General Premier League Thread 2018-19 Part 2

giveitholly

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Embarrassing form from the four of them

giveitholly

giveitholly wrote: »

Embarrassing form from the four of them

40 games lost between them.

wow

giveitholly

RoboKlopp wrote: »

40 games lost between them.

wow

Jaysus

Mr.Nice Guy

It's clear OGS's not up to it. Don't think United fans will turn on him any time soon as there are plenty of scapegoats to go around. United pundits are almost all former teammates of his and they won't turn on him either. It will have to get very bad for there to be a change, unless he walks of his own accord. I can see him being in post until about November/December time by which point next season will be a write-off as well. I've lost all hope anything worthwhile will happen under his watch.

y0ssar1an22

It's equal parts comical and pathetic. What is going on with these clubs? Is there any rhyme or reason, maybe just not that good.
Years of stagnation maybe. Is there any good podcasts out there about why 3-6 are playing so useless recently

jpboard1

Oranage2 wrote: »

This week's fixtures have pretty much ended the league for all the teams besides City and Liverpool. Chelsea fans are the only other fans who can get some joy I suppose.

Interesting set of fixtures next though. Can Brendan do his old club a favor? Or will Rafa break the internet by taking points of his beloved former club?

Can't wait to tune in next week to find out.

Chelsea still need a win against Watford or Leicester. Can’t see that happening on current form.

jpboard1

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's clear OGS's not up to it. Don't think United fans will turn on him any time soon as there are plenty of scapegoats to go around. United pundits are almost all former teammates of his and they won't turn on him either. It will have to get very bad for there to be a change, unless he walks of his own accord. I can see him being in post until about November/December time by which point next season will be a write-off as well. I've lost all hope anything worthwhile will happen under his watch.

That didn’t take long...

5starpool

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's clear OGS's not up to it. Don't think United fans will turn on him any time soon as there are plenty of scapegoats to go around. United pundits are almost all former teammates of his and they won't turn on him either. It will have to get very bad for there to be a change, unless he walks of his own accord. I can see him being in post until about November/December time by which point next season will be a write-off as well. I've lost all hope anything worthwhile will happen under his watch.

I don't think he is either,but given that he has the job, he has to be given the tools to do it. Part of the problem will be offloading some players.

Main example being Sanchez,who will be in no rush to leave because of his wages and I can't see any club coming close to matching them. Pogba is similar for different reasons. Utd might not be looking to offload, but they might be. If they are, I've read that they will be looking for 130m for him, which no one will pay surely. Lukaku the same, where apparently utd want to recoup the 75m they paid for him.

If they are willing to accept best offers (providing they want to or are willing to sell, they could get 140m or so for the 2 of them which along with the natural funds available to utd would be a nice chunk of money to help reshape the team. De Gea may well be sold too unless they want to risk letting him go for nothing, and that would bring in another 50-60m or so, despite his poor recent form.

I can't see them buying 8-10 players, but if they could get in 3-4 new first team players, and have an actual plan for developing the style and club (other than "we want to do it like sir alex"), there is definite improvements that can be made.

Harry Palmr

Man Utd's have rather quickly, much more rapidly than I'd ever expected ended up as hostages to their past - Barca '99 and the "Class of 92" shtick being invoked and gaining a lead weight around the current side. There is so much to be said for cutting all ties with the past. Fergie is also part of this of course, one would wonder what his input is re OGS appointment.

jpboard1

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Man Utd's have rather quickly, much more rapidly than I'd ever expected ended up as hostages to their past - Barca '99 and the "Class of 92" shtick being invoked and gaining a lead weight around the current side. There is so much to be said for cutting all ties with the past. Fergie is also part of this of course, one would wonder what his input is re OGS appointment.

Ole coming for an interview with a Neville for a heart to heart after the Everton loss was bizarre. No chance you’d catch pep or Klopp doing that.

y0ssar1an22

Utds drop the last few years has been staggering. Recruitment has been woeful, is there any success story? Team moyes inherited was a shambles though.

rob316

I've said for years the problem at that club is Woodward. A brilliant commercial guy obviously but should have no input in transfer policy. Under him United have been caught on the hop by better run clubs simply.
United have been trading on their recent past and it's caught up with them.

Run properly and with a recruitment structure, they have more money and resources than any club in the league to compete again.

