"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 2 "A Knight of the 7 Kin" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Baggly

Nerdlingr wrote:

They are, but the iron born are all back with Yara on the islands. My surprise is that they picked Theon, or didn't reject his proposal, as a one man bodyguard for the most prized asset the living have.

He has an honour guard with him. The idea is to draw the night king in so they can't really stack Brans guard too much.

bur

The fireside scenes were beautiful, i just wish more of the two episodes felt that natural and effortless as so much is just awkward or rushed.

Nerdlingr

Pter wrote: »

He has an honour guard with him. The idea is to draw the night king in so they can't really stack Brans guard too much.

Yeah didn't realise he had a few with him. Thought it was a one man show!

scoobydude

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

What’s your favourite season 8 of a show ?

Easy... Simpsons season 8 brought us some of the greatest moments in comedy

podgemonster

That episode was beautiful, i felt like I was saying goodbye to friends. Took me awhile to process and found it even more sweet on a second watch this evening. This is one episode I will re-watch with warmth many years from now still as teary eyed as I am now.

On the surface it may appear like filler what we see will be the final characters arcs of characters that have been with us for most of a decade. As Bran says 'how do you know there's an afterwards?' Many will fall in the next episode, characters that have been apart of this show for so long.

As a viewer, the director draws you in to that room by fire so you feel like your sitting there with them, with bruised seasoned "knights of the seven kingdoms" as they lament and bond and smile for what could be the last time. Id theorize that the song about Jenny is almost directed at...Us, the viewer. Dancing with old ghosts, some lost some new, some forgotten, like Tyrion you don't want that night to end, you want to watch this dance of dragons saga go on and on. You dont want to see the end, you dont want to say goodbye, you never really do. This episode was our chance to say goodbye and watch our knights march out to battle.

But i never wanted to leave
Never wanted to leave
Never wanted to leave

PhiloCypher

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

• If this is the Lord of Light's battle... where is the Lord of Light? Who is his champion?

It will be revealed during the course of the battle for Winterfell I'd imagine. Would have been a bit premature to reveal in this episode. Besides most people would be Azor who?

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]What about the Night King's dragon?

What about him?

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]Why are you planning to charge the ranks of the dead with your cavalry? Feels like a bit of a waste.

Why would it be a waste if they are armed with Dragon glass spears and arrows.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]They have been focusing all their energy on making weapons that can kill white walkers, and being able to kill white walkers is important, but the vast bulk of their forces are wights. What's the plan to deal with them?

Dragon glass kills wights as well as White walkers, Sam killed a white walker with one to protect Gilly 3 or 4 seasons ago, and someone (dont recall who) killed the Wight they brought to Kings Landing with one last season. Problem is they might not have enough if to kill all the wights, which is why they plan to target the Nights King as if they take him out the wight army will perish with him. Think you might be due a rewatch between now and next Monday , you seem to have missed a few details.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]Would it be wiser to just bring all your forces behind the walls?

They wouldn't all fit in Winterfell, it's not the size of Kings Landing, why do you think they are camped outside the walls. Besides castles wouldn't protect them from the Nights Kings dragon anymore then they did against Aegon and his when he conquered the 7 kingdoms. So why sacrifice your mobility.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]What happens if the Night King doesn't just so give battle, but just lays siege to Winterfell? Winterfell can sustain that bloated population for little more than several days.

What if what if what if. So which of the great reunion scenes 7 years in the making, paying off 7 years of characterisation would you sacrifice for your dry turgid scene of a bunch of people talking us through the various scenarios in which they are utterly ****ed, how much time do we devote to tactical what ifs?

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

[*]What happens when the dead breach the walls?

