How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sigh...I hope downcow you can see the 'ducking and diving' going on here.
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I assume you answered the question then Francie as to what the main aim of pira was ie was it civil rights? Maybe I just missed you clear answer

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

The 5 original objectives in 1967 were different to that.

:)

Formed in Belfast on 9 April 1967,[1] the civil rights campaign attempted to achieve reform by publicising, documenting, and lobbying for an end to discrimination in areas such as elections (which were subject to gerrymandering and property requirements), discrimination in employment, in public housing and alleged abuses of the Special Powers Act.[2]

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I assume you answered the question then Francie as to what the main aim of pira was ie was it civil rights? Maybe I just missed you clear answer

I did above ^^

janfebmar

downcow wrote: »

I assume you answered the question then Francie as to what the main aim of pira was ie was it civil rights? Maybe I just missed you clear answer

You will not get a straight answer out of Francie.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Simple question...simple answer required.

You 'have always been clear' on the justification of the Civil Rights Campaign.

Did you agree with their 6 demands?

I have never given unequivocal total support to any political movement or party and I never will. I know you will find that hard to understand given your non-stop defence of every single thing the republican movement does but that is my way, I am not indoctrinated.

So I am not going to go into detail on each and every point that the civil rights movement did or didn’t make. That would only lead me down a long and winding pedantic and ultimately pointless road with you.

I am sure you will proclaim another victory as you are prone to do, but who cares?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never given unequivocal total support to any political movement or party and I never will. I know you will find that hard to understand given your non-stop defence of every single thing the republican movement does but that is my way, I am not indoctrinated.

So I am not going to go into detail on each and every point that the civil rights movement did or didn’t make. That would only lead me down a long and winding pedantic and ultimately pointless road with you.

I am sure you will proclaim another victory as you are prone to do, but who cares?

So you are back pedaling too but in a more roundabout way.

I don't need 'victory' but clarity. And that is fairly clear, you supported the Civil Rights Movement...but......

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are back pedaling too but in a more roundabout way.

I don't need 'victory' but clarity. And that is fairly clear, you supported the Civil Rights Movement...but......

I would like to see a UI as long as it doesn't cost me more in tax and there's no violence. Then I read your comments on this thread and others and I hope Ireland is never unified.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I would like to see a UI as long as it doesn't cost me more in tax and there's no violence. Then I read your comments on this thread and others and I hope Ireland is never unified.

You would like to see a UI, but because a random poster on the internet annoys you, you don't.

Something leads to believe that your initial 'desire' wasn't that strong to begin with, if it existed at all. :D:D

There is violence all ready as a result of partition and it costs you tax as well and is about to cost a lot more too btw

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You would like to see a UI, but because a random poster on the internet annoys you, you don't.

Something leads to believe that your initial 'desire' wasn't that strong to begin with, if it existed at all. :D:D

There is violence all ready as a result of partition and it costs you tax as well and is about to cost a lot more too btw

If Francie is a random poster then Lord Haw Haw or Comical Ali were just random commentators.:D

There is violence already but most of the recent violence is coming from Republicans. Even so, there is far more gun violence here in the republic than in N. Ireland per head of population over the past few decades.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

If Francie is a random poster then Lord Haw Haw or Comical Ali were just random commentators.:D

There is violence already but most of the recent violence is coming from Republicans. Even so, there is far more gun violence here in the republic than in N. Ireland per head of population over the past few decades.

Perhaps that poster should review his/her decision to live in Ireland.

My quest is to end the violence caused by partition, that is what this thread is about after all. Not ignore it like partitionists like to do.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Perhaps that poster should review his/her decision to live in Ireland.

My quest is to end the violence caused by partition, that is what this thread is about after all. Not ignore it like partitionists like to do.

You can review your decision to live in Ireland if you want.

If your quest is to end violence, a good start would be to condemn it, rather than making excuses for it.

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Perhaps that poster should review his/her decision to live in Ireland.

My quest is to end the violence caused by partition, that is what this thread is about after all. Not ignore it like partitionists like to do.

So I should leave and have no opinion because I'm an immigrant. Thanks Paddy Trump.

What I was trying to point out was your attitude and the way you express yourself on here actually pushes away potential supporters. But that's ok. You're clearly a xenophobe so I shouldn't expect any sort of intelligent argument.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So I should leave and have no opinion because I'm an immigrant. Thanks Paddy Trump.

What I was trying to point out was your attitude and the way you express yourself on here actually pushes away potential supporters. But that's ok. You're clearly a xenophobe so I shouldn't expect any sort of intelligent argument.

That was actually a remark aimed at jan who is desperate to get everyone to ignore the death and violence that is still happening as a result of partition. She will even misrepresent it as 'mainly coming from republicans' , so desperate is she.
If you would rather that kind of disingenuous debate then I make no apology for coming across badly. I don't routinely lie or misrepresent.