Mr.H

y0ssar1an22 wrote:

Utds drop the last few years has been staggering. Recruitment has been woeful, is there any success story? Team moyes inherited was a shambles though.

The team moyes inherited were league champions

rob316

Mr.H wrote: »

The team moyes inherited were league champions

That team were finished, Ferguson patched it up with the best striker in the league rvp to get them one more title. For **** sake cleverly was in midfield sure.

Ferguson's brilliance compensated for the short comings of alot of average players.

y0ssar1an22

Mr.H wrote: »

The team moyes inherited were league champions

By 14 points I think? But they were passed it with rvp driving them on. I remember the midfield being useless

Turtyturd

5starpool wrote: »

I don't think he is either,but given that he has the job, he has to be given the tools to do it. Part of the problem will be offloading some players.

Main example being Sanchez,who will be in no rush to leave because of his wages and I can't see any club coming close to matching them. Pogba is similar for different reasons. Utd might not be looking to offload, but they might be. If they are, I've read that they will be looking for 130m for him, which no one will pay surely. Lukaku the same, where apparently utd want to recoup the 75m they paid for him.

If they are willing to accept best offers (providing they want to or are willing to sell, they could get 140m or so for the 2 of them which along with the natural funds available to utd would be a nice chunk of money to help reshape the team. De Gea may well be sold too unless they want to risk letting him go for nothing, and that would bring in another 50-60m or so, despite his poor recent form.

I can't see them buying 8-10 players, but if they could get in 3-4 new first team players, and have an actual plan for developing the style and club (other than "we want to do it like sir alex"), there is definite improvements that can be made.

If he manages either of those Woodward deserves a job for life.

TitianGerm

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Utds drop the last few years has been staggering. Recruitment has been woeful, is there any success story? Team moyes inherited was a shambles though.

A lot of money wasted since Fergie left.

Schweinstiger (Free) - didn't do a whole lot
Darmian (£16m) - ok in his first two years but played very little since
Depay (£30m) - flop
Schniderlin (£31m) - flop
Martial (£50m) - good first year but quite poor the last two years
Bailey (£34m) - flop
Mkhitaryan (£38m) - flop
Pogba (£94m) - good but not good enough for £90m
Sanchez (Free) - flop
Lindelof (£32m) - good
Matic (£40m) - v good first year but faded badly this year
Lukaka (£75) - good first year but off the pace this year
Dalot (£19m) - looks decent
Fred (£53m) - poor so far

That's over £500m since 15/16 season and it's hard to say how many of them have been successful signings.

How do United fans feel looking at that list and how many would they keep/sell this summer?

chicorytip

rob316 wrote:

I've said for years the problem at that club is Woodward. A brilliant commercial guy obviously but should have no input in transfer policy. Under him United have been caught on the hop by better run clubs simply. United have been trading on their recent past and it's caught up with them.

rob316 wrote:

Run properly and with a recruitment structure, they have more money and resources than any club in the league to compete again.

He has no input in transfer policy. The first team manager identifies the players he wants, Woodward signs the cheques. Sanchez, Fred, Lindelof, Lukaku, Bailly and Dalot are Jose's men. This is how it works at all the top clubs. Do you think Klopp would tolerate being told to work with players signed by some "Director of Football"? Of course not. He alone decides what players are bought. With regard to United the lack of young talent coming through the ranks is notable when compared to their main rivals.

y0ssar1an22

chicorytip wrote: »

He has no input in transfer policy. The first team manager identifies the players he wants, Woodward signs the cheques. Sanchez, Fred, Lindelof, Lukaku, Bailly and Dalot are Jose's men. This is how it works at all the top clubs. Do you think Klopp would tolerate being told to work with players signed by some "Director of Football"? Of course not. He alone decides what players are bought. With regard to United the lack of young talent coming through the ranks is notable when compared to their main rivals.

Surely 2anagers with so much pedigree couldn't have ****ed up that badly? I honestly don't know, just that Woodward is the common denominator.
As for the youth players, you'll need to enlighten me on that. Aside from Liverpool, and utds efforts, are any other teams actually successfully promoting youth?

TitianGerm

chicorytip wrote: »

Do you think Klopp would tolerate being told to work with players signed by some "Director of Football"? Of course not. He alone decides what players are bought.