Were you really expecting them to lay out their entire plan for the audience in this episode. There's a thing called show, don't tell. We'll find out what tricks they have up their slieves in the next episode.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Can ground touched by dragon fire act as a ward against the dead, in the same way that metal tempered with dragon fire (valyrian steel) has magical properties? Can Bran warg into a dragon; can he potentially fight the Night King for control over the Night King's dragon? Can the Night King even approach the Godswood, seeing that it is an area imbued with some power from the Old Gods? Nobody here seems to care

Or alternatively they're just not interested in answering them to your exact schedule, or feel that every question some bloke on the Internet thinks is worthy of answering actually is.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Also is the Night's Watch literally only 2 guys now? Literally?!

Did you expect them to have a scene ofJon to shake each ones hand as they came in so you could keep count? Can we not just assume however many were left made it back in dribs and drabs from the various wall forts. Stop taking everything so literally.

Nerdlingr

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I don't get why they left the most cowardly man in westeros to defend Bran. If Bran's right and the night king is coming for the three eyed raven, surely someone half decent in hand to hand combat would be preferable to an guy that has continually shat his pants and ran away.
Bran is the main target, their main asset and they left him pretty wide open to attack.
Everyone just agreed to it far too easily for my liking.
"I'll defend him"..."what, no objections?" Grand!

But I guess it fits theons redemptive character arc.

Yeah, makes little sense. 20 unproven Ironborn protecting Bran, with only Theon guaranteed loyal to the cause, and none of them have ever even seen a wight or a White Walker as far as I remember.


If Bran is so important, by his own admission, then maybe throw him on the back of a dragon and take him over to Valyria or something for a while. If that's where fire comes from, and in the lore, a Targaryen couldn't fly her dragon over the wall into where ice came from, then maybe the NK can't go there. We've already seen Drogon fly over Valyria so we know he can go there.

And anyways, since the only real way to kill the Night King's dragon is with the other two dragons (no one has even talked about an alternative method), isolate him from all of his mates and their ice spears. Set up a trap and have Jon on a dragon waiting somewhere while Dany lures him in.


The other thing that's a pity is that sure, Cersei didn't join them, but surely they can still procure some wildfire from KL, or should have when they were down there. It was pivotal in the Battle of Blackwater Bay (Tyrion knows this), and is even more obvious against enemies who burst into flame. And why aren't they making big crossbows when Dany has seen the damage they can do?

IMO, the NK is definitely going to KL since they haven't even bothered to talk about his dragon, and the other WWs are going to lay Winterfell under seige.

Totally off the wall idea: It would also be pretty cool if Qyburn managed to kill the Night King in King's Landing (the name is perfect. the NK lands on the ground falling of his dragon) with a dragonglass arrow from the massive crossbow, and then brought the dragon back to life to fight for Cersei, who has won the hearts of the people for saving humanity.

J. Marston

I love the in-universe songs. In the books they're just words on a page but hearing them brought to life is amazing. Pod's singing of Jenny's Song is up there for one of my favourite moments in the show.

facehugger99

Thought it was a massive step up from Episode 1 - really enjoyable.

I did find the Arya sex-scene a bit icky though.

leggo

Lads the two main characters on their dragons are also going to be protecting Bran.

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Tazzimus wrote: »

Jaime: "Make me a hand blade of obsidian"
Gendry: "What?"
Jaime: "T-1000 bitch"

I want this.

I want him to have a full length Valyrian steel bastard sword arm attachment so he can go swooping into battle with all of his old skill.

Speaking of Jaime and swords, a nice detail was that he knighted Brienne with Widows Wail in the hall of Winterfell and she was wearing Oathkeeper. Both of those swords were forged by Tywin Lannister from Ned Starks Ice.

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Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, makes little sense. 20 unproven Ironborn protecting Bran, with only Theon guaranteed loyal to the cause, and none of them have ever even seen a wight or a White Walker as far as I remember.

You have totally missed the point. Did you miss the entire conversation around this?

They are using Bran to draw out the Night King. Too much protection and the Night King wont expose himself.

In that regard the Iron Born are the perfect foil - they do offer some protection, but not enough to put off the approaching Night King.

