How long before Irish reunification?

IAMAMORON

droidman123 wrote: »

It doesnt matter if he was a road sweeper at the time the gfa was signed,fact of the matter is that he is now the british foreign secretary and the the gfa is of huge significance at this particular time

Your getting picky. He doesn't need to know it off by heart or anything. As I said he would have a team of civil servants to do that for him, just like Simon Coveney has.

Raab is just a bullshítter like all the rest of them, questioning his competence is pointless, he is the one doing the job, he doesn't care what anyone thinks.

Throwing mud at British MP's won't get us any closer to a UI or a deal on Brexit. But assuming they are clueless won't even get you to the table for talks.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

droidman123 wrote: »

It doesnt matter if he was a road sweeper at the time the gfa was signed,fact of the matter is that he is now the british foreign secretary and the the gfa is of huge significance at this particular time

Your getting picky. He doesn't need to know it off by heart or anything. As I said he would have a team of civil servants to do that for him, just like Simon Coveney has.

Raab is just a bullshítter like all the rest of them, questioning his competence is pointless, he is the one doing the job, he doesn't care what anyone thinks.

Throwing mud at British MP's won't get us any closer to a UI or a deal on Brexit. But assuming they are clueless won't even get you to the table for talks.

Fairly hefty shift on those goalposts from, 'hasn't read' to, 'doesn't need to know it off by heart'...

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Your getting picky. He doesn't need to know it off by heart or anything. As I said he would have a team of civil servants to do that for him, just like Simon Coveney has.

Raab is just a bullshítter like all the rest of them, questioning his competence is pointless, he is the one doing the job, he doesn't care what anyone thinks.

Throwing mud at British MP's won't get us any closer to a UI or a deal on Brexit. But assuming they are clueless won't even get you to the table for talks.

Calling somebody out as not fit to do the job is 'throwing mud' now?

I'd have thought it was a statement of fact myself. Facts you didn't seem to know.

IAMAMORON

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Fairly hefty shift on those goalposts from, 'hasn't read' to, 'doesn't need to know it off by heart'...

Meaning what exactly? Please elaborate.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Deleted User wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

I could have sworn you said your grandfather was an Ulster unionist which must surely mean you possibility have a fair bit of Ulster Scot/British in your DNA?

Ah, so if he has "British" DNA, he can't be Irish? I thought that ethnically based conceptions of nationhood went out of vogue, at the latest, when the Balkans erupted? Excluding people from Irishness because of their "blood" is a very alien concept to the same Irish nationalist tradition which has for many centuries and at various times placed Tomás an tSíoda, Sarsfield, Grattan, Tone, Parnell, Plunkett, Pearse, de Valera (by far the most popular Irish politician of the 20th century), Lemass and so many others in high esteem. Personally, I'd have more time for accommodating the Dubhghlas de Híde, Coslett Ó Cuinn, Eleanor Knott, Stephen Rea and James Nesbitt types of the Irish Protestant tradition than I'd have for accommodating the anglocentric Roman Catholic nationalism of the John Bruton/Avril Doyle/Brian Hayes/Alban Maginness types.

Perhaps you shouldn't be projecting Little Englander race-based conceptions of nationality upon the Irish? Thanks.

As the OP I assumed you wanted to promote discussion about the thread subject.I agree my views are different to yours but nothing controversial imo.

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Calling somebody out as not fit to do the job is 'throwing mud' now?

I'd have thought it was a statement of fact myself. Facts you didn't seem to know.

If you saw yourself in the mirror... you would have a row with it.

As soon as you run out of unionists to annihilate you start on your own, your a gas man Francie.

As I said before, typing jibes at British politicians will get no one nowhere. Assuming they are clueless loses your argument as far as I am concerned.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

If you saw yourself in the mirror... you would have a row with it.

As soon as you run out of unionists to annihilate you start on your own, your a gas man Francie.

Oh dear.

As I said before, typing jibes at British politicians will get no one nowhere. Assuming they are clueless loses your argument as far as I am concerned.

