How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Just saw this post, no 3455, from this afternoon, when I was doing other things Francie said:


I find that difficult to believe Francie.

Most of what you say is true I assume and I respect your right to have your own opinions. I cannot help but seem to remember you saying you were from Co. Monaghan I think. Your local Minister is Heather Humphries, since 2014. She often speaks on matters to do with religion, for example on the fine gael website page on her, the first news headline was Minister Heather Humphreys speaking at the Launch of "Protestant and Irish:" etc etc. According to the wiki page on her, her father is a member of the Orange Order.

As you have a 24/7 interest in politics (fair enough), I personally do not find it credible you did not know your local TD (since 2011 I think) and minister was a protestant. Indeed she is from what some would dub as the only protestant village in the Republic. According to reports, "It has 100 inhabitants, no GAA club, no pub, and four churches, all of various Protestant denominations, including a branch of the late Ian Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church. " Maybe you just forgot?

I know of her, and I respect her and her values and opinions, even though I am not in her constituency. You being close to the border, I thought you of all people would know the basic background of your local Minister in our Government? What else do you say that we can ...errr...perhaps take with a pinch of salt?

You are correct, I simply and genuinely forgot to mention Heather. I know her and have dealt with her on a number of programmes and projects, the last thing I would be bothered about would be her religion tbh.

As regards the rest of even my local TDs and the government, I wouldn't know and wouldn't care tbh.
What religion anyone is, doesn't bother me as I am not in any way religious myself.

Hobosan

I fear Rory Bests lineout throws during the weekend may have set Irish unification back 50 years.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What religion anyone is, doesn't bother me as I am not in any way religious myself.

I did not say it would bother you, but I though it would register with you. For example, most people would know that Leo was gay, even if they were not in any way sexual themselves. It does not bother most people, but when it comes to politics and the border, I thought people would sort of register or remember what religion politicians were, even if they were not religious themselves.

It is refreshing to find people who do not care about a persons religion, for example I know of a Catholic in a Masonic lodge and some Catholics who vote unionist in N.I., and nobody is bothered.

mattser

janfebmar wrote: »

Just saw this post, no 3455, from this afternoon, when I was doing other things Francie said:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't have a clue who would be protestant in our present Government, nor would I care, particularly.

I find that difficult to believe Francie.

Most of what you say is true I assume and I respect your right to have your own opinions. I cannot help but seem to remember you saying you were from Co. Monaghan I think. Your local Minister is Heather Humphries, since 2014. She often speaks on matters to do with religion, for example on the fine gael website page on her, the first news headline was Minister Heather Humphreys speaking at the Launch of "Protestant and Irish:" etc etc. According to the wiki page on her, her father is a member of the Orange Order.

As you have a 24/7 interest in politics (fair enough), I personally do not find it credible you did not know your local TD (since 2011 I think) and minister was a protestant. Indeed she is from what some would dub as the only protestant village in the Republic. According to reports, "It has 100 inhabitants, no GAA club, no pub, and four churches, all of various Protestant denominations, including a branch of the late Ian Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church. " Maybe you just forgot?

I know of her, and I respect her and her values and opinions, even though I am not in her constituency. You being close to the border, I thought you of all people would know the basic background of your local Minister in our Government? What else do you say that we can ...errr...perhaps take with a pinch of salt?

mattser wrote: »

There's obviously limited, if none at all, moderation on this thread.
.

I think of Francie and I being like 2 people debating at a dinner party - it can get a little heated at times, we seldom agree, but there is no real need for moderation I think. I'll say one thing for him, he usually answers questions. It is interesting to see the perspectives of others.

Interesting indeed. The voters will give yourself and Francie's dinner party a wide berth I'd imagine.

mattser

janfebmar wrote: »

Just saw this post, no 3455, from this afternoon, when I was doing other things Francie said:

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wouldn't have a clue who would be protestant in our present Government, nor would I care, particularly.

I find that difficult to believe Francie.