As for not seeing a wight or a white walker - they know the most important thing they need to know - they can be killed by fire, so presumably their archery skills will be utilised with flaming arrows.

Meanwhile, they are keeping the dragons at a distance enough so as not to put the Night King off, but so they can go in pursuit of him as needed.

s7ryf3925pivug

episode 3 is 82 min

PhiloCypher

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And why aren't they making big crossbows when Dany has seen the damage they can do?

How do you know they haven't. Everybody seems to want the characters to walk us through their entire battle plans and tactical what ifs, but ask yourself, what would be more effective on screen, a dry turgid battle planning scene or seeing their plans unfold unspoiled on screen during the battle in a series of **** yeh moments ?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

IMO, the NK is definitely going to KL since they haven't even bothered to talk about his dragon, and the other WWs are going to lay Winterfell under seige.

The theory that the NK will bypass Winterfell does hold some weight for several reasons.

A) Neither he nore his dragon were seen or heard in the final scene of the episode.
they've pulled this tactical bait n switch before with the unsullied landing at an abandoned Casterly Rock while the Lannisters were off destroying house Tyrell.
C) It could see the fulfillment of the vision Dany had in the house of the undying of a damaged Iron Throne room covered in Snow.

On the other hand Bran seems pretty sure the Nights King will try and take him out and he seems to know his stuff.

Sam is so dead now. He is the only one with proof of Jon's heritage, Danny is going to take him out (and prob Gilly, little Sam) causing Jon and Tyrion to go against her.

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Deleted User wrote: »

Sam is so dead now. He is the only one with proof of Jon's heritage, Danny is going to take him out (and prob Gilly, little Sam) causing Jon and Tyrion to go against her.

Sam is one of the few people likely to make it out alive IMO.

Who else is going to write down the song of ice and fire?

The proof of Jons heritage is in the Citadel in a septons private diary.

Keyzer

PhuckHugh wrote: »

As someone who served in the FCA I can appreciate that calm / eerie feeling before battle when you question the ridiculousness of life.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA......





Jesus, that's a great joke...

spurious

I would have liked Arya to have had sex with Pod. If it might only be the once, she may as well have the best.

Daith

Deleted User wrote: »

Sam is so dead now. He is the only one with proof of Jon's heritage, Danny is going to take him out (and prob Gilly, little Sam) causing Jon and Tyrion to go against her.

Doubt it. He says that if the Night Kings goal is to erase the world's memory then Bran is the target. Sets Sam up to become new memory for the world after Bran's death but not the Three Eyed Raven, thus breaking that cycle.

yourdeadwright

Hiding the women and children where there is dead people surely someone can see how this is not a good idea when your foe brings the dead back to fight for him ?

Also why did no one mention to Jon that the Knight King has a Dragon ?

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....... wrote: »

You have totally missed the point. Did you miss the entire conversation around this?

They are using Bran to draw out the Night King. Too much protection and the Night King wont expose himself.

In that regard the Iron Born are the perfect foil - they do offer some protection, but not enough to put off the approaching Night King.

Beric and the Hound et al. should be protecting Bran, considering they have seen and fought these guys before. If Bran is where the NK is expected, the best of the best should be waiting. It's ludicrous to suggest the NK would avoid Bran because of the Brotherhood.

And as far a lot of the cast are concerned, the only Ironborn they know (Euron) to have seen a wight instantly walked away and said "Fuk that. I'm away off home." so it makes no sense to have a random 20 of them with Theon protecting their brother from the NK himself. Even if some now know that Euron is helping Cersei, they don't know whether or not he actually walked away in fear.


The Ironborn are protecting Bran because the showrunners simply want those guys out in the big battle. That strategy being used by the defenders is based on what it will look like to us, the viewers.

PhiloCypher wrote: »

How do you know they haven't. Everybody seems to want the characters to walk us through their entire battle plans and tactical what ifs, but ask yourself, what would be more effective on screen, a dry turgid battle planning scene or seeing their plans unfold unspoiled on screen during the battle in a series of **** yeh moments ?

