"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 2 "A Knight of the 7 Kin" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Baggly

The westeros version of Ireland must have qualified for a major tournament.

The White Wolf

Varys surely must have one last ace and it would be cool if it involved the golden company. Conleth Hill has been too good to go out in the Crypts next week without having one last moment to remember.

Conall Cernach

The White Wolf wrote: »

Varys surely must have one last ace and it would be cool if it involved the golden company. Conleth Hill has been too good to go out in the Crypts next week without having one last moment to remember.

Yeah, he has done nothing this series so far and he didn't get a cosy fireside drink either so I'd say he's safe next week.

Bonzo Delaney

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Yeah, he has done nothing this series so far and he didn't get a cosy fireside drink either so I'd say he's safe next week.

I over looked that
He would of been a great addition to the fireside chat with his witty intelligent quips and his character bounces of Tyroin to great effect.

leggo

golfball37 wrote: »

The Golden Company are famous for never having broken a contract, it would be silly to have them switch sides last minute imo.

That makes it almost certain that they're going to. We don't follow stories to hear about things that have happened as they always have, we follow to hear about things that have never happened before. It's the Law of Chekhov's Gun. For a further example in the show: The Wall, which has stood for thousands of years and protected the realm. It was always going to fall, same way they're absolutely going to break the contract. It's just a case of how, when and why.

Plus, as others have said, they did this exact trope with 'never breaking a contract' in the books.

The White Wolf

Just realised it was the Valyrian steel of Ice that graced the shoulders of Brienne. Nicely done.

RobbingBandit

What happened to Jofferys sword that was the other part of Ice.

Nerdlingr

RobbingBandit wrote: »

What happened to Jofferys sword that was the other part of Ice.

Widow's wail? Jaime has it no ? Thought that was the sword he knights Brienne with.

Sparko

RobbingBandit wrote: »

What happened to Jofferys sword that was the other part of Ice.

Ice became two swords - Widows Wail which was
originally Joffrey's and now Jamie's, and Oathkeeper which was originally Jamie's and now Brienne's.

Tazzimus

Correct, Brienne has Jaime's.

DaeryssaOne

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Widow's wail? Jaime has it no ? Thought that was the sword he knights Brienne with.

Yeah Tywin had Ice made into two swords - Widow's Wail was Joffrey's and Jaime took it after he died as he gave his sword, Oathkeeper, to Brienne.

There's enough valaryian steel in Winterfell at this stage it seems like a common thing when there's really only a few swords throughout Westeros made of it!

Tazzimus

4 swords and a dagger isn't it?
Widows wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw and Heartsbane
Then the un-named dagger that Arya has.

Sparko

Tazzimus wrote: »

4 swords and a dagger isn't it?
Widows wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw and Heartsbane
Then the un-named dagger that Arya has.

No, Longclaw is a Mormont heirloom and the dagger was unrelated too, it appears before Ned is killed and Ice is melted down.

Trent Houseboat

Tazzimus wrote: »

4 swords and a dagger isn't it?
Widows wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw and Heartsbane
Then the un-named dagger that Arya has.

The dagger that Arya has is the Valyrian Steel one that was used to try to kill Bran. Baelish gave it to Bran, Bran gave it to Arya and Arya opened Baelish's throat with it.
Unless you mean the weapon that Gendry made for her. I think that was Dragon Glass, and it was a double ended spear(possibly detachable based on the sketch). Needle is just plain old steel.

DaeryssaOne

Tazzimus wrote: »

4 swords and a dagger isn't it?
Widows wail, Oathkeeper, Longclaw and Heartsbane
Then the un-named dagger that Arya has.

Yep I think that's all the Valaryian steel that's in Winterfell now. There's obviously a few more scattered across the kingdoms but they've got a good portion of them there now which will hopefully be a good thing!

Tazzimus

Sparko wrote: »

No, Longclaw is a Mormont heirloom and the dagger was unrelated too, it appears before Ned is killed and Ice is melted down.

I was referring to the line about plenty of Valeryian steel being in Wintefell, that's what's there at the mo.