FrancieBrady

Just in case janfebmar's lie gains traction, this is a breakdown of whohas been responsible for the deaths since the GFA. There is no 'main' anyone.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are back pedaling too but in a more roundabout way.

I don't need 'victory' but clarity. And that is fairly clear, you supported the Civil Rights Movement...but......

I would like to see a UI as long as it doesn't cost me more in tax and there's no violence. Then I read your comments on this thread and others and I hope Ireland is never unified.

.....you're aware Francie is from Ireland, right? UI or not, you're stuck with him chief.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That was actually a remark aimed at jan who is desperate to get everyone to ignore the death and violence that is still happening as a result of partition. She will even misrepresent it as 'mainly coming from republicans' , so desperate is she.
.

I said "most of the recent" violence is coming from Republicans. If you look at the murder in Derry, the attempted murder / bomb in Fermanagh recently etc, that is true.

It is also true that many of the murders in NI over the past few decades were communitiess killing themselves. There has also been far more gun violence / murders in the Republic per head of population than in NI over the past few decades.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I said "most of the recent" violence is coming from Republicans. If you look at the murder in Derry, the attempted murder / bomb in Fermanagh recently etc, that is true.

If you engage in 'the politics of the last atrocity', then you would be right. However as the table shows the violence is coming from both communities in equal measure.

It is also true that many of the murders in NI over the past few decades were communitiess killing themselves.

Ah, so now it is, ignore it, look over there, because it is intra community?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If you engage in 'the politics of the last atrocity', then you would be right. However as the table shows the violence is coming from both communities in equal measure.



Ah, so now it is, ignore it, look over there, because it is intra community?

I said "most of the recent" . You are going back 2 decades.

The other point you miss is that there is more gun violence in this state than in N Ireland. Why do you not devote some of your 20,000 plus posts to solving violence in this state, seeing it is worse than in the jurisdiction next door?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I said "most of the recent" . You are going back 2 decades.

The other point you miss is that there is more gun violence in this state than in N Ireland. Why do you not devote some of your 20,000 plus posts to solving violence in this state, seeing it is worse than in the jurisdiction next door?

Why don't you offer some solutions to 2 decades of death and violence on a thread about that?

If you want to open a thread about violence in other parts of the world do so.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why don't you offer some solutions to 2 decades of death and violence on a thread about that?

If you want to open a thread about violence in other parts of the world do so.

This state is not "other parts of the world" Francie. This thread is about Irish unification. We have established there is more gun violence in this state than in N. Ireland. Here in the Republic we have a gun-murder rate six times worse than Britain.

Quote: The CSO recorded a total of 77 homicides in Ireland for 2018 but worryingly it also said that the quality of the statistics given to them by the Department of Justice ‘do not meet the standard required of official statistics published by the CSO’.

The CSO says that the number of homicides reported between 2003 and 2016 was underestimated by approximately 18% meaning that some 234 deaths were not recorded during that period.

Despite these omissions, we can still see some startling trends in murder in Ireland.

In the 10 years between 2005 and 2015, 201 Irish citizens were killed by firearms.

During the same 10-year period, in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) a total of 454 citizens were killed by a firearm.

When you factor in that we have a population of 4.6 million people, while the population of Britain is 65 million, it is apparent that our gun-murder rate is six times greater than theirs.




Why would N. Ireland want to join us if we are more violent?

As regards offering solutions to reducing our murder and violence rates, it should be a given that all commentators condemn paramilitary activity. I condemned the paramilitaries on both sides, you do not.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

This state is not "other parts of the world" Francie. This thread is about Irish unification. We have established there is more gun violence in this state than in N. Ireland. Why would N. Ireland want to join us if we are more violent?

As regards offering solutions to reducing our murder and violence rates, it should be a given that all commentators condemn paramilitary activity, past and present. You do not. You encourage present day paramilitaries, because they see themselves as just continuing the tradition of republican resistance to British rule. You have condoned Republican "physical force activity" in the past, you saw and see that just the same as dissidents see their own activity now.

No solutions...just more lies about another poster and more lies about the conflict which isn't just about 'republican' violence.

You really can't help yourself.

Partition is about to cause massive problems for this state and NI, which will not be about republican/loyalist issues, initially anyhow..

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Partition is about to cause massive problems for this state and NI,..

It was Republicans who wanted partition in these islands, everyone else was happy enough without partition. If other island groups were partitioned, there would be trouble there too...it is usual for island groups to be united.

The high murder rate in this state has nothing to do with partition.
Quote: "The CSO recorded a total of 77 homicides in Ireland for 2018 but worryingly it also said that the quality of the statistics given to them by the Department of Justice ‘do not meet the standard required of official statistics published by the CSO’.