They're walking us through the little ninja's weapon plenty. And they walked us through the first big crossbow as well. I'm not going to assume that they're making a big crossbow since they haven't mentioned the dragon once apart from Bran.

Westeros is about to have a battle like no other in thousands and thousands of years.. A battle with the White Walkers south of the wall. And all we know is Breinne's hill is pretty good. So yeah, I'd like to be walked through the preparations for a couple of minutes. Could some information not be garnered from Tormund as to how the WWs attacked Last Hearth? Was there evidence he used the dragon at all? Did they make it over the walls? Did giants smash the walls? All potentially interesting conversation.

Baggly

Id love to know everything too, but i also enjoy the suspense that is being generated in not knowing.

So we cant have everything we want, basically.

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Deleted User wrote: »

It's ludicrous to suggest the NK would avoid Bran because of the Brotherhood.

Who suggested that? Oh hang on, you made it up didnt you? Ah yes. Carry on.

The suspense leading up to Bronn firing the crossbow was far far greater than now wondering "Hmm, maybe they did make one. Or maybe they didn't." That was minutes of fear and anxiousness.

So for that reason, I'm assuming they didn't make one.

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....... wrote: »

Who suggested that? Oh hang on, you made it up didnt you? Ah yes. Carry on.

You have totally missed the point. Did you miss the entire conversation around this?

They are using Bran to draw out the Night King. Too much protection and the Night King wont expose himself.

In that regard the Iron Born are the perfect foil


You're saying they're perfect because they don't offer too much protection. Wouldn't the Brotherhood be even more perfect?

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Deleted User wrote: »

You have totally missed the point. Did you miss the entire conversation around this?

They are using Bran to draw out the Night King. Too much protection and the Night King wont expose himself.

In that regard the Iron Born are the perfect foil


You're saying they're perfect because they don't offer too much protection. Wouldn't the Brotherhood be even more perfect?

I didnt say anything about the Brotherhood.

But if youre asking, I think theyd be the wrong people in the Godswood. Far more useful out in the field.

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....... wrote: »

I didnt say anything about the Brotherhood.

But if youre asking, I think theyd be the wrong people in the Godswood. Far more useful out in the field.

The entire plan basically relies upon killing the Night King. Jon said it himself in the episode that getting to the NK somehow would be their best shot.

So I think it would perfectly sensible for the best of the best to wait exactly where Bran says the NK will go. I just don't see how it could be logical in any other way.

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Deleted User wrote: »

The entire plan basically relies upon killing the Night King. Jon said it himself in the episode that getting to the NK somehow would be their best shot.

So I think it would perfectly sensible for the best of the best to wait exactly where Bran says the NK will go. I just don't see how it could be logical in any other way.

They will be using a dragon to try and kill the Night King - so it would waste the Brotherhood to just have them there waiting to be killed by him.

Theon knows this is probably a suicide mission. Its his final act of redemption.

I know from your posts here that you disagree with most decisions in the show and in fact I think you said you were ready to stop watching it after the most recent episode (4 episodes from the very end :rolleyes:), so Ill leave it there, nothing I say will satisfy your need to constantly criticise.

theteal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also why did no one mention to Jon that the Knight King has a Dragon ?

Bran said it when they all arrived at Winterfell in the previous episode. Annoyingly nobody seemed to make a fuss about it though

Daith

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Also why did no one mention to Jon that the Knight King has a Dragon ?

Bran did in the first episode. Wasn't mentioned since though.

Dial Hard

yourdeadwright wrote:

Also why did no one mention to Jon that the Knight King has a Dragon ?

Bran told them all about Viserion in episode 1.

Baggly

Not sure if its been mentioned, but Bran told him about it in ep1

Nerdlingr

I think Bran mentioned something.