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

The dagger that Arya has is the Valyrian Steel one that was used to try to kill Bran. Baelish gave it to Bran, Bran gave it to Arya and Arya opened Baelish's throat with it.
Unless you mean the weapon that Gendry made for her. I think that was Dragon Glass, and it was a double ended spear(possibly detachable based on the sketch). Needle is just plain old steel.

Nope, I mean the dagger, I know who used to own it, it didn't have a name, at least not one that we heard

Gbear

DaeryssaOne wrote: »

Yeah Tywin had Ice made into two swords - Widow's Wail was Joffrey's and Jaime took it after he died as he gave his sword, Oathkeeper, to Brienne.

There's enough valaryian steel in Winterfell at this stage it seems like a common thing when there's really only a few swords throughout Westeros made of it!

Lyn Corbray and Lady Forlorn are there in spirit.

I'm fairly sure in the books Bloodraven will give Bran Dark Sister as well and Arya will wield it. Or Meera, perhaps.

They're going to have the bulk of the Westerosi Valerian Steel swords on site.

DaeryssaOne

Tazzimus wrote: »

Nope, I mean the dagger, I know who used to own it, it didn't have a name, at least not one that we heard

Keep thinking of The Hound's opinion of the 'lots of people' who name their swords....
'aye lots of c**ts' :pac:

.......

Course Berics flaming sword is nearly as good as valarian steel when it comes to fighting dead guys.

Daith

....... wrote: »

Course Berics flaming sword is nearly as good as valarian steel when it comes to fighting dead guys.

For wights yeah but it won't do anything to the White Walkers (I think?)

storker

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Phuck me, I've heard it all now... How many battles did you fight in in the FCA?? Being dug in on cemetery hill doesn't count.

The FCA were at Gettysburg? :eek:

.......

Daith wrote: »

For wights yeah but it won't do anything to the White Walkers (I think?)

No, in fact, didn't the first WW that Jon Snow fought at Hardhome walk through flames and put them out?

storker

....... wrote: »

Pity she didn't have a go on Podricks magic cock but he was too busy singing ballads.

Maybe they should put a dragonglass condom on him and send him forth to swing it at the army of the dead.

.......

storker wrote: »

Maybe they should a dragonglass condom on him and send him forth to swing it at the army of the dead.

Put him fighting next to Grey Worm. The cockless and the cockfull.

Trent Houseboat

....... wrote: »

No, in fact, didn't the first WW that Jon Snow fought at Hardhome walk through flames and put them out?

Yeah, same thing happened at that battle on the frozen lake. Flames, just parted in front of him, so a regular flame will not do the job.

Though we don't know how Beric sets his sword aflame. I think Thoros in the books did it with wildfire and Robert had to keep buying him new swords because they kept breaking.

check_six

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Though we don't know how Beric sets his sword aflame. I think Thoros in the books did it with wildfire and Robert had to keep buying him new swords because they kept breaking.

Was it something to do with his blood? Doesn't he run the blade through his hand before it bursts into flame?

Tazzimus

His blood sets it on fire. Lord of Light powers and all that.

Trent Houseboat

check_six wrote: »

Was it something to do with his blood? Doesn't he run the blade through his hand before it bursts into flame?

That sounds about right.

.......

Tazzimus wrote: »

His blood sets it on fire. Lord of Light powers and all that.

It used to, but he didn't do that North of the Wall.

Witcher

....... wrote: »

It used to, but he didn't do that North of the Wall.

The facts beg to differ;

4:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbiz62bbpc

.......

Witcher wrote: »

The facts beg to differ;

4:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLbiz62bbpc

They certainly do.

0.28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3UpBKOhE4

Tazzimus

....... wrote: »

They certainly do.

0.28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3UpBKOhE4

I'd put that down to error more than anything, fairly sure he's done it the normal way every other time

.......

Tazzimus wrote: »

I'd put that down to error more than anything, fairly sure he's done it the normal way every other time

Gotta love boards.ie, you provide the proof only to be told its an error!