I don't think you know much about Liverpool's transfer structure.

rob316

chicorytip wrote: »

He has no input in transfer policy. The first team manager identifies the players he wants, Woodward signs the cheques. Sanchez, Fred, Lindelof, Lukaku, Bailly and Dalot are Jose's men. This is how it works at all the top clubs. Do you think Klopp would tolerate being told to work with players signed by some "Director of Football"? Of course not. He alone decides what players are bought. With regard to United the lack of young talent coming through the ranks is notable when compared to their main rivals.

Michael Edwards is the sporting director at Liverpool. He works with Klopp.
Klopp wanted Julian Brandt but was convinced to sign Salah instead.
They decide together, that's the desirable structure at clubs now. Just like Txiki and pep at city.

SureYWouldntYa

rob316 wrote: »

that's the desirable structure at clubs now

When you look at Chelsea you can understand why it should be a thing at more clubs

A lot of the players brought in for Conte only suited his system, and now guys like Zappacosta, Alonso and Drinkwater don't fit in Sarri's team at all

Other big money signings didn't suit Conte such as Batshuayi, and when you combine it signings that didn't work out for general footballing reasons like Bakayoko and Morata it adds up to a lot of money wasted

AidoEirE

TitianGerm wrote: »

A lot of money wasted since Fergie left.

Schweinstiger (Free) - didn't do a whole lot
Darmian (£16m) - ok in his first two years but played very little since
Depay (£30m) - flop
Schniderlin (£31m) - flop
Martial (£50m) - good first year but quite poor the last two years
Bailey (£34m) - flop
Mkhitaryan (£38m) - flop
Pogba (£94m) - good but not good enough for £90m
Sanchez (Free) - flop
Lindelof (£32m) - good
Matic (£40m) - v good first year but faded badly this year
Lukaka (£75) - good first year but off the pace this year
Dalot (£19m) - looks decent
Fred (£53m) - poor so far

That's over £500m since 15/16 season and it's hard to say how many of them have been successful signings.

How do United fans feel looking at that list and how many would they keep/sell this summer?

Schweinstiger - was a waste to be far, didnt last long. A pretty much forgotten man at united.

Darmian - 16mil wasnt bad for him and tbf we got good value out of him those first two years.
Not sure why he doesnt get games over the likes of young. Maybe because is set piece taker amd or captain which is daft.

Depay - tbf was the hottest prospect in his league, was unreal there. 30mil looked a snip. The big move, lifestyle and young age didnt help and went to his head.
Arriving to training in his rolls royce amd cowboy hat and crocodile leather jacket says it all.
Playing very well for lyon now, so i think thats the depay we were expecting. Has since come out and said he acted the eejit while here.

Schniderlin - Absolute flop no doubt

Martial - Good season under lvg, downhill when jose appointed. Could of to tactics in whqt jose wanted him to do, but for the money, id say flop.
Coild be another depay and move on and be decent.

Bailey - Greay first year and looked like the CB we needed while lindelof struggled. Has completely turned the opposite and is another injury prone CB.

Mkhitaryan - was brilliant the year before we bought him from dortmund. And to be fsir, got us bavk into the CL with his performances in the Europa league. No good for the PL judging by his days and arsenal now.

Pogba - plenty of discussions about this guy on boards. Everyone has an opinon at this stage. Hasnt performed since joining for the price tag.

Sanchez - needs to go, his contract deal has turned contract situations upside down at the club, has nowhere near performed at the level required espically seeing as he replaced martial, who was having a cracking start to a season till sanchez was brought in and just replaced him for no reason bar wage tag.

Lindelof - had a rough first season, but in my eyes has been a constant professional and proper baller. His unoted career started rough as it could of, but he's bounced back and has turned into a very decent cb for us. First cb on the teamsheet. Deserves credit for that. Great attitude.

Matic - Has been alright, nothing great, maybe more bad. He's grand, McTominey learning off him though which can only be good for the yoing player ehose already stepping up to the mark.

Lukaka - Far far to much muscle for a long time and still could do with slimming down to the lukaku at everton.
For me, he's an instinctive striker, dont let him about what he's goimg to do, get the passer to him make that decision for him and let him go on instinct. Can be a useful player for us yet if whats behind him is sorted.
Highest scorer for us this and last season says a lot.