Most of what you say is true I assume and I respect your right to have your own opinions. I cannot help but seem to remember you saying you were from Co. Monaghan I think. Your local Minister is Heather Humphries, since 2014. She often speaks on matters to do with religion, for example on the fine gael website page on her, the first news headline was Minister Heather Humphreys speaking at the Launch of "Protestant and Irish:" etc etc. According to the wiki page on her, her father is a member of the Orange Order.

As you have a 24/7 interest in politics (fair enough), I personally do not find it credible you did not know your local TD (since 2011 I think) and minister was a protestant. Indeed she is from what some would dub as the only protestant village in the Republic. According to reports, "It has 100 inhabitants, no GAA club, no pub, and four churches, all of various Protestant denominations, including a branch of the late Ian Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church. " Maybe you just forgot?

I know of her, and I respect her and her values and opinions, even though I am not in her constituency. You being close to the border, I thought you of all people would know the basic background of your local Minister in our Government? What else do you say that we can ...errr...perhaps take with a pinch of salt?

mattser wrote: »

There's obviously limited, if none at all, moderation on this thread.
.

I think of Francie and I being like 2 people debating at a dinner party - it can get a little heated at times, we seldom agree, but there is no real need for moderation I think. I'll say one thing for him, he usually answers questions. It is interesting to see the perspectives of others.

Interesting indeed. The voters will give yourself and Francie's dinner party a wide berth I'd imagine.

Beasty

30-40 years

mattser wrote: »

There's obviously limited, if none at all, moderation on this thread.

If you have a problem with a post or poster, report it and leave it to the mods to have a look at. Do not comment on moderation here

Any questions, PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Thanks

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just in case janfebmar's lie gains traction, this is a breakdown of whohas been responsible for the deaths since the GFA. There is no 'main' anyone.

can i have a link please

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are correct, I simply and genuinely forgot to mention Heather. I know her and have dealt with her on a number of programmes and projects, the last thing I would be bothered about would be her religion tbh.

As regards the rest of even my local TDs and the government, I wouldn't know and wouldn't care tbh.
What religion anyone is, doesn't bother me as I am not in any way religious myself.

Thats quite a change in thinking for you. Were you on the road to Damascus at the weekend? You seemed awfully bothered about the religious make up of the RUC etc last week lol

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

can i have a link please

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43862294

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Thats quite a change in thinking for you. Were you on the road to Damascus at the weekend? You seemed awfully bothered about the religious make up of the RUC etc last week lol

That's the core problem downcow.
In the south it truly doesn't matter what religion you are.

Where you live sadly it is. You even have a political organisation called the OO to make sure one religion stays top dog and it achieved that for years and years.

janfebmar

F

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the core problem downcow.
In the south it truly doesn't matter what religion you are.

Where you live sadly it is. You even have a political organisation called the OO to make sure one religion stays top dog and it achieved that for years and years.

I think (and am open to correction) for only one or 2 years out of the past 100 years the political leader of N Ireland has been a member of the Orange Order, so they are not really on top, are they?

In what way do they try to stay "top dog" because the minority has got a lot bigger in the past 100 years in N Ireland and smaller south of the border, so they are not doing a very good job of it if they are? In terms of policies, in what way is the OO different to the Catholic Church or Opus Dei? It seems to me that NeTemere , from the Catholic church in the 20th century, had a far bigger effect in making sure one religion "stays on top" than the OO?
Not to mention the CC ban on contraception etc ...good for keeping numbers increasing of your flock but arguably bad for the planet.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In the south it truly doesn't matter what religion you are.
.

Nowadays you are quite correct Francie, for most people anyway. As long as you are not a unionist - they are still not liked by many Republicans.

How people forget what it was like only some decades ago though...for example in your own county, Billy Fox was a protestant politician and a member of Fine Gael, but he was still murdered by the IRA in Co Monaghan in 1974.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

F

I think (and am open to correction) for only one or 2 years out of the past 100 years the political leader of N Ireland has been a member of the Orange Order, so they are not really on top, are they?