Paddy Cow

Deleted User wrote: »

Sam is so dead now. He is the only one with proof of Jon's heritage, Danny is going to take him out (and prob Gilly, little Sam) causing Jon and Tyrion to go against her.

Howland Reed (Meera and Jojen's father) also knows. He was at the tower when Ned took Jon from Leanna.

Daith

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Howland Reed (Meera and Jojen's father) also knows. He was at the tower when Ned took Jon from Leanna.

"Oh, so your brother, best friend and Ned Stark's friend all say the same thing? How convenient. "

Daith

Daith wrote: »

"Oh, so your brother, best friend and Ned Stark's friend all say the same thing? How convenient. "

Same has it from a tower book. That's why, imo, he is at threat

Baggly

IF Dany were inclined (not sure she is yet), then there is no way she would kill the others and not Jon too.

duploelabs

As far as I can see, winterfell is sitting on a massive trojan horse. All the Night King has to do is walk up (out of arrow range), raise his arms, and all the dead that are buried in the crypts rise up having bypassed all the defences

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Deleted User wrote: »

Same has it from a tower book. That's why, imo, he is at threat

Yeah but the septons private diary still exists in the citadel.

And given that they have found it written down once - who knows where else it might be written down.

Howland Reed might have written it down. The woman attending to the birth might have told someone.

Rheagar might have told someone before he died at the trident.

The fact of it exists and she cant erase that.

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duploelabs wrote: »

As far as I can see, winterfell is sitting on a massive trojan horse. All the Night King has to do is walk up (out of arrow range), raise his arms, and all the dead that are buried in the crypts rise up having bypassed all the defences

I wonder how many dead are in the crypts and how many would be in any condition to be a threat?

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....... wrote: »

Yeah but the septons private diary still exists in the citadel.

And given that they have found it written down once - who knows where else it might be written down.

Howland Reed might have written it down. The woman attending to the birth might have told someone.

Rheagar might have told someone before he died at the trident.

The fact of it exists and she cant erase that.

Since when is Danny sensible and prone to long term thinking?

Baggly

I also wonder does the night king or WW or wight have to kill someone for them to become a wight themselves? Apologies if its just my leaky memory, but i cant remember someone who was dead and buried years ago coming back.

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....... wrote: »

I wonder how many dead are in the crypts and how many would be in any condition to be a threat?

Yeah I was thinking that it would be a mental place to put them but there are only a few there (the lords and ladies) and most would not be anything but Skeletal now. Maybe zombie Bean?

Baggly

*Bean rises*

*Takes a step*

*Head falls off*

*Body stumbles around looking for head, ala Looney Tunes*

Loafing Oaf

Pter wrote: »

*Bean rises*

*Takes a step*

*Head falls off*

*Body stumbles around looking for head, ala Looney Tunes*

One does not simply walk out of the Winterfell Crypt.

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Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking that it would be a mental place to put them but there are only a few there (the lords and ladies) and most would not be anything but Skeletal now. Maybe zombie Bean?

Only his bones are there. The silent sisters cleaned them and put them in a box that Baelish gave to Catelyn.

Id be more worried about mummified remains that are more or less in one piece (if any exist).

I think the crypts do not turn out to be safe, but maybe not for the reasons we might think.

podgemonster

Isn't Roose Bolton buried somewhere in Winterfell. Poor chap, poisoned by his enemies.

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podgemonster wrote: »

Isn't Roose Bolton buried somewhere in Winterfell. Poor chap, poisoned by his enemies.

Oh yeah, he'd be......meaty....

Nerdlingr

Pter wrote: »

*Bean rises*

*Takes a step*

*Head falls off*

*Body stumbles around looking for head, ala Looney Tunes*

Did they send his head back with his body I wonder? Last time we saw it was on a spike in Kings Landing!

Baggly

I think if the head had been held back from the Starks it would have been mentioned when they were saying the body was brought back. Could be wrong on that though.