful for.

You believe the IRA were defeated? The documents released by the FOI act for the British cabinet says otherwise

Farawayhome

facehugger99 wrote: »

While I'm sure it was very unpleasant to have to stand around for a bit (lol), the fact is, that the measures taken by the BA worked in defeating IRA.

As a nationalist you were at far greater risk of being murdered by IRA than by the BA - that's an irrefutable fact.

The IRA gave up their weapons and accepted they would never achieve their aims - that was a great victory for the British security forces and one you should be very grateful for.

This post proves how uneducated partitionists are on this whole topic.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

While I'm sure it was very unpleasant to have to stand around for a bit (lol), the fact is, that the measures taken by the BA worked in defeating IRA.

As a nationalist you were at far greater risk of being murdered by IRA than by the BA - that's an irrefutable fact.

The IRA gave up their weapons and accepted they would never achieve their aims - that was a great victory for the British security forces and one you should be very grateful for.

The IRA put their own weapons beyond use after reaching a mutually agreed settlement where the British accepted the Irish right to self determination without outside impediment and said they had no strategic interest in here.

That is why those 'who lived in fear of being killed by the IRA' :rolleyes: voted for that agreement and have rewarded those who reached that agreement with ever increasing numbers of votes since.

Keep your head buried there, lest you confront reality.

citytillidie

facehugger99 wrote: »

While I'm sure it was very unpleasant to have to stand around for a bit (lol), the fact is, that the measures taken by the BA worked in defeating IRA.

As a nationalist you were at far greater risk of being murdered by IRA than by the BA - that's an irrefutable fact.

The IRA gave up their weapons and accepted they would never achieve their aims - that was a great victory for the British security forces and one you should be very grateful for.

AHH come back to me when you have experienced anything like that. Now yes grown up I could handle it. But when you're 8 and you see what you see on the news and here you have any men pointing guns at you how will you be feeling?

Baggly

Mod

All. Please let us keep our heads in this thread and treat each other with a little respect. The discussion is a good one i want to keep going, but isnt served by hyperbole and inflammatory statements (on both sides of the discussion).

Thanks.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The IRA put their own weapons beyond use after reaching a mutually agreed settlement where the British accepted the Irish right to self determination without outside impediment and said they had no strategic interest in here.
.

The defeated need to be given a few fig-leaves to cover their embarrassment - that's politics and it's only right and fair.

The Brits never had a strategic interest in NI - they'd happily hand the place back if we were stupid enough to take on the costs and security headaches - luckily there's a substantial majority here that aren't that stupid.

The so-called dissidents are even more thick than SF/IRA - at least they realised eventually they were beaten - what the current bunch or arseholes hope to achieve is beyond me.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The defeated need to be given a few fig-leaves to cover their embarrassment - that's politics and it's only right and fair.

The Brits never had a strategic interest in NI - they'd happily hand the place back if we were stupid enough to take on the costs and security headaches - luckily there's a substantial majority here that aren't that stupid.

The so-called dissidents are even more thick than SF/IRA - at least they realised eventually they were beaten - what the current bunch or arseholes hope to achieve is beyond me.

They had a fairly well expressed strategic interest in our ports during WW2.

Once again you show a fairly poor grasp of history.

Tomas81

facehugger99 wrote: »

The defeated need to be given a few fig-leaves to cover their embarrassment - that's politics and it's only right and fair.

The Brits never had a strategic interest in NI - they'd happily hand the place back if we were stupid enough to take on the costs and security headaches - luckily there's a substantial majority here that aren't that stupid.

The so-called dissidents are even more thick than SF/IRA - at least they realised eventually they were beaten - what the current bunch or arseholes hope to achieve is beyond me.

The IRA brought the Brits to a negotiations table where they said they'd never go with the IRA.

SINN FEIN resumed negotiations and have since removed an orange state, the clause for a border poll and the repeat every 7 years after was hard fought for by republicans.

Should you require proof the FOI act released all docs.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They had a fairly well expressed strategic interest in our ports during WW2.

Once again you show a fairly pathetic grasp of history.

Stop living in the past Francie-lad - embrace the future.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Stop living in the past Francie-lad - embrace the future.

What?

You stated something that was simply incorrect. The British had a very well expressed 'strategic interest' in Ireland.
That is a fact.

They have relinquished that interest, and have tacitly withdrawn from Ireland in the GFA.
They will not defend a majority decision by the Irish people for them to leave. They have even promised to be neutral on the subject.

Again, that is the reality of the achievement of the GFA.

Yet you paint it as a 'defeat'.

You don't need to support the IRA or even SF to see this reality.

Berserker

Tomas81 wrote: »

The IRA brought the Brits to a negotiations table where they said they'd never go with the IRA.

Never knew the IRA were the negotiating type.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They had a fairly well expressed strategic interest in our ports during WW2.

Once again you show a fairly poor grasp of history.

Probably keeping an eye out for U boats..

Hurrache

These assholes Twitter and Facebook page now gone. Twitter has been removed due to violation of Twitters terms, not sure what the story is with their Facebook page.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Probably keeping an eye out for U boats..

