Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

Tomas81

Larbre34 wrote: »

And you'd be wrong. Apart from having no legitimacy in this Republic, they never had anything bar tiny pockets of support. And much of that tiny support was achieved through intimidation, racketeering, extorsion, kidnapping, torture and murder and they perpetrated any number of other completely non-political crimes such as smuggling, money and fuel laundering and despite their statements, drugs.

They were criminal scum, just like this current crowd are criminal scum for which their 'political aims' are just a red herring, only their support now could probably fit on a basketball court and as we've seen, no one is buying what they're selling, nor are they afraid of them.

I can't really take your Irish history lesson serious since you didn't know what Oglaigh na hEireann meant , but anyway I'll combat what I know to be untrue. The provisional IRA had huge support both north and south. If you're a blue shirt it's understandable you'd not of acknowledged support.

Farawayhome

Larbre34 wrote: »

Of course they weren't legitimate and they had little support in a divided City and Country at the time, many of whom relied on the Queen's shilling coming back from the Western Front or the pension from their dead sons and brothers. They were spat upon by a divided City and only changed things through their martyrdom. The execution of the leaders was the biggest strategic mistake the Crown made in the previous 150 years of their rule in Ireland.

I mean Jesus, dont come in here pontificating when clearly you've either read or understood very little history.

Just showed up your theory to be nonsense. And I got you to prove it with the above post.

MrFresh

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Is this new IRA the ones doing the ATM's to tool up?

Most likely. And they've already said they see Gardaí as legitimate targets in their campaign.

Farawayhome

Bambi wrote: »

Yeah, because the old IRA was all Tom Barry ambushing Tans in country lanes, they weren't shooting off duty cops and civil servants in cold blood or robbing banks and throwing bombs around on busy streets.

The Old IRA were every bit like the provos, They were just white washed afterwards.

Along with what you've said above, the old IRA disappeared over 100 people, some of the old IRA strapped men to landmines and blew them to smithereens.

Tomas81

MrFresh wrote: »

Most likely. And they've already said they see Gardaí as legitimate targets in their campaign.

Where? It is in the GB that to engage Free state forces is against army ruling. You'd be court martialled. Can you direct me to where it's said?

MrFresh

Tomas81 wrote: »

Where? It is in the GB that to engage Free state forces is against army ruling. You'd be court martialled. Can you direct me to where it's said?

Reported in the Sunday World on the 14th.

Tomas81

MrFresh wrote: »

Reported in the Sunday World on the 14th.

??? Please tell me your joking.

So cause the Sunday world said they are targeting police, you believe it.
I detest the NIRA but Jesus Christ I'm not stupid. What age are you?

Farawayhome

MrFresh wrote: »

Reported in the Sunday World on the 14th.

Seems like many around here are getting their information from the Sunday world, the independent and the likes! Tells it all really.

Billy86

Hedgelayer wrote: »

Another shower of sjws dressed up as soldiers.

What social justice are they after, exactly?

MrFresh

Tomas81 wrote: »

??? Please tell me your joking.

So cause the Sunday world said they are targeting police, you believe it.
I detest the NIRA but Jesus Christ I'm not stupid. What age are you?

Why would you think they are following the Green Book?

zapitastas

janfebmar wrote: »

During the worst years of the troubles, 1969-1982, their political wing could not get a single MP or TD elected. First SF MP elected during the troubles was 82 or 83, first SF TD elected since the troubles started was not until 1997. So no, the provos did not have "enormous amount of support in the north and in the border counties."

Prior to the hunger strikes the focus was not on the ballot box.

To claim that the IRA did not have a Hugh level of support within their communities betrays an ignorance of the situation. Granted a lot of the initial support came from the fact that the IRA defended areas from marauding unionists intent on burning their Catholic neighbours from their houses. The nasty sectarian state set up for Protestant ascendency had reached it's pinnacle with the RUC content with the development and in a lot of cases facilitating the pogroms against Catholics. Is it any wonder the IRA received widespread support in nationalist areas

Tomas81

MrFresh wrote: »

Why would you think they are following the Green Book?

All Oglachs are sworn in off the greenbook.

Tomas81

zapitastas wrote: »

Prior to the hunger strikes the focus was not on the ballot box.