The CSO says that the number of homicides reported between 2003 and 2016 was underestimated by approximately 18% meaning that some 234 deaths were not recorded during that period.

Despite these omissions, we can still see some startling trends in murder in Ireland.

In the 10 years between 2005 and 2015, 201 Irish citizens were killed by firearms.

During the same 10-year period, in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) a total of 454 citizens were killed by a firearm.

When you factor in that we have a population of 4.6 million people, while the population of Britain is 65 million, it is apparent that our gun-murder rate is six times greater than theirs. "

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

It was Republicans whonwanted partition in these islands, everyone else was happy enough without partition. If other islands were partitioned, there would be trouble there too...it is usual for island groups to be united.

:D:D:D You never disappoint in the preposterous claims anyway.

Nite janfebmar. Time for bed.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why don't you offer some solutions to 2 decades of death and violence on a thread about that?

If you want to open a thread about violence in other parts of the world do so.

This state is not "other parts of the world" Francie. This thread is about Irish unification. We have established there is more gun violence in this state than in N. Ireland. Here in the Republic we have a gun-murder rate six times worse than Britain.

Quote: The CSO recorded a total of 77 homicides in Ireland for 2018 but worryingly it also said that the quality of the statistics given to them by the Department of Justice ‘do not meet the standard required of official statistics published by the CSO’.

The CSO says that the number of homicides reported between 2003 and 2016 was underestimated by approximately 18% meaning that some 234 deaths were not recorded during that period.

Despite these omissions, we can still see some startling trends in murder in Ireland.

In the 10 years between 2005 and 2015, 201 Irish citizens were killed by firearms.

During the same 10-year period, in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) a total of 454 citizens were killed by a firearm.

When you factor in that we have a population of 4.6 million people, while the population of Britain is 65 million, it is apparent that our gun-murder rate is six times greater than theirs.




Why would N. Ireland want to join us if we are more violent?

As regards offering solutions to reducing our murder and violence rates, it should be a given that all commentators condemn paramilitary activity. I condemned the paramilitaries on both sides, you do not.

Why are you cherry picking out gun crime, Jan?

How about you take a look at the broader UK homicide figures. I believe this conversation came up earlier in this thread, and I provided quite in depth detail to demonstrate that wider violent crime and homicide rates are much higher in the UK than Ireland. Gun related homicide is certainly an anomaly here, which is worth exploring, but quit the b*ll****.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D You never disappoint in the preposterous claims anyway.

Nite janfebmar. Time for bed.

No doubt you will be back tomorrow blaming the reason we (Republic of Ireland) have a gun-murder rate six times higher than Britains is because of the 800 year occupation and its all the Brits fault. Yawn.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Why are you cherry picking out gun crime, Jan?

How about you take a look at the broader UK homicide figures. I believe this conversation came up earlier in this thread, and I provided quite in depth detail to demonstrate that wider violent crime and homicide rates are much higher in the UK than Ireland. Gun related homicide is certainly an anomaly here, which is worth exploring, but quit the b*ll****.

You correct Fionn, you debunked her theory conclusively but here she is back claiming it again, as if it had some relevance.
janfebmar is a past master of misrepresentation of other posters opinions and data.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You correct Fionn, you debunked her theory conclusively but here she is back claiming it again, as if it had some relevance.
janfebmar is a past master of misrepresentation of other posters opinions and data.

Francie / Fionn you did not debunk any theory because what I stated about the gun murder rate were facts, not theory.

mattser

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You correct Fionn, you debunked her theory conclusively but here she is back claiming it again, as if it had some relevance.
janfebmar is a past master of misrepresentation of other posters opinions and data.

Francie / Fionn you did not debunk any theory because what I stated about the gun murder rate were facts, not theory.

And so ends another full day of idiocy

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You correct Fionn, you debunked her theory conclusively but here she is back claiming it again, as if it had some relevance.
janfebmar is a past master of misrepresentation of other posters opinions and data.

Francie / Fionn you did not debunk any theory because what I stated about the gun murder rate were facts, not theory.

Sure thing, Jan. I agreed that the gun homicide rate was anomalously high here. You failed to address my point that the OVERALL homicide rates are lower here. Why are you ignoring this?

Are you less dead if you're stabbed to death instead of shot? You may or may not be aware that the UK has a much higher knife crime rate than we do. Why are you ignoring this while trying to suggest you're more likely to be murdered here?

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Sure thing, Jan. I agreed that the gun homicide rate was anomalously high here. You failed to address my point that the OVERALL homicide rates are lower here. Why are you ignoring this?

Are you less dead if you're stabbed to death instead of shot? You may or may not be aware that the UK has a much higher knife crime rate than we do. Why are you ignoring this while trying to suggest you're more likely to be murdered here?

We know why it's being ignored Fionn. Jan is 'wiping the floor' again.