How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Dytalus wrote: »

C'mon, Jan. Organisations can be political without actually being political parties. There's gotta be other, less absurd arguments to take against that.

Digital Rights Ireland, Iona Institute, the IIEA, the Irish Free Software Organisation....all political advocacy groups that do not stand for election. I would imagine it's pretty clear Francie meant organisations like that or else they'd have likely said "political parties".

The amount of time wasted responding to janfebmar's pedantry is ridiculous.

Imagine trying to claim that the OO has not sought political influence since it's foundation...utterly clueless.

FrancieBrady

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Francie realistically speaking when do you think a united Ireland will happen, if at all? Same question to janfebmar.

No deal Brexit - within 10 years. Brexit with a Deal - within 20.

UK breaks up...shortly after that happens.

shesty

downcow wrote: »

Just remember there are almost 1 million Brits living on this Island and I don't think they will all be dancing off into the sunset

No they won't.
Hence the next bit where I said we would be left to deal with the mess.
I would think it is extremely unlikely that mainland UK would be looking back to check are they ok though.

Fan of Netflix

30-40 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No deal Brexit - within 10 years. Brexit with a Deal - within 20.

UK breaks up...shortly after that happens.

Interesting. I actually can't see a deal being reached. I don't even think Boris and co want one.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People are dying downcow...that concerns me, even if you are content to ignore it.

Six times more people die by gunshot per head of population in our own jurisdiction than in Britain, over the past 20 years. You are not concerned at our own murder victims?

As I highlighted earlier in the thread, I'm not surprised to see a return to this obviously cherry picked statistic.

Intentional homicide rates (2017 figures are the most recent I can find). Figures are homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

Ireland - 0.9
United Kingdom- 1.2
Specifically N.I. 1.3

Figures from UNODC - https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app

Surely overall homicide figures are a much more useful statistic, unless one was trying to push some sort of agenda? I'd be more concerned with the likelihood of being murdered than the specific method. Dead is dead whether shot or stabbed.

FrancieBrady

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Interesting. I actually can't see a deal being reached. I don't even think Boris and co want one.

If there is a No Deal, the lobbying for a Border Poll will be intense.

That is what Unionism should fear most imo...A Border Poll were it suits Brexiteers if they can cut lose NI and get the isolation they crave.

But they seem hell bent on it. Maybe they know something I don't.

But if they are not listening to the very clear message that Brexiteers would rather lose them than lose Brexit, that it suits the EU down to the ground to have a UI, and that it solves a hell of a lot of problems for everybody then they are fools and the generation that ends partition imo.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

.

Imagine trying to claim that the OO has not sought political influence since it's foundation...utterly clueless.

You said they were a political organisation. Now you are growing back and just saying something else. If the OO is a political organisation, then surely the Catholic church is one too, in that it has "sought political influence", to use your own words?

James Brown

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

You said they were a political organisation. Now you are growing back and just saying something else. If the OO is a political organisation, then surely the Catholic church is one too?

So what(aboutery)? They don't cancel each other out. Can you speak on anything without 'look over there!'.
The Catholic church has played a major political role but thankfully as we evolve it holds less influence.
A big difference would be that one is a religion and the other an organisation based on a battle from far back in history.
Members of the Orange Order, wouldn't have an interest in politics no :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

You said they were a political organisation. Now you are growing back and just saying something else. If the OO is a political organisation, then surely the Catholic church is one too, in that it has "sought political influence", to use your own words?

Again...I could care less what the Catholic Church is or isn't. Why do you continually point over there?

The OO is a 'Political Organisation' here is one of it's leaders repudiating your bull**** timewasting and pointing over there, as recently as this year.

GrandMaster Edward Stevenson wrote:

Political influence must be maximised to meet the challenges ahead. If we are to indeed see a general election in the next year – there is a real challenge for unionism as a whole in ensuring that we re-engage with non-voters and to re-energise unionist politics as an electoral force with a strong, attractive message.
This institution has played an important role in the elections of past generations and we must be willing to go the extra mile to help political unionism in the challenges ahead.

ELM327

15-20 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

As I highlighted earlier in the thread, I'm not surprised to see a return to this obviously cherry picked statistic.

Intentional homicide rates (2017 figures are the most recent I can find). Figures are homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

Ireland - 0.9
United Kingdom- 1.2
Specifically N.I. 1.3

Figures from UNODC - https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app

Surely overall homicide figures are a much more useful statistic, unless one was trying to push some sort of agenda? I'd be more concerned with the likelihood of being murdered than the specific method. Dead is dead whether shot or stabbed.

Does the 0.9 include the 1.3?
IE - is "Ireland" referring to the ROI or Ireland as a whole?