He wasn't fit to do the job - he is no longer doing the job he revealed he wasn't briefed for.

Nobody in Britain was sufficiently versed in the GFA before the issuance of Art 5o. Hence the mess of their own making that they are in. Fact, all day long.

droidman123

IAMAMORON wrote: »

If you saw yourself in the mirror... you would have a row with it.

As soon as you run out of unionists to annihilate you start on your own, your a gas man Francie.

As I said before, typing jibes at British politicians will get no one nowhere. Assuming they are clueless loses your argument as far as I am concerned.

I didnt post any jibes,i just think its incredible as the british foreign secretary that he had,nt read the gfa,considering how significent it is now more than ever

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Calling somebody out as not fit to do the job is 'throwing mud' now?

I'd have thought it was a statement of fact myself. Facts you didn't seem to know.

Calling someone out as not fit to do the job is an opinion, not a fact.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Calling someone out as not fit to do the job is an opinion, not a fact.

It is an opinion('I would have thought' being a signifier that it was my opinion) based on facts. Facts the poster didn't know.

maccored

30-40 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Maybe you remember what Dev did so. He executed by firing squad and hanging captured IRA prisoners in Irish jails. Even Mrs Thatcher did not do that. Strong Republicans like Tim Pat Coogan said Dev was responsible for an era of cultural and economic stagnation and backwardness in Irish history. No not forget the massive emigration to England and America and elsewhere then, nearly nobody was left in the country. He made it a cold country for minorities, did not let in any Jewish refugees in any numbers, said if he had one job to give and 2 applicants, a protestant and a catholic, he would always give the job to the catholic. And some other politicians on the Island of Ireland got a higher % poll than he did.

is this deja vu? I could have swore I read all this before

Fionn1952

15-20 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Fairly hefty shift on those goalposts from, 'hasn't read' to, 'doesn't need to know it off by heart'...

Meaning what exactly? Please elaborate.

Like Ronseal, exactly what it says on the tin - the initial premise was that he hadn't read the GFA at all, which you have softened down to, 'doesn't know it off by heart's.

IAMAMORON

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Like Ronseal, exactly what it says on the tin - the initial premise was that he hadn't read the GFA at all, which you have softened down to, 'doesn't know it off by heart's.

Waffle, your happy arguing over some bullshíting British MP?

What difference does it make if he has read it or not? Do you honestly believe he is not aware of what it entails?

Fionn1952

15-20 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Like Ronseal, exactly what it says on the tin - the initial premise was that he hadn't read the GFA at all, which you have softened down to, 'doesn't know it off by heart's.

Waffle, your happy arguing over some bullshíting British MP?

What difference does it make if he has read it or not? Do you honestly believe he is not aware of what it entails?

I'm perfectly happy to correct your arguing over some bullsh*tting British MP - I made no comment on Raab, just on your goalpost shifting.

I will make comment on it based on your last question though - what difference does it make whether he has read it or not? A pretty f*cking hefty one. Details matter.

20-30 years

We were once the island of saints and scholars. Alas, my head is melted here and somebody needs to give this lesson:

"What he did", not "what he done". He/She/They/We did, not "done".
He/She/They/We have done.

The precise same pattern applies to "saw" and "seen": "What he saw", but "What he has seen"; "I saw", but "I have (I've) seen".

You're = You are. Always. "Your" is used to indicate possession - e.g. your house. It's a very simple distinction.

If people - especially our ragingly proud Irish-hating Anglophiles like Mary above - haven't the self-discipline to learn such remedial words in the Queen's English, then you can be absolutely sure they've put no research/effort into getting facts about what they're (they are) writing about. Lazy. No pride at all. Their posts don't deserve respect. Content wise, every thing written here by that poster really is head-meltingly sub-par, educationally bereft rubbish of the most egregious sort.

/end rant.

James Brown

10-15 years

Aegir wrote: »

Not having read the GFA does not preclude someone from being an "Expert" on it. Just read boards for plenty of examples.