By the 20th century, the Order had pervaded the highest echelons of society. Every prime minister of Northern Ireland, from Partition in 1921 to the return of direct rule in 1972, was an Orangeman, as are a number of current ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-18769781

Despite downcow 'phoning' Arlene this statement on her own page still stands:

In May 2018, she announced she would be leading an Orange Order march in Fife, Scotland. As a committed member of the Order, this was a reason behind the original defection from the UUP ten years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster

In what way do they try to stay "top dog" because the minority has got a lot bigger in the past 100 years in N Ireland and smaller south of the border, so they are not doing a very good job of it if they are?

The OO still 'resolve' to strengthen their identity by depriving others of theirs.

“We reaffirm our opposition to the introduction of any form of legislation for the Irish language. Such a move would have far reaching detrimental consequences for our British identity and would rightly be acknowledged as a landmark victory for republicanism in their ongoing cultural war against our community.”

What the Catholic Church does in the south is no excuse for the OO. If you want to discuss that, open a thread on it.

Fan of Netflix

30-40 years

Everyone around here knows Heather Humphreys is a Protestant. Her name is a clue. It is false to say her religion plays no part in Cavan Monaghan. Protestants here vote for her and Fine Gael. Before her they voted for Seymour Crawford. Her father is in the Orange Order, a lot of people don't like that or them here so it wouldn't be on her election leaflets lets say.

Anyway the point is Francie if your a Monaghan man involved in politics or an interest in it you surely know all this. Its not really credible to say you don't know her religion or that it doesn't matter here.

FrancieBrady

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Everyone around here knows Heather Humphreys is a Protestant. Her name is a clue. It is false to say her religion plays no part in Cavan Monaghan. Protestants here vote for her and Fine Gael. Before her they voted for Seymour Crawford. Her father is in the Orange Order, a lot of people don't like that or them here so it wouldn't be on her election leaflets lets say.

Anyway the point is Francie if your a Monaghan man involved in politics or an interest in it you surely know all this. Its not really credible to say you don't know her religion or that it doesn't matter here.

I deal with Heather several times a year, it was a genuine case of forgetting her when I made the comment. Her religion may be of importance to some, but it has genuinely never had any impact in my dealings with her.
I knew Seymour before her too. Both decent people who represented all of their constituents.
There is a joke about Heather that she would turn up to the opening of the crib if there was a photo op in it. An old school, conservative FG TD.

Funny story as an aside. I actually could have ended Seymour's career when he rang me by mistake from his Dail office and left a rather incriminating message on my answerphone about a 'favour' he had done for the intended recipient of the call. Calling him back to tell him was even funnier.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43862294

I thought you may have only given half the truth., heres some of the stuff you missed

"For the most part though the victims of loyalist paramilitaries have been other loyalist paramilitaries - sometimes members of the same grouping, and sometimes of rival loyalist organisations. In total 41 loyalist paramilitaries have been killed. In every single case the perpetrators were other loyalist paramilitaries.
Republican paramilitaries have not engaged in feuds in the same way; instead their victims have tended to be those in their own communities who were unlucky enough to cross their paths."

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the core problem downcow.
In the south it truly doesn't matter what religion you are.

Where you live sadly it is. You even have a political organisation called the OO to make sure one religion stays top dog and it achieved that for years and years.

you are rambling!
so you do or you don't care what religion people are?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I thought you may have only given half the truth., heres some of the stuff you missed

"For the most part though the victims of loyalist paramilitaries have been other loyalist paramilitaries - sometimes members of the same grouping, and sometimes of rival loyalist organisations. In total 41 loyalist paramilitaries have been killed. In every single case the perpetrators were other loyalist paramilitaries.
Republican paramilitaries have not engaged in feuds in the same way; instead their victims have tended to be those in their own communities who were unlucky enough to cross their paths."

That point had already been made and I didn't disagree with it nor do i now disagree with it.
My obkection was to the attempt to portray it as a problem caused by republicans alone. As the figures show - it isn't.


A death is a death and both communities are equally responsible for them.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-18769781

Despite downcow 'phoning' Arlene this statement on her own page still stands:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlene_Foster
.

