Do you know any transgender people?

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

Did that person transition fully both times?

No, not the second. Not sure what the plan is now

Actually, without TMI I think female 'parts' are still there.

Lux23

I know a handful through work now, and although they do have it harder than your usual 20-something they seem to be relatively well adjusted. One woman I knew many years ago had very severe mental health difficulties which made her quite scary at times. But it was no surprise given how she was treated over the years.

noubliezjamais

bubblypop wrote: »

A relative of mine transitioned from female to male.
Then few years later, decided to change back again.

Isn't that pretty much impossible assuming she was taking hormones. Testosterone causes irreversible masculinization of bone structure (for females to males).

It's the reason why transgender women often "pass" less than transgender men unless they transitioned before puberty.

King of Kings

seamus wrote: »

I don't disagree that she was unpleasant. But every trans person is not obliged to be an ambassador or representative for their "cause", any more than every straight man is a representative for the other ~3 billion of us.

The abuse she received for being trans was unwarranted and allowed to go on for far too long. By all means give her hell for being a fvcking asshole, but the transphobic abuse is something else entirely.

Imagine a thread about Bill Cosby that was nothing but wall-to-wall racism. He's an asshole. But it doesn't make racism OK.

Actually you make a fair point.
1 person in circumstance is never a spokesperson for everybody in the samesituation.

My point is driven by their anger(sometimes vicious) that boards posters didnt bow to their campaign/lifestyle/orientation but they themselves didnt see an opportunity to show peope about trans...but sought to alienate themselves with their behaviour and then lament how people were bigots.

noubliezjamais

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Isn't that pretty much impossible assuming she was taking hormones. Testosterone causes irreversible masculinization of bone structure (for females to males).

It's the reason why transgender women often "pass" less than transgender men unless they transitioned before puberty.

Yes, it's all a bit confusing for everyone. I don't even know how to talk about these things, to be sure I don't cause offence.

noubliezjamais

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Several.
Some are sound.
Some aren't.

Knew most of them before they transitioned. The sound one's were sound then, the others weren't.
I find being sound is a human thing not a gender thing.

I could do without the woman who chats endlessly to me about make-up. I understand that this is very exciting for her and she is learning a whole new way to be in the world. But I'm a dyky kinda dyke - I know f all about make-up and care even less. Please stop talking to me about make-up

What do you mean sound?

lawred2

fryup wrote: »

Well do you? i don't know any (as far as i know)

If so how are they received in your area..are they accepted or looked upon as an oddity?

particularly in rural areas...

none

lawred2

noubliezjamais wrote: »

What do you mean sound?

take it you're not Irish?

Wibbs

Berserker wrote: »

Oh, guys run a mile when they find out she's trans. How would the single guys on here react if they met a girl and they found out she was trans, as a matter of interest?

For me it would be about the biggest eh nope of them all.

That said I do recall reading somewhere that Trans porn was up in the ratings of searches, so.. Though how that translates to everyday reality is another thing.

sbsquarepants

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Please stop talking to me about make-up

What's your favourite lipstick by the way?:D

I think you've hit the nail on the head. An asshole is an asshole is an asshole.

Unfortunately we're still quite a way off having full personality transplants available. You can change your gender, but you basically end up with an asshole of woman where you used to have an asshole of a man, or vice versa.

If you don't start off as likeable you are very unlikely to end up that way.

noubliezjamais

lawred2 wrote: »

take it you're not Irish?

No but I've lived here 15 years. Just confused by what do you mean that some were cool and some weren't. Do you mean the non sound ones were just ****ty people about their trans/non trans issues?

Dannyriver

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There was quite a few but honestly I can understand why there isnt anymore when they get such hate and hostility.

The self loathing at being in the wrong skin has been shown to far outweigh the abuse from the imbeciles that can t mind their own business and insist they have the answers to something they've no possible way of understanding.

One eyed Jack

Berserker wrote: »

One of my OH's best friends is. Is female now, was male at birth. Dead sound. Says that she still believes that being transgender is an issue when it comes to finding work in her chosen field. Is well received and has had no major issues apart from that. Oh, guys run a mile when they find out she's trans. How would the single guys on here react if they met a girl and they found out she was trans, as a matter of interest?

It’s hardly surprising though that anyone will make the distinction for themselves between someone who is transgender and someone who isn’t? There aren’t that many people are interested in dating or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, and even less people who are interested in or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, but attempting to pass themselves off as the opposite sex.

Dannyriver

Dale Doback wrote: »

Not that I'm aware of.

Serious question...

...is a "transgender male" a female who transitioned to male or is it the other way around?

Google is your friend

Berserker

noubliezjamais wrote: »

It's the reason why transgender women often "pass" less than transgender men unless they transitioned before puberty.