Who has done such a thing, (not read it but claimed to be an expert)?

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Who has done such a thing, (not read it but claimed to be an expert)?

It's just Aegir doing what Aegir does, popping into threads to have a pop at somebody or other.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Deleted User wrote: »

We were once the island of saints and scholars. Alas, my head is melted here and somebody needs to give this lesson:

"What he did", not "what he done". He/She/They/We did, not "done".
He/She/They/We have done.

The precise same pattern applies to "saw" and "seen": "What he saw", but "What he has seen"; "I saw", but "I have (I've) seen".

You're = You are. Always. "Your" is used to indicate possession - e.g. your house. It's a very simple distinction.

If people - especially our ragingly proud Irish-hating Anglophiles like Mary above - haven't the self-discipline to learn such remedial words in the Queen's English, then you can be absolutely sure they've put no research/effort into getting facts about what they're (they are) writing about. Lazy. No pride at all. Their posts don't deserve respect. Content wise, every thing written here by that poster really is head-meltingly sub-par, educationally bereft rubbish of the most egregious sort.

/end rant.

Very nice fuaranach,now hold still while I strangle that condescending demon out of your throat:rolleyes:

cj maxx

walshb wrote: »

Born up North allows the person to decide what nationality they are....

An orange loyalist Unionist born in Belfast, for example, will likely claim to be a British national/subject.

Even if said person was born down South they would still likely identify as British, but they would be Irish via their nationality/place of birth.

That wasn't the point

janfebmar

geldonhork wrote: »

Here is my view of the process for reunification:

First you'd have to organise the clean up efforts for the unionist riot (they're fond of doing it as any minor change to the status quo,). The police would probably need to be sent to protect leading republicans from unionist paramilitary attacks.

There wouldn't be much trouble merging the two civil services since the Irish system is based off the British one.

MLAs would probably become de facto TDs until fresh elections could be held. Queens University Belfast would need to appoint senators, as would the major NI parties, the DUP and UUP would lose their reason for existence.

They would need to put in some new seats in the Dáil.

There would likely be a small exodus of unionists leaving the north for the UK (similar to what happened during partition).

There would likely be a reorganisation of the Irish health care system to accomodate a free at the point of use HSE.

A lot of high level civil servants may be out of a job, since there's people in the south who are already doing their job.

The Defence Forces would need to take over British installations and boost membership.

The PSNI would be absorbed into the Gardaí who would be routinely armed.

Irish people would no longer be entitled to vote in British elections, nor claim citizenship outside of nomal means and vice versa.

The street signs would need to be changed.

Unionist marches and bonfires would likely have more stringent regulations.

The education system would need to conform to the Irish system.

The British government probably have a plan or two in a cabinet in Westminster, sitting beside a magnum of champagne.

It could not be easier.

It could'nt be easier to make a balls of the above / have the whole lot go up in flames. The Irish security services shot to kill some Republicans, image the outcry there will be when they shoot to kill some loyalists. And as regards the ability to organise things, what other country in the world can get something so wrong as simply building a childrens hospital. Do not forget our new childrens hospital will cost the taxpayer here double per bed the next most expensive childrens hospital in the world.

SafeSurfer

30-40 years

One thing I do know. In a United Ireland, even if it were to be a land of milk and honey, akin to the Big Rock Candy Mountain, nobody would be happy. Southerners are some of the Joanie’s people on the planet but northerners take it to a whole new level.

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
There's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
And the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
All the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs
The farmers' trees are full of fruit
And the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go
Where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall
The winds don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
You never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol
Come trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats
And the railway bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew
And of whiskey too
You can paddle all around it
In a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
The jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again
As soon as you are in
There ain't no short-handled shovels
No axes, saws nor picks
I'm goin' to stay
Where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk
That invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
I'll see you all this coming fall
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

Kermit.de.frog

If it's just for lebensraum i'd be all for a United Ireland. I get queasy about paying their welfare bill though. The north has a very high level of economic inactivity which seriously masks the employment figures. We'd have to pay for that.

janfebmar

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If it's just for lebensraum i'd be all for a United Ireland. I get queasy about paying their welfare bill though. The north has a very high level of economic inactivity which seriously masks the employment figures. We'd have to pay for that.