To claim that the IRA did not have a Hugh level of support within their communities betrays an ignorance of the situation. Granted a lot of the initial support came from the fact that the IRA defended areas from marauding unionists intent on burning their Catholic neighbours from their houses. The nasty sectarian state set up for Protestant ascendency had reached it's pinnacle with the RUC content with the development and in a lot of cases facilitating the pogroms against Catholics. Is it any wonder the IRA received widespread support in nationalist areas

2 candidates ran in elections in 81, both succeeded Kieran Doherty TD, Peoples own MP Bobby sands. 30 thousand can't be wrong.

upupup

If the Old IRA had failed 100 years ago,Ireland would have left the EU on 29th march as part of the Uk.
I am thankful to the Old IRA

Dyr

Farawayhome wrote: »

Along with what you've said above, the old IRA disappeared over 100 people, some of the old IRA strapped men to landmines and blew them to smithereens.

The guys who did that were probably never in the IRA. The National Army were mostly new recruits or ex British Army. The commander of the Free State Forces in Kerry when Ballyseedy happened was a British Army officer not IRA.

It's kind of funny that with all the huffing and puffing about legitimacy that people forget that the Defence Forces have as little legitimacy to the old IRA as the assorted other flavours of IRA that existed through the decades

Farawayhome

upupup wrote: »

If the Old IRA had failed 100 years ago,Ireland would have left the EU on 29th march as part of the Uk.
I am thankful to the Old IRA

They did fail. The aim was a 32 county republic.

OldMrBrennan83

Farawayhome wrote: »

They did fail. The aim was a 32 county republic.

We've a state free from Britain. They succeeded for me anyway.

Farawayhome

Bambi wrote: »

The guys who did that were probably never in the IRA. The National Army were mostly new recruits or ex British Army. The commander of the Free State Forces in Kerry when Ballyseedy happened was a British Army officer not IRA.

It's kind of funny that with all the huffing and puffing about legitimacy that people forget that the Defence Forces have as little legitimacy to the old IRA as the assorted other flavours of IRA that existed through the decades

Well the free state forces were armed by the British, makes sense that they had British army officers amongst their ranks.

zapitastas

Tomas81 wrote: »

2 candidates ran in elections in 81, both succeeded Kieran Doherty TD, Peoples own MP Bobby sands. 30 thousand can't be wrong.

I know Kieran Doherty was elected in cavan/monaghan but was he a SF candidate or an independent

Farawayhome

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

We've a state free from Britain. They succeeded for me anyway.

They failed in their aims and they left nationalists to suffer in a protestant state which eventually led to a 30 year war.

Tomas81

I like this going around FB

Larbre34

Tomas81 wrote: »

I can't really take your Irish history lesson serious since you didn't know what Oglaigh na hEireann meant , but anyway I'll combat what I know to be untrue. The provisional IRA had huge support both north and south. If you're a blue shirt it's understandable you'd not of acknowledged support.

First, I'm well aware 'Defence Forces' is not a translation of Óglaigh na hÉireann, its not meant to be, I'm quoting the officially adopted terminology in both languages since 1924 so let's park that.

What you "know to be untrue" is a matter for your own mind, I'm happy enough to rely on facts. In general elections in the Free State / Republic from 1927 to 2007, Sinn Féin's number of seats never exceeded 5 and in fact averaged just 2. (The Dáil had variously 144,147,153 and 166 seats in that time)

OldMrBrennan83

Farawayhome wrote: »

They failed in their aims and they left nationalists to suffer in a protestant state which eventually led to a 30 year war.

Not here though. Ireland isn't part of the UK - success.

blanch152

Tomas81 wrote: »

??? Please tell me your joking.

So cause the Sunday world said they are targeting police, you believe it.
I detest the NIRA but Jesus Christ I'm not stupid. What age are you?

I would believe the Sunday World ahead of some random internet poster who doesn't seem to have much of a clue about anything. And that is a very low bar that you have failed.

Tomas81

Larbre34 wrote: »

First, I'm well aware 'Defence Forces' is not a translation of Óglaigh na hÉireann, its not meant to be, I'm quoting the officially adopted terminology in both languages since 1924 so let's park that.

What you "know to be untrue" is a matter for your own mind, I'm happy enough to rely on facts. In general elections in the Free State / Republic from 1927 to 2007, Sinn Féin's number of seats never exceeded 5 and in fact averaged just 2. (The Dáil had variously 144,147,153 and 166 seats in that time)

Hang on a second you were referring to the IRA, now you've switched to a party who was abstentionist hahaha. Abstentionist was dropped in 1986 leading to the split for RSF. Support throughout the 70s and 80s for the RM was huge I was in jail in Long Kesh and seen the support firsthand within the jail of letters then on release the growth. Large districts completely under the command of RM. So maybe part your "Facts" as they are BS.