Francie. You continue to wallow in Francieland but I can assure you SHE IS NOT no ever HAS BEEN a member of the OO

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That point had already been made and I didn't disagree with it nor do i now disagree with it.
My obkection was to the attempt to portray it as a problem caused by republicans alone. As the figures show - it isn't.


A death is a death and both communities are equally responsible for them.

most people would see drug gangs killing each others members as very different from the killing of Lyra McKee

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That point had already been made and I didn't disagree with it nor do i now disagree with it.
My obkection was to the attempt to portray it as a problem caused by republicans alone. As the figures show - it isn't.


A death is a death and both communities are equally responsible for them.

If
"For the most part though the victims of loyalist paramilitaries have been other loyalist paramilitaries - sometimes members of the same grouping, and sometimes of rival loyalist organisations. In total 41 loyalist paramilitaries have been killed. In every single case the perpetrators were other loyalist paramilitaries.
Republican paramilitaries have not engaged in feuds in the same way; instead their victims have tended to be those in their own communities who were unlucky enough to cross their paths."

How were these Catholics crossing the path of republican paramilitaries? - were they not doing what they were being told??? could the republican mafias be alive and well?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

you are rambling!
so you do or you don't care what religion people are?

I care when a 'political' organisation uses religion to get what it wants. And the OO masks itself behind protestantism to achieve it's ultra Unionist/Loyalist aims.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. You continue to wallow in Francieland but I can assure you SHE IS NOT no ever HAS BEEN a member of the OO

You need to link to some proof.


Remember you are the same poster who ranted about me saying Ian Paisley was a member. You were also 'adamant' that he wasn't until it was proved to you with a 'link'.

I am happy to retract if that wiki statement is wrong, but sorry, your 'word' isn't good enough.
Even if she isn't a member, she is happy, like Ian, to be associated with it's values and to lead their parades.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

If
"For the most part though the victims of loyalist paramilitaries have been other loyalist paramilitaries - sometimes members of the same grouping, and sometimes of rival loyalist organisations. In total 41 loyalist paramilitaries have been killed. In every single case the perpetrators were other loyalist paramilitaries.
Republican paramilitaries have not engaged in feuds in the same way; instead their victims have tended to be those in their own communities who were unlucky enough to cross their paths."

How were these Catholics crossing the path of republican paramilitaries? - were they not doing what they were being told??? could the republican mafias be alive and well?

People are dying downcow...that concerns me, even if you are content to ignore it.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People are dying downcow...that concerns me, even if you are content to ignore it.

Six times more people die by gunshot per head of population in our own jurisdiction than in Britain, over the past 20 years. You are not concerned at our own murder victims?

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I care when a 'political' organisation uses religion to get what it wants.

Political organisation? I never saw them taking their seats in parliament, or the name of their organisation on a ballot paper. Would you say they are socialist leaning or capitalist leaning?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Six times more people die by gunshot per head of population in our own jurisdiction than in Britain, over the past 20 years. You are not concerned at our own murder victims?

Now how did you extrapolate that?

Tell us your thought process here. We will soon see how it is a desperate attempt at deflecting away from the subject at hand.

Fan of Netflix

30-40 years

Francie realistically speaking when do you think a united Ireland will happen, if at all? Same question to janfebmar.

Dytalus

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Political organisation? I never saw them taking their seats in parliament, or the name of their organisation on a ballot paper. Would you say they are socialist leaning or capitalist leaning?

C'mon, Jan. Organisations can be political without actually being political parties. There's gotta be other, less absurd arguments to take against that.

Digital Rights Ireland, Iona Institute, the IIEA, the Irish Free Software Organisation....all political advocacy groups that do not stand for election. I would imagine it's pretty clear Francie meant organisations like that or else they'd have likely said "political parties".

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Political organisation? I never saw them taking their seats in parliament, or the name of their organisation on a ballot paper. Would you say they are socialist leaning or capitalist leaning?

Again...why would they have to stand in an election to be a 'political organisation'? Or indeed narrowly defined within 'socialism' or 'capitalism'?

They lobby and influence on political issues. Specifically those that threaten their British identity. Which they seem to think can be denied by blocking the rights other identities want.