Part of the problem with the question I posed above. She is ridiculously convincing, if you want to look at it that way and a very attractive lady, so guys don't think that she is trans. On revealing it to them, they are out the door, never to be seen again.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s hardly surprising though that anyone will make the distinction for themselves between someone who is transgender and someone who isn’t? There aren’t that many people are interested in dating or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, and even less people who are interested in or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, but attempting to pass themselves off as the opposite sex.

She is not trying to pass herself off as the opposite sex though. She's transitioned; post-op. If she sat with you today, you wouldn't have a clue she's trans.

lawred2

noubliezjamais wrote: »

No but I've lived here 15 years. Just confused by what do you mean that some were cool and some weren't. Do you mean the non sound ones were just ****ty people about their trans/non trans issues?

oh that wasn't me that posted that

sbsquarepants

Berserker wrote: »

Oh, guys run a mile when they find out she's trans. How would the single guys on here react if they met a girl and they found out she was trans, as a matter of interest?

I'm not single, but if I was I don't think I'd have a problem with it.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and all that.

I don't think what someone used to be is as important as what they now are now. My own missus for example used to be a toddler...she's not now though, so that's what's important.

Dannyriver

seamus wrote: »

I don't disagree that she was unpleasant. But every trans person is not obliged to be an ambassador or representative for their "cause", any more than every straight man is a representative for the other ~3 billion of us.

The abuse she received for being trans was unwarranted and allowed to go on for far too long. By all means give her hell for being a fvcking asshole, but the transphobic abuse is something else entirely.

Imagine a thread about Bill Cosby that was nothing but wall-to-wall racism. He's an asshole. But it doesn't make racism OK.

Exactly

Captain Flaps

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Hi


I also had to deal with my friends, who used to make my life even more difficult by making fun of my staff...

I have strong opinions on the transgender surge, but I rarely voice them as I find, in general, the trans community to be extremist, illogical, and pretty ruthless in their on line attacks.

Poor you. It must have been really hard to take the slagging from your obviously incredibly sound mates, you sound terribly oppressed. I'm glad you haven't allowed the experience to give you a chip on your shoulder.

pc7

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes, it's all a bit confusing for everyone. I don't even know how to talk about these things, to be sure I don't cause offence.

Have to agree with you on this, I have no problem with people being whatever makes them happy once it doesn't hurt other people (each to their own). But I do find some of the terminology confusing, I had to google what CIS meant recently, the whole gender fluid, binary/non binary terms too. Trans man/Trans woman (was a bit confused as to which way it was etc.). It's new to a lot of people (I'm in my 40's) but suppose its just the new norm.



I am opposed to young children being given seriously strong medication in terms of transitioning, it seems so damaging and dangerous. I was a real tom boy when I was young, but that changed after puberty. So I'm very wary of taking medications that could prevent that change. Anyhoo may be wandering off topic.



I don't know any transgender people (yet) but have a really good friend who likes to wear womens clothes (but doesn't want to be a woman).

Dannyriver

pc7 wrote: »

Have to agree with you on this, I have no problem with people being whatever makes them happy once it doesn't hurt other people (each to their own). But I do find some of the terminology confusing, I had to google what CIS meant recently, the whole gender fluid, binary/non binary terms too. Trans man/Trans woman (was a bit confused as to which way it was etc.). It's new to a lot of people (I'm in my 40's) but suppose its just the new norm.



I am opposed to young children being given seriously strong medication in terms of transitioning, it seems so damaging and dangerous. I was a real tom boy when I was young, but that changed after puberty. So I'm very wary of taking medications that could prevent that change. Anyhoo may be wandering off topic.



I don't know any transgender people (yet) but have a really good friend who likes to wear womens clothes (but doesn't want to be a woman).

That wasn't so difficult though I'm sure.

sbsquarepants

Dannyriver wrote: »

That wasn't so difficult though I'm sure.

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder there Danny!

pc7

Dannyriver wrote: »

That wasn't so difficult though I'm sure.

Googling it wasn't difficult - no, without googling and hearing all the terms was confusing when its not in your circle or space. Its new to a lot of people.

Wibbs

Berserker wrote: »

She is not trying to pass herself off as the opposite sex though. She's transitioned; post-op. If she sat with you today, you wouldn't have a clue she's trans.

That's pretty rare to be fair. And that's just on day to day meeting. If things go beyond that into the romantic things would become pretty evident.

Wibbs

Dannyriver wrote: »

That wasn't so difficult though I'm sure.

Yeah condescension is a great way to convince somebody. And that's coming from me, an arrogant prick at the best of times.

Dannyriver

pc7 wrote: »

Googling it wasn't difficult - no, without googling and hearing all the terms was confusing when its not in your circle or space. Its new to a lot of people.