I would say there would be rioting up there if they did not get the high levels of dole people get here (double UK levels), so the bill would be a lot higher than the 11 billion per year. Plus then we would bring HSE levels of disorganization to their NHS etc. A total mess.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If it's just for lebensraum i'd be all for a United Ireland. I get queasy about paying their welfare bill though. The north has a very high level of economic inactivity which seriously masks the employment figures. We'd have to pay for that.

As we move deeper and deeper into crisis in the EU - A UI represents more and more a viable solution for everyone bar died in the wool partitionists and belligerent Unionists.

It solves the UK's problem
Solves the EU's problem
and solves our (Ireland's) problem.
It also secures the majority wish in NI to stay in the EU.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As we move deeper and deeper into crisis in the EU - A UI represents more and more a viable solution for everyone bar died in the wool partitionists and belligerent Unionists.

It solves the UK's problem
Solves the EU's problem
and solves our (Ireland's) problem.
It also secures the majority wish in NI to stay in the EU.

It doesn't solve any problem and creates more.

Dytalus

15-20 years

blanch152 wrote: »

It doesn't solve any problem and creates more.

Now you must know that's not true.

United Ireland solves the border/backstop issue with the UK being out of the Single Market and RoI remaining in it. That right there solves the UK and EU's current major stumbling block with Brexit (assuming that the border issue isn't simply the current excuse as to why the WA hasn't been signed, and that another wouldn't crop up if it became a non-issue).

You can argue that it will create newer problems that outweigh the current ones and leaves all parties (the people of NI and RoI in particular) in a more difficult situation, and that's fair enough (unionist violence, economic hardship across the whole island, etc). But it's a bit of a leap to say it solves none of the problems.

NaFirinne

I think Northern Ireland, Scotland and Ireland should come together as one.

blanch152

Dytalus wrote: »

Now you must know that's not true.

United Ireland solves the border/backstop issue with the UK being out of the Single Market and RoI remaining in it. That right there solves the UK and EU's current major stumbling block with Brexit (assuming that the border issue isn't simply the current excuse as to why the WA hasn't been signed, and that another wouldn't crop up if it became a non-issue).

You can argue that it will create newer problems that outweigh the current ones and leaves all parties (the people of NI and RoI in particular) in a more difficult situation, and that's fair enough (unionist violence, economic hardship across the whole island, etc). But it's a bit of a leap to say it solves none of the problems.

It doesn't solve the problem of Brexit, it addresses some aspects of it. Ireland would still be much better off if Brexit never happens.

shesty

Four months ago I thought maybe in my lifetime.Maybe.

Now the noises I am hearing in the last week or so are suggesting to me maybe a bit sooner than just my lifetime.And that this is being considered as a real possibility.

There's lot of posts here about how hard it will be, how much work there will be, the million reasons why it would be a mess.

But it is like Brexit in that regard -it will a s$%tshow for a period of time, but that does not mean that it cannot happen.And if push comes to shove, that it could happen sooner rather than later.

I mean if you were looking at it in a cold, clinical way, it is the obvious solution to the whole Brexit mess.Cut NI out of Britain, Brexit is solved.The Brits can dance merrily off into the sunset, and fundamentally, we are left with the mess (because there is no way in hell Britain would be helping out once it has exited stage left).Unfortunately, this is a prospect that is now raising it's head.I am detecting mild panic beginning to come from Leinster House in this regard.

None of the bureaucratical mess that could be left behind will matter though, if the violence returns.I just don't think I could stomach the thought of that.

munsterlegend

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think Northern Ireland, Scotland and Ireland should come together as one.

Decent enough football team anyway and maybe rugby.