Dalot - i like this lad, has a good pinger of a ball with his crosses.
From where he came from last season in portugal to straight into the united starting 11 this season and showing himself well, a lot of promise. Hopefullynkeeps thenhead down and works hard.

Fred - undecided on fred, totally up on the air. Next season could be a big one for him



*Didnt mean to ramble, but thought id give an honest review instead of a one liner on each so can give an honest answer.

Not many id keep, but theres promise for some of they get there act together. Theres a few posiomln that could go for sure as.

jimwallace197

rob316 wrote: »

That team were finished, Ferguson patched it up with the best striker in the league rvp to get them one more title. For **** sake cleverly was in midfield sure.

Ferguson's brilliance compensated for the short comings of alot of average players.

I think that team though still had a lot of quality and would have very strong still for another 1 or 2 more years but Moyes went in there with a hatchet to alot of the backroom staff and got the players back up in alot more ways than one.

Those one or two more years might have made the transition a bit easier.

No doubt about it though, they are a shambles now

Agent Coulson

Sanchez is the major issue at Man U right now.

Whatever you want to believe his wage is that is £200k or £500k a week that is destroying and distorting the wage structure at the club and players will rightly feel they should have a comparable wage considering they can see he isn't doing anything for that wage.

These are players who live in the social media and they will all the talk that he is on £500k a week so that is going to be the wage he gets in their minds true or not it is their bargaining position going into any contract negotiation now.


Any top name player Man U will be looking to sign will have seen all the media reports about what he is on and will have their agents negotiating for the same type of wage.

Man U are then between a rock and hard place pay the money or don't get the player.


If a club will take Sanchez Man U will probably still have to pay a fair bit of his wage or buy him out of his contract to get rid of him.

fyfe79

Wasn't aware of the Arsenal result - just seen it on MOTD there. Leicester looking good... shame their game against City is at the Etihad, otherwise I'd give them a real chance of doing Liverpool a favour.

If City go on to win the title, surely the posters who said Liverpool had blown it back in January should be praised for their presience...because with hindsight that was precisely the time Liverpool blew it. .

klose

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If City go on to win the title, surely the posters who said Liverpool had blown it back in January should be praised for their presience...because with hindsight that was precisely the time Liverpool blew it. .

Try harder

Harry Palmr

Big Virgil POTY and Raz (as I believe he is known now) as possibly the oldest winner of YPOTY.

Trigger

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Big Virgil POTY and Raz (as I believe he is known now) as possibly the oldest winner of YPOTY.

The young player of the year is a joke, should be at least under 21.

windy shepard henderson

Deleted User wrote: »

If City go on to win the title, surely the posters who said Liverpool had blown it back in January should be praised for their presience...because with hindsight that was precisely the time Liverpool blew it. .

i genuinely don't think any side could possibly be accused of blowing anything , especially a side that have lost 1 game all season

91 points liverpool are on now with two games to go , city and liverpool have combined 5 loss's all season which is incredible with two games to go

as a liverpool supporter i firmly believe this city squad are the best side of the premiership era and its very possible that 97 points wont be enough to overtake them

windy shepard henderson

klose wrote: »

Try harder

you would be amazed how many people would actually believe that rubbish ,

LuckyLloyd

Liverpool are in the process of forcing City to reel off 14 straight wins to win the title. Bottlers!

y0ssar1an22

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Big Virgil POTY and Raz (as I believe he is known now) as possibly the oldest winner of YPOTY.

Player of the year went to **** the year giggs won it. He played about 10 premier league games. Vvd deserves it.

Ypoty has been a shambles for years

y0ssar1an22

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Liverpool are in the process of forcing City to reel off 14 straight wins to win the title. Bottlers!

Im sure there is a team that didn't win the champions league cos they only lost 1 game. No one remembers who. Fact is no one cares about the nearlies. Imagine night after night you nearly pulled but never did. Eventually you have to ask yourself are you just ugly

Agent Coulson

They (The English Media) always talk Howe up as the manager who should get a chance at a top 6 club and he is always linked with Arsenal.

Watching Burnley today and over the last two season I think Dyche deserves a shot and right now Man U could do with a him there to clear out the rot and start to give them a solid base to build from.

y0ssar1an22

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They (The English Media) always talk Howe up as the manager who should get a chance at a top 6 club and he is always linked with Arsenal.