According to this article - he doesnt need blood in the show:

https://winteriscoming.net/2019/04/17/how-does-beric-dondarrions-flaming-sword-work-richard-dormer-explains/

The first time we saw Beric Dondarrion (Richard Dormer) ignite his sword in flames, he used his own blood, cutting his hand and then lighting up the dark cave where he was fighting the Hound during his trial by combat in season 3.

We didn’t see Beric pull off this trick again until season 8, only this time he (and Thoros of Myr) merely waved their hands over their swords to ignite them. Later Dondarrion would even forgo that action, flicking his sword on as if by some hidden switch. So how exactly does his magic lightsaber flaming sword work? Dormer explained it to INSIDER this way: “He says two words in Valyrian which means ‘god’s light.’ And that makes it poof.”

In fact - the source for the above article:

https://www.thisisinsider.com/game-of-thrones-how-beric-lights-fire-sword-2019-4

says:

Dormer also said Beric can merely think about the spell (and not say it out loud) to get the sword to catch on fire.

"When he's in the trial [on season three], he uses blood to light it, but he doesn't need blood and he doesn't need to do any of that," Dormer said. "He just goes [gestures as if holding a sword] and thinks about the Lord of Light."

Dormer pronounced the two Valyrian words for us, which sounded to us like "assundeh-oh."

So there you go. No blood needed, no words even needed, just thoughts................

Tazzimus

.... I meant error as in from the show side of things, now it just seems more like lazy writing than anything.
Books never explained how he did it (that I'm aware of) but thinking a spell just seems a bit lazy considering R'hllor is all about sacrifices, hence the cutting himself to ignite the sword.

Plus those articles raise more questions than anything;
Why did he use blood the first time if he doesn't need to
Why does he wave his hand over his sword like a cheap magician if he doesn't need to

It's all very inconsistent.



Anyway..

.......

Tazzimus wrote: »

It's all very inconsistent.

And that its not even clear within the show but something you have to learn from an interview with the actor.....

I agree, lazy writing and inconsistent.

homosapien91

....... wrote: »

Yeah but the septons private diary still exists in the citadel.

And given that they have found it written down once - who knows where else it might be written down.

Sam told Dany he had stolen some books from the Citadel, could this have been one of them and she will put 2 & 2 together?

Tacitus Kilgore

homosapien91 wrote: »

Sam told Dany he had stolen some books from the Citadel, could this have been one of them and she will put 2 & 2 together?

Wonder will she be adding him to the list of barbecued Tarlys?

Conall Cernach

....... wrote: »

So there you go. No blood needed, no words even needed, just thoughts................

Presumably he has already sacrificed enough to be granted this power or maybe the sacrifice will be expected later.


As an aside the 1980s classic fantasy RPG Runequest had a similar way of getting spells from gods through sacrificing POW which was something like lifeforce.

enfant terrible

Does anyone but me want the last image of GOT's, to be Cersei on the throne with an evil smile on her face?

Loafing Oaf

enfant terrible wrote: »

Does anyone but me want the last image of GOT's, to be Cersei on the throne with an evil smile on her face?

Like Atia in the final scene of HBO's Rome, except as the actual queen rather than just the queen mother...

I've predicted a final victory for Cersei so yes I would like to see that if only for the aftertiming thrill:p but I'm struggling to see how it happens the way the story is developing...

Is anyone else thinking that Dany could go Mad Queen by the end? I definitely got that feeling in both episodes so far this season, more so in the second.

In the first episode, she was laying down the "Sansa doesn't have to respect me but she will obey me" dictate to Jon in the Winterfell courtyard when they were interrupted. There was also the injection of conflict into Jon and Dany's relationship via Sam and the toasted Tarleys (note to self: decent band name)

In episode 2, by the end, she mentally checked-out of war proceedings once Jon told her about his Targaryen lineage. The NK's army are gathering outside the Winterfell walls, all of our protagonists are taking their starting positions or mustering for the battle, but Dany is just cutting Jon a look and storming off. This reminds me of the question Jon was asked about Dany - Would she give up her crown to save her people? Well given her apparent inability to push her personal quest aside once the Whitewalker shít hits the fan, I would suggest that no, she would not give up her crown to save her people.