Tomas81

blanch152 wrote: »

I would believe the Sunday World ahead of some random internet poster who doesn't seem to have much of a clue about anything. And that is a very low bar that you have failed.

Hahahaha really. That's good what do I not have much a clue about?

Farawayhome

Larbre34 wrote: »

First, I'm well aware 'Defence Forces' is not a translation of Óglaigh na hÉireann, its not meant to be, I'm quoting the officially adopted terminology in both languages since 1924 so let's park that.

What you "know to be untrue" is a matter for your own mind, I'm happy enough to rely on facts. In general elections in the Free State / Republic from 1927 to 2007, Sinn Féin's number of seats never exceeded 5 and in fact averaged just 2. (The Dáil had variously 144,147,153 and 166 seats in that time)

The PIRA had huge levels of support. Sinn Féin and the PIRA are not the same thing despite the independent telling you otherwise. There's no chance they could have successfully fought a 30 year war without the support. It's why this new IRA will fail.

Farawayhome

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Not here though. Ireland isn't part of the UK - success.

Part of Ireland is still part of the UK - failure.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the acts of the crown forces (who these 'lads' object to) had nothing to do with this?

The GFA didn't get the agreement of all. We all know this, why the surprise? You were told this would happen.

Christ almighty, blaming the PSNI for the journalist's death? Why don't you blame MTV as well?

The person who pulled the trigger had a choice not to. S/he exercised the choice to pull the trigger.

The person who gave them a gun had a choice, so did the people who organised the operation, so do the internet posters who speak out of the sides of their mouths defending and excusing these people and trying to blame others for these despicable actions.

OldMrBrennan83

Farawayhome wrote: »

Part of Ireland is still part of the UK - failure.

The Constitution of Ireland wrote:

The State

article 4
The name of the state is Éire, or, in the english
language, Ireland.

article 5
ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state.

Seems fairly clear reading to me.

Success.

Atoms for Peace

It's a pity those who pour scorn on saoradh aren't as consistent in their contemnation of their bedfellows in the middle east.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dissident-party-saoradh-opens-office-in-belfast-35077888.html

Farawayhome

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Seems fairly clear reading to me.

Success.

6 counties were left behind - Failure.

upupup

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

We've a state free from Britain. They succeeded for me anyway.

Me too!....happy to be a citizen of the republic of Ireland and member of the EU:)

MrFresh

Tomas81 wrote: »

All Oglachs are sworn in off the greenbook.

Why do you think this current batch of dissidents would follow the rules set out previously?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Christ almighty, blaming the PSNI for the journalist's death? Why don't you blame MTV as well?

The person who pulled the trigger had a choice not to. S/he exercised the choice to pull the trigger.

The person who gave them a gun had a choice, so did the people who organised the operation, so do the internet posters who speak out of the sides of their mouths defending and excusing these people and trying to blame others for these despicable actions.

Giving a 'reason' is neither an excuse or condoning.

There is a reason why a British paratrooper opens fire on civilians and stating it would not be condoning it or excusing or talking out of the side of my mouth, would it?

So less of the indignant ranting please.

Larbre34

Farawayhome wrote: »

The PIRA had huge levels of support. Sinn Féin and the PIRA are not the same thing despite the independent telling you otherwise. There's no chance they could have successfully fought a 30 year war without the support. It's why this new IRA will fail.

They didn't successfully fight a 30 year war.

I think by any yardstick, success in a war would be the surrender or destruction of an enemy and the gain or regain of territory and assets. Even as we speak none of that has changed. The Stormont assembly (when its convened) came out of a background of peace and a political process, but you couldn't even describe it as joint authority.

Anteayer

BBFAN wrote: »

I'm torn on this. Whilst I can't understand why more people didn't stand up to them in the streets of Dublin and Cork at the same time maybe it's better they're just ignored.

If they were attacked it would just feed their agenda.

I'd largely suspect they don't because they feel very intimidated by them. I know I would be fairly concerned about protesting a march an armed organisation.

Tomas81

Statement released this morning by the NIRA claiming responsibility.

Ash.J.Williams

Tomas81 wrote: »

Statement released this morning by the NIRA claiming responsibility.

And dropped like a lead balloon

Tomas81

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

And dropped like a lead balloon

Yeah ridiculous statement didn't really get into it. Just their volunteers engaged enemy and she was hit. Pretty **** statement didn't explain why the leadership felt it was needed for a young man to go out and fire up a street the width of a lane.