Fionn1952

15-20 years

ELM327 wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

As I highlighted earlier in the thread, I'm not surprised to see a return to this obviously cherry picked statistic.

Intentional homicide rates (2017 figures are the most recent I can find). Figures are homicides per 100,000 inhabitants.

Ireland - 0.9
United Kingdom- 1.2
Specifically N.I. 1.3

Figures from UNODC - https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app

Surely overall homicide figures are a much more useful statistic, unless one was trying to push some sort of agenda? I'd be more concerned with the likelihood of being murdered than the specific method. Dead is dead whether shot or stabbed.

Does the 0.9 include the 1.3?
IE - is "Ireland" referring to the ROI or Ireland as a whole?

The data would be for the Irish state, so would not include the North.

janfebmar

Matt Barrett wrote: »

A big difference would be that one is a religion and the other an organisation based on a battle from far back in history.
Members of the Orange Order, wouldn't have an interest in politics no :rolleyes:

So you agree they are both organisations based on historical events. In both organisation you get all walks of life, people with left wing views, people with capitalist right wing views etc. One organisation is against contraception etc. One organisation gets its Angelus played here on the radio each day. How did you say the 2 organisations were different again?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

So you agree they are both organisations based on historical events. In both organisation you get all walks of life, people with left wing views, people with capitalist right wing views etc. One organisation is against contraception etc. One organisation gets its Angelus played here on the radio each day. How did you say the 2 organisations were different again?

Why does one make the other right?

The CC has been largely removed from political influence...WHICH WAS WRONG jan.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The amount of time wasted responding to janfebmar's pedantry is ridiculous.

Imagine trying to claim that the OO has not sought political influence since it's foundation...utterly clueless.

You are wasting time on this thread? Surprised at that. :D

eire4

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Interesting. I actually can't see a deal being reached. I don't even think Boris and co want one.

I have to agree with you. At this point it really does seem like it will be a no deal brexit. What happens after October 31st if indeed that does become reality is anybody's guess but a no deal brexit does seem quite likely at this point and while it is anybody's guess what exactly will happen at that point in general it does seem that the outcomes at that point look pretty bleak.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You are wasting time on this thread? Surprised at that. :D

Somebody sent me a screenshot of your last post blanch, I can understand why you quickly deleted it, but this one ^ isn't much better. Do try harder.

James Brown

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

So you agree they are both organisations based on historical events. In both organisation you get all walks of life, people with left wing views, people with capitalist right wing views etc. One organisation is against contraception etc. One organisation gets its Angelus played here on the radio each day. How did you say the 2 organisations were different again?

You do in your hole Jan. There are no OO members looking for a UI for example. I doubt many Shinners are in their member.
One is a religion and one an order/club based on a 'heritage' regarding a battle mostly. Also I couldn't care less about either
What about the Free Masons Jan, they've had influence on politics. How do you explain that?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

Ireland vastly outperforms both regions in progression to Third level qualifications for students. NI currently sees the majority of the low number of those who do apply for college go to the Uk and Ireland and don’t return. Massive brain drain that’s an ongoing and unsustainable.

Students from the catholic community are 30% ahead of their Protestant cousins when it comes to college applications.

Dwindling support for SF and DUP being savages by their hardcore for their suicidal stance on brexit.

Majority of voters support the backstop. Majority of voters would vote for a United Ireland.

These are just some of the the factors combining to bring about that referendum. A United ireland is mentioned multiple times a day on stations like LBC. It seems majority of Brits want it to happen too as they see it as solving brexit.

To think there’s posters still here, on early pages of this very thread, saying the conversation about a UI would never even happen. Now it’s a daily topic. Lol. Looking at you blanch

Strap in lads. Change is seemingly always out of reach in Ireland and then jumps up on you out of nowhere. Get used to the idea.


Oh. And Scotland has too. Mad times.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Majority of voters support the backstop. Majority of voters would vote for a United Ireland.

First point, I 100% agree, second point, even as someone personally in favour of unification, I don't think we're there by a long shot (if you're referring to the people of the North in this post)

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

First point, I 100% agree, second point, even as someone personally in favour of unification, I don't think we're there by a long shot (if you're referring to the people of the North in this post)

Lucidtalk are going to be very busy in the weeks and months aged Brexit in whatever form it takes. The British are already recruiting a police from the uk to man the border. That’s not going to go down well at all in either community and please god it doesn’t lead to violence but in all likelihood it will. Yet one more example of British governments complete lack of any understanding of Northern Ireland as it stands.

Events will conspire as they always do and you’ll see them throw in the towel eventually faced with failure after repeated failure (see Emma de Souza’s case for a prime example of a loss and massive misstep on the home offices part) coupled with polling indicating a majority to leave the uk and it will happen.