I understand there has been huge social change in the last 30 years or so due in large part to world wide connectivity, at least you took the time to find things out. Many over 40's crib about being out of the loop and not understanding whilst holding an iphone in their hand. If they cared enough they d find out.

Dannyriver

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah condescension is a great way to convince somebody. And that's coming from me, an arrogant prick at the best of times.

That you are

Dannyriver

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder there Danny!

Not at all , I think I made my point very effectively and no offence was intended.

jimgoose

Dannyriver wrote: »

Not at all , I think I made my point very effectively and no offence was intended.

You didn't really have a point, pc7 did. I too find it a little strange to find myself labeled by a tiny minority of the population, but I take it largely in good spirits.

Oh and, I haven't to my knowledge met a transgender person. I'd like to, I'd say they'd have an interesting tale to tell. Aside from the screechy, preachy, militant variety, mind.

TCM

Wibbs wrote:

Yeah condescension is a great way to convince somebody. And that's coming from me, an arrogant prick at the best of times.

Answer me this, if a man transitions to a female, when playing golf what tee box does she play off.

.......

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s hardly surprising though that anyone will make the distinction for themselves between someone who is transgender and someone who isn’t? There aren’t that many people are interested in dating or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, and even less people who are interested in or having a relationship with someone who they view as being of the same sex as themselves, but attempting to pass themselves off as the opposite sex.

Christ.

sbsquarepants

....... wrote: »

Christ.

Yea kinda, he did have long hair and wear a dress;)

Wibbs

Dannyriver wrote: »

I understand there has been huge social change in the last 30 years or so due in large part to world wide connectivity, at least you took the time to find things out. Many over 40's crib about being out of the loop and not understanding whilst holding an iphone in their hand. If they cared enough they d find out.

I'm "in the loop", cared enough to find out and found a lot of the "social change" is confused, hectoring and often demonstrably beyond daft.

TCM wrote: »

Answer me this, if a man transitions to a female, when playing golf what tee box does she play off.

Fcuk knows T, as I'm not a golfist, thank god.

suicide_circus

because someone believes something of themselves, does that mean others should also believe it?

Ush1

Berserker wrote: »

She is not trying to pass herself off as the opposite sex though. She's transitioned; post-op. If she sat with you today, you wouldn't have a clue she's trans.

Is that not gender?
My understanding is that you can't change biological sex.

.......

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Yea kinda, he did have long hair and wear a dress;)

So did William Wallace - and he wore make up too :P

suicide_circus

Ush1 wrote: »

Is that not gender?
My understanding is that you can't change biological sex.

thats why the term transsexual was replaced with transgender

.......

Ush1 wrote: »

Is that not gender?
My understanding is that you can't change biological sex.

You cannot change DNA.

Although most* people do not ask for DNA testing before engaging in a relationship so it seems odd that it is a measure used to beat fully transitioned people with.

*boards.ie posters generally not reflective of most normal people

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

because someone believes something of themselves, does that mean others should also believe it?

By default my first position comes down to good manners. Far more reliable than ideology or passion. Both of which can shift remarkably easily over time. So I'll treat people I meet with respect out of that and address them and their beliefs accordingly. If someone or a group demands respect just cos, I'll generally default to that first position, but will again generally think far less of them. Respect is earned not a given. If anybody wants to police my thoughts on a matter my default position tends to be switched to Off. If I give a damn what they think of course.

Ush1

....... wrote: »

You cannot change DNA.

Although most* people do not ask for DNA testing before engaging in a relationship so it seems odd that it is a measure used to beat fully transitioned people with.

*boards.ie posters generally not reflective of most normal people

Who's beating anybody with anything?

Dannyriver

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm "in the loop", cared enough to find out and found a lot of the "social change" is confused, hectoring and often demonstrably beyond daft.

Fcuk knows T, as I'm not a golfist, thank god.

I agree but I also believe the confusion stems from people offering pretty conclusive opinions without taking the trouble to be informed at a quantitative level. Social change and arguably all change causes some form of existential anxiety due to it challenging peoples need for patterns and certainty in their life. Which goes back to my original point that that on the one hand the internet has been the catalyst for extensive social change but on the other it has never been easier to be informed around these sociological changes. For example i work a lot with parents who are terrified of social media and say they can't keep up with all these apps platforms etc. And when I ask have you googled what instagram or whatever is about I tend to get the answer that they hadn't thought of that. Back to my original point if you don't understand and care enough then google it and get informed.

Wibbs

....... wrote: »

So did William Wallace - and he wore make up too :P

He didn't. The kilt hadn't been invented yet and if he had turned up in blue woad his peers would have laughed him out of it.

....... wrote: »

You cannot change DNA.

Although most* people do not ask for DNA testing before engaging in a relationship so it seems odd that it is a measure used to beat fully transitioned people with.