Absolutely.

Needs to be mentioned too that rather than the British altruistically defending our airspace, that by overflying us, they are actually defending themselves.

In the wrong hands (Germans in WW2 and the Russians today) Ireland represents a threat to their west. That is why they always had a 'strategic' interest here and were prepared to use military force to maintain it.

They couldn't do that militarily after 1916 and they couldn't maintain/defend it morally in northern Ireland after 1998.

Tomas81

Berserker wrote: »

Never knew the IRA were the negotiating type.

The mountainclimber?

Phileas Frog

Farawayhome wrote: »

Not really. 51% of those they killed during the war were innocent civilians, this doesn't include the innocents killed by their unionist allies using their bombs, guns and ammunition.

What percentage innocent people were murdered by the IRA / INLA / ANAL / $random IRA?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Apart from pointing out that these guys would see themselves at war with the shinners too, it must be pointed out that the British started a catastrophic war on the basis that somebody had arms and explosives of mass destruction.

What kinda logic would you call that? The natives of the place they started a war with would call it 'terrorist' logic.

What on gods name are you waffling about now? Incoherent rubbish this is.

I guess the security forces should have left the Provos reduce the north to dust at will, I suppose. It was the PIRA that brought the bombs to the North, which culminated in Omagh.

Jamie2k9

Not sure if mentioned but FB and Twitter have suspended there accounts.

Baggly

markodaly wrote: »

What on gods name are you waffling about now? Incoherent rubbish this is.

I guess the security forces should have left the Provos reduce the north to dust at will, I suppose. It was the PIRA that brought the bombs to the North, which culminated in Omagh.

Mod

Markodaly, calm down on the hyperbole please. Final warning.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What on gods name are you waffling about now? Incoherent rubbish this is.

I guess the security forces should have left the Provos reduce the north to dust at will, I suppose. It was the PIRA that brought the bombs to the North, which culminated in Omagh.

Simply making the point that on the pretext of 'security and defence' the British as well as the RUC, brutalised and damaged many innocent lives. As did the various paramilitaries. That is what happens in a war/conflict situation and enables either side to call the other the 'terrorist'.

Which is why that word is utterly useless as a 'definition'.

Fusitive

Phileas Frog wrote: »

What percentage innocent people were murdered by the IRA / INLA / ANAL / $random IRA?

Here are the numbers of all deaths in the troubles

Of those killed by British security forces:

187 (~51.5%) were civilians

145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries

18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries

13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces

723 (~35%) were civilians

187(~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries

57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries

11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

878 (~85.4%) were civilians

94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries

41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries

14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

Tomas81

markodaly wrote: »

What on gods name are you waffling about now? Incoherent rubbish this is.

I guess the security forces should have left the Provos reduce the north to dust at will, I suppose. It was the PIRA that brought the bombs to the North, which culminated in Omagh.

How are the provisional movement responsible for Omagh?

facehugger99

So the IRA killed nearly 600 more civilians than the big bad Brits?

Absolute Scumbags.

Fusitive

facehugger99 wrote: »

So the IRA killed nearly 600 more civilians than the big bad Brits?

Absolute Scumbags.

I think you've forgot about the scale of collusion the British army/MI6 had with Loyalist paramilitaries and admittance of senior BA officials to setting off false flag IRA attacks in the North. The British Army was an inflammatory source in the North. They should never have been there under the guise of peacekeepers. How could BA ever be an impartial peacekeeper?

A protected British spy Freddie Scappaticci was head of the nutting squad ffs. Some peacekeeping

markodaly

Tomas81 wrote: »

How are the provisional movement responsible for Omagh?

The men who carried it out were trained under the Provo regime and the leadership of the Real IRA were also high ranking ex PIRA members.

The tactic of leaving a car bomb on a busy market street was Provo bombing tactic 101 for decades

The PIRA have to accept their share of responsibility to that slaughter.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The men who carried it out were trained under the Provo regime and the leadership of the Real IRA were also high ranking ex PIRA members.

The tactic of leaving a car bomb on a busy market street was Provo bombing tactic 101 for decades

The PIRA have to accept their share of responsibility to that slaughter.

Who do you deem to have the ultimate responsibility for there being a slaughter?

Tomas81

markodaly wrote: »

The men who carried it out were trained under the Provo regime and the leadership of the Real IRA were also high ranking ex PIRA members.

The tactic of leaving a car bomb on a busy market street was Provo bombing tactic 101 for decades

The PIRA have to accept their share of responsibility to that slaughter.

The men who you say we're ex members of the provisionals left 16 months previous due to the PIRA backing primacy of politics that Sinn Fein offered.

So if you have a family member who's a sex offender are you in turn responsible?

Tomas81

markodaly wrote: »

The men who carried it out were trained under the Provo regime and the leadership of the Real IRA were also high ranking ex PIRA members.

The tactic of leaving a car bomb on a busy market street was Provo bombing tactic 101 for decades

The PIRA have to accept their share of responsibility to that slaughter.

And they weren't high ranking members, 1 member was QM of the provos the rest were members