Watching Burnley today and over the last two season I think Dyche deserves a shot and right now Man U could do with a him there to clear out the rot and start to give them a solid base to build from.

Don't think he or dyche could do the job. And don't think they're 'galmorous' enough for the job.
Liverpool tried that a few years back going for the journey men and it didn't work. Why would it work with a bigger club?

Cantona's Collars

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Don't think he or dyche could do the job. And don't think they're 'galmorous' enough for the job.
Liverpool tried that a few years back going for the journey men and it didn't work. Why would it work with a bigger club?

Why bother answering him? He knows exactly what he's at with leading questions like that.....;)

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Sanchez is the major issue at Man U right now.

Whatever you want to believe his wage is that is £200k or £500k a week that is destroying and distorting the wage structure at the club and players will rightly feel they should have a comparable wage considering they can see he isn't doing anything for that wage.

These are players who live in the social media and they will all the talk that he is on £500k a week so that is going to be the wage he gets in their minds true or not it is their bargaining position going into any contract negotiation now.


Any top name player Man U will be looking to sign will have seen all the media reports about what he is on and will have their agents negotiating for the same type of wage.

Man U are then between a rock and hard place pay the money or don't get the player.


If a club will take Sanchez Man U will probably still have to pay a fair bit of his wage or buy him out of his contract to get rid of him.

Well its a good job players aren't thier own agents anymore and that people who workin in the business will likely know what the true rates are.

Thats not to say that United haven't over paid in the last couple of years but your reasoning is beyond stupid tbf

RollieFingers

Dyche does have experience in the Europa League so isn't actually a bad shout for United.

y0ssar1an22

RollieFingers wrote: »

Dyche does have experience in the Europa League so isn't actually a bad shout for United.

More suited to a team that has never won a premier league

Come on lads the Dyche comment is not genuine, the poster is being obvious but if you can't call him out on that.

You can say his opinions are idiotic. Which is the opinion everywhere he posts on boards tbf

Agent Coulson

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Don't think he or dyche could do the job. And don't think they're 'galmorous' enough for the job.
Liverpool tried that a few years back going for the journey men and it didn't work. Why would it work with a bigger club?

I know Man U tried it with Moyes before and that didn't work out and it was never going to work for anyone taking the job straight after Alex retired.

However I do think Dyche is a really good manager and if he got the support at top 4/5/6/7 club he could be a success.

He knows how build a team spirit he is a very decent tactician I'd put him closer to Rodgers than Moyes.

8-10

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Big Virgil POTY and Raz (as I believe he is known now) as possibly the oldest winner of YPOTY.

Great achievement for the young lad to win YPOTY in only his 8th season in the first team

ebbsy

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

More suited to a team that has never won a premier league

Manchester United will have to win the Europa League next year to get in the Champions League the following year.

LuckyLloyd

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

Im sure there is a team that didn't win the champions league cos they only lost 1 game. No one remembers who. Fact is no one cares about the nearlies. Imagine night after night you nearly pulled but never did. Eventually you have to ask yourself are you just ugly

91 points isn’t ugly. 91 points (and a +64 goal difference) is sleek and beautiful.

the whole year inn

ebbsy wrote: »

Manchester United will have to win the Europa League next year to get in the Champions League the following year.

What about getting top 4 or you writhing them off allready and not even kicked a ball?

GavRedKing

The English sides that make the EL from now on have to take it seriously.

Look at Arsenal and Chelsea this year, its our best chance to get into the CL next year.

Theres 2 exceptional sides in England at the moment and 4 also rans, if the English sides take the EL seriously, they'll win the majority of the titles for the next few years between them.

I said it months ago I'd happily finish outside top 4 and win the EL, if we can finish top 4 and have the EL final too look forward to as well, it will be a bonus.

gimli2112

The problem with the EL is playing on a Thursday particularly in the far flung reaches of Russia. It's a horrible competition until you get to the later stages. It has been made very relevant however with the CL spot.

GavRedKing

Nobody wants to be in but its a stepping stone to the CL, its also arguably better to win the EL than it is to finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

If you win it you go straight into Pot 1 in the CL draw.

I woudlnt be surprised to see 5 English sides in the CL for the next few years on the back of EL success.