Like I said if and when things progressed to more romantic ends, unless someone was pretty ignorant of basic physiology of the opposite sex, it would be pretty obvious. In the cases of both FtM and MtF. Though the vast majority of Trans folks would have been upfront long before that.

sbsquarepants

Dannyriver wrote: »

. And when I ask have you googled what instagram or whatever is about I tend to get the answer that they hadn't thought of that. Back to my original point if you don't understand and care enough then google it and get informed.

Or, now bear with me this is going to sound crazy.....you might just have other things to be doing!

Nobody can keep up to date on everything ffs.

There's no need to be bitchy about someone asking a question!

.......

Ush1 wrote: »

Who's beating anybody with anything?

Oh I do apologise, if you are not aware of transphobia and the various slurs used to insult trans people.

Things like calling a trans woman a man in a dress etc....

One eyed Jack

Berserker wrote: »

Part of the problem with the question I posed above. She is ridiculously convincing, if you want to look at it that way and a very attractive lady, so guys don't think that she is trans. On revealing it to them, they are out the door, never to be seen again.

She is not trying to pass herself off as the opposite sex though. She's transitioned; post-op. If she sat with you today, you wouldn't have a clue she's trans.

By your own admission, she is as you put it, ridiculously convincing. Women generally don’t feel they have to convince anyone they are women, and I’ve never met a woman who has had to try and convince me they are a woman.

I may well be convinced up to a certain point that someone is someone they’re not, it’s often happened, some people are deceptive like that, but I would admire your friend for her honesty at least. I still wouldn’t be interested in dating her or having any kind of a relationship with her other than friendship, but that probably wouldn’t last long either if they continued to try and convince me they’re someone they aren’t.

Everyone has their dealbreakers, for me it’s generally anyone with more baggage than JFK airport, and the whole idea that I view them of the same sex as myself just doesn’t come up that often so it’s not something I tend to get over-wrought about.

.......

One eyed Jack wrote: »

....or having any kind of a relationship with her other than friendship, but that probably wouldn’t last long either if they continued to try and convince me they’re someone they aren’t..

So you would refuse to even be friends with a trans person?

Thats, really awful actually.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

By default my first position comes down to good manners. Far more reliable than ideology or passion. Both of which can shift remarkably easily over time. So I'll treat people I meet with respect out of that and address them and their beliefs accordingly. If someone or a group demands respect just cos, I'll generally default to that first position, but will again generally think far less of them. Respect is earned not a given. If anybody wants to police my thoughts on a matter my default position tends to be switched to Off. If I give a damn what they think of course.

i wasn't getting at pronouns and general good manners which i would and do use towards transgender people. i'm talking about actual belief in the confines of my own skull. because someone believes something of themselves, should others also believe it?

seamus

pc7 wrote: »

Have to agree with you on this, I have no problem with people being whatever makes them happy once it doesn't hurt other people (each to their own). But I do find some of the terminology confusing, I had to google what CIS meant recently, the whole gender fluid, binary/non binary terms too. Trans man/Trans woman (was a bit confused as to which way it was etc.). It's new to a lot of people (I'm in my 40's) but suppose its just the new norm.

The whole, "I don't want to offend anyone" thing is overblown.

Like preachy vegans & atheists, and "do you even lift bro" gym bunnies, the meme of the "did you just assume my gender" trans person is almost entirely a fabrication.
It's a caricature of an incredibly rare individual who typically only expresses themselves in niche corners of the internet, and most people will never, ever encounter it in real life.

Even the basic discussions about gender, are not things I have ever heard outside of the Internet.

If someone came up to you on holiday and called you English, you'd politely say, "No actually, I'm Irish". And everyone would move on.

Likewise, if someone was non-binary or otherwise was presenting themselves androgenously and you accidentally called them the wrong pronoun, they wouldn't lose their sh1t at you for making an honest and easy mistake. They'd politely correct you, or maybe say nothing at all.

I have never actually heard, "How dare you assume my gender" used seriously. Only ever Internet denizens taking the piss out of stereotypes.

One eyed Jack

....... wrote: »

So you would refuse to even be friends with a trans person?

Thats, really awful actually.

I never said I would refuse to be friends with a trans person? It’s not like I go out of my way to make friends with trans people either as we generally don’t have a whole pile in common, another reason why I wouldn’t consider dating or having a relationship with someone who is transgender, but awful? Hardly, I just don’t imagine we’d have a whole lot in common is all.

jimgoose

One eyed Jack wrote: »

By your own admission, she is as you put it, ridiculously convincing. Women generally don’t feel they have to convince anyone they are women, and I’ve never met a woman who has had to try and convince me they are a woman...

I read that post as saying that the person in question wasn't consciously trying to convince, and certainly not deceive, anyone, but merely was a convincing, and presumably rather attractive, post-op woman.