She has been fully hellbent and intent on taking the Iron Throne. "Those who crave power should be among the last to obtain it"...something like that the old saying goes. Well for 7 and a bit seasons now, Dany has been craving that power. Meanwhile, we have also seen examples of those craving power and wanting it for their own selfish means rather than the good of the people...like Joffery, Cersei, Littlefinger, Ramsey, Theon, Stannis (f**k it being 'his duty', he still craved it) - these characters have all displayed examples of why they should not have power. Meanwhile, the likes of Jon Snow and Tommen, who had it put upon them and did not crave it, they were honorable characters with good intentions who could have gone on to do well for the people they serve. Poor Tommen was just played like a pawn and not cut out for the game.

There is good in Dany of course, but her motives in Westeros are now questionable for me. Sure, she parked her war with Cersei to go North and fight that battle, but in the latest episode she admitted to Sansa "I'm here because I love your brother"...not because "The North is one of my Seven Kingdoms and I will die to protect it". Well now that "your brother" is a threat to Dany's claim, well he actually obliterates it, it will be interesting to see just how much Dany cares about the people of the North and Westeros.

Fans are rightfully pointing out how many times it was mentioned in this latest episode that 'They'll be safe down in the crypts', and its possible foreshadowing implications. On a longer time-span, it's been commented on many times by the likes of Tyrion and Varys that 'Dany isn't her father...she isn't the Mad King'. Well, is that not foreshadowing similar to 'The crypts are safe' but just on a longer time-span?

There is good in Dany of course and she has morals, but we've seen her ideals and plans fail badly when put to real-world use in the past - In Meereen for instance, she thought she was doing the common people a favour by closing down the barbaric fighting pits. She thought she was doing right by freeing the slaves from their masters. However, she was begged by a slave to let them return to their masters if they wanted to because they actually had a decent life despite Dany's assumptions and ideals. Likewise with the fighting pits - what she thought was the right thing to do for the people turned out to be the opposite. Remember the people of Meereen, her people, ended up hissing at her when she tried to demonstrate her 'fairness' by having one of her aides publicly beheaded for breaking her law? Yes, Dany has morals and a perception of fairness, but such things have been proven misguided or misjudged at various points over the course of her story.

I think Dany's good-natured advisors are what have been keeping her from swaying to that Targaryen darkside. Be it Jorah, Tyrion, Grey Worm, Mellissandei or Varys - they have advised diplomacy or have given her important context she lacked many times when she just wanted to release the dragons or make some kind of fatal statement. So now that Dany sees her claim to the Iron Throne bettered by Jon, and there's the possibility that she might lose some of those good-natured advisors in whatever bloodbath the producers are about to unleash on us in these next episode(s), there might be nothing to stop her from going Mad Queen by the end.

As for end predictions or who might survive the Battle of Winterfell or sit on the Iron Throne, I'm not sure. Whatever happens though, I just don't see Dany and Jon living happily ever after and flying off together on their dragons. There will be conflict IMO. Will Dany go full Mad Queen? Maybe not to the point of needing euthanising, but I wouldn't be surprised or call 'bullshít...where did that come from?' if they do go that way with her.

She's been tinkering on the edge through-out the show now in the name of furthering her own cause - From watching contently as her own brother was scalded to death, to locking Xaro Xhoan Daxos and that girl in the vault until they die, to having the Tarley's roasted to death. There has been some dark, potential Mad Queen shít there for us to see all along.

WinnyThePoo

Great Post stu. I do think what Sam said to Jon about stepping down to save his people is the most defining quote.

RollieFingers

I hope Jon and Dany don't end up living happily ever after together, surely not. I'd like to see one of them get killed tonight, and Lyanna Mormont and Brienne. If anyone's surviving the battle hopefully it's Tormund, Jaime and Sansa. Cersei to be sitting on the throne at the end please.

I guess sacrificing Shireen worked. Stannis had awful weather. The Starks have enjoyed quite lovely weather even as the WWs are now standing outside Winterfell.

soap1978

Amazing