Ash.J.Williams

Tomas81 wrote: »

Yeah ridiculous statement didn't really get into it. Just their volunteers engaged enemy and she was hit. Pretty **** statement didn't explain why the leadership felt it was needed for a young man to go out and fire up a street the width of a lane.

The language seems so bygone "she was standing beside the enemy" etc

janfebmar

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The language seems so bygone "she was standing beside the enemy" etc

I blame those who indoctrinated him, who brainwashed him in to believing it was commendable to attack "crown forces" etc. It was wrong several days ago, it was wrong several decades ago.

Pissartist

janfebmar wrote: »

I blame those who indoctrinated him, who brainwashed him in to believing it was commendable to attack "crown forces" etc. It was wrong several days ago, it was wrong several decades ago.

Yes i agree it was wrong seven days ago, but several decades ago it was the only option.

seamus

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The language seems so bygone "she was standing beside the enemy" etc

It's victim blaming. That her murder is justifiable because she was standing beside the real target.

They're nothing but scum. Criminals playing at soldiers.

Farawayhome

Larbre34 wrote: »

They didn't successfully fight a 30 year war.

I think by any yardstick, success in a war would be the surrender or destruction of an enemy and the gain or regain of territory and assets. Even as we speak none of that has changed. The Stormont assembly (when its convened) came out of a background of peace and a political process, but you couldn't even describe it as joint authority.

Before the war, Nationalists were living in an apartheid state. Unionists were burning them out of their homes, the British armed forces were shooting innocents dead on our streets. The PIRA slaughtering over 1,000 of them softened their cough. You have to remember the PIRA were fighting the British armed forces, the ruc, various extreme unionist murder gangs etc. Without support, they'd never have been able to successfully take them on.

janfebmar

Pissartist wrote: »

Yes i agree it was wrong seven days ago, but several decades ago it was the only option.

Several decades ago the ballot box was the answer, not bombing children, shoppers, people in pubs and reztaurants, shooting people in churches. Do not forget the extremist republicans also killed gardai here, killed a politiician here in the Republic, kidnapped etc

Tomas81

janfebmar wrote: »

Several decades ago the ballot box was the answer, not bombing children, shoppers, people in pubs and reztaurants, shooting people in churches. Do not forget the extremist republicans also killed gardai here, killed a politiician here in the Republic, kidnapped etc

No 20 years ago the ballot box became relevant. Until then the only thing the Brits understood was engagement. Now is not a viable arena for Rned struggle

seamus

janfebmar wrote: »

Several decades ago the ballot box was the answer, not bombing children, shoppers, people in pubs and reztaurants, shooting people in churches. Do not forget the extremist republicans also killed gardai here, killed a politiician here in the Republic, kidnapped etc

Violence is never an answer, but it was understandable, at the very least.

It's one thing to talk about the ballot box, but when the state refuses to allow you to cast a vote, when peaceful protests are met with state-authorised violence and murder, when you are denied the right to work & the right to live peacefully because of your heritage, when your women are raped, your children are beaten, and your friends are murdered, just because they belong to a certain ethnicity...then it's incredibly difficult for the average human being to contain their rage.

There's a reason Mahatma Ghandi is so revered. Because his style of peaceful non-compliance is most definitely the exception, and not the rule. An example of the head conquering the heart and achieving a better outcome.

For most of the rest of humanity, the heart conquers the head when they're being oppressed and brutalised, and we lash out with violence and anger.

Violence and anger are never justifiable. But they are understandable.

These latest idiots though, have nothing. A bunch of scumbags reared on old anti-British stories by scumbag parents, grandparents, uncles & parents. I wouldn't be surprised if half of them are Americans who've been radicalised and come over to fight for something they don't even understand.

Ash.J.Williams

janfebmar wrote: »

Several decades ago the ballot box was the answer, not bombing children, shoppers, people in pubs and reztaurants, shooting people in churches. Do not forget the extremist republicans also killed gardai here, killed a politiician here in the Republic, kidnapped etc

Not quite, when you are a second class citizen there is no ballot box. What I believe happened was there was a need for armed protection and it served its purpose until the ira became established and then they effectively became a pain in the hole to everyone, pushing their weight around acting the hard man.

Farawayhome

janfebmar wrote: »

Several decades ago the ballot box was the answer, not bombing children, shoppers, people in pubs and reztaurants, shooting people in churches. Do not forget the extremist republicans also killed gardai here, killed a politiician here in the Republic, kidnapped etc

You've basically described the actions of the British side during the war, only they did more of it.