Only way to avoid all this is of Boris puts the border in the sea. Dup will be apoplectic but t would concrete the status quo and the UI idea would blow away on a breeze. We’d just all accept the normal that we currently have. If the dup somehow feel less British by checks on livestock in the sea that already happen now anyways let them be.


They’re in a lose lose but border in the sea is their best option and they don’t even realize it.

janfebmar

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

.

Our national per capita debt is the highest in Europe, @ over $62,000. National Per capita debt is the UK is just over $52,000.

No need to read the rest of your post.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

.

Our national per capita debt is the highest in Europe, @ over $62,000. National Per capita debt is the UK is just over $52,000.

No need to read the rest of your post.

Debt per capita is an entirely useless figure.

If I have x amount of debt, and earn 10 times , you have 0.5x debt and earn 3 times x, I have a greater level of debt than you. Which of them is more sustainable?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Our national per capita debt is the highest in Europe, @ over $62,000. National Per capita debt is the UK is just over $52,000.

No need to read the rest of your post.

Cos reading and comprehension haven’t exactly been used to their full effects by you to date given your selective ignoring and selective quoting and misconstruing of countless posts, so no Change there, you do do.

but the national debt doesn’t actually have much of a bearing in the day to day and wage packet of the average joe. If you read the rest of the post you’d see actual societal impacts and factors in NI being left far behind in every single measurable way. Across it all from economy to education to FDI. All of it.

So if you continue to refuse to share that wealth and opportunities in a UI for the people of NI and Ireland post brexit you’re sort of being inhuman and uncaring. Are you not?

Surely we shouldn’t leave our fellow countrymen of both communities to suffer and starve in endless recession and depression and decline?

You want that? Surely not

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

janfebmar wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

.

Our national per capita debt is the highest in Europe, @ over $62,000. National Per capita debt is the UK is just over $52,000.

No need to read the rest of your post.

Debt per capita is an entirely useless figure.

If I have x amount of debt, and earn 10 times , you have 0.5x debt and earn 3 times x, I have a greater level of debt than you. Which of them is more sustainable?

Also, even though I think per capita debt is a pretty pointless figure, just to further highlight Jan's constant use of inaccuracies and selective statistics;

UK debt per capita - $127,000
Ireland debt per capita - $49,000

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/zaus/ukea

https://www.statista.com/statistics/270408/national-debt-of-ireland/

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Ouch. Cold hard facts there Jan.
No doubt you’ll disappear for a day or two waiting for the topic to have moved on rather tHan reply

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

janfebmar wrote: »

Political organisation? I never saw them taking their seats in parliament, or the name of their organisation on a ballot paper. Would you say they are socialist leaning or capitalist leaning?

Again...why would they have to stand in an election to be a 'political organisation'? Or indeed narrowly defined within 'socialism' or 'capitalism'?

They lobby and influence on political issues. Specifically those that threaten their British identity. Which they seem to think can be denied by blocking the rights other identities want.

What a BS merchant you are francie but it's great reading!

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

What a BS merchant you are francie but it's great reading!

You can’t argue his point so you attack him personally ? Good luck with that

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

What a BS merchant you are francie but it's great reading!

I'm delighted you got that off your chest but is it 'debate'?

You don't even have to go back more than a year even into the long history of the political machinations of this Order to find verification that they are a 'political' Order'

We reaffirm our opposition to the introduction of any form of legislation for the Irish language. Such a move would have far reaching detrimental consequences for our British identity and would rightly be acknowledged as a landmark victory for republicanism in their ongoing cultural war against our community.”

janfebmar

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Ouch. Cold hard facts there Jan.
No doubt you’ll disappear for a day or two waiting for the topic to have moved on rather tHan reply

You are confusing "external" debt with "public" debt, and for tax-haven locations like Ireland, Luxembourg and Singapore, "external debt" is a meaningless statistic, as none of it relates to the local economy.
Note that while a country may have a relatively large external debt (either in absolute or per capita terms) it could actually be a "net international creditor" if its external debt is less than the total of the external debt of other countries held by it. For example, although the UK has more external debt than France, it has more external assets giving it a stronger NIIP ( Net international investment position....net international debt by country ie external debt owing to other countries minus external debt of other countries held.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/this-is-how-much-debt-your-country-has-per-person/

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Ouch. Cold hard facts there Jan.
No doubt you’ll disappear for a day or two waiting for the topic to have moved on rather tHan reply

You are confusing "external" debt with "public" debt, and for tax-haven locations like Ireland, Luxembourg and Singapore, "external debt" is a meaningless statistic, as none of it relates to the local economy.
Note that while a country may have a relatively large external debt (either in absolute or per capita terms) it could actually be a "net international creditor" if its external debt is less than the total of the external debt of other countries held by it. For example, although the UK has more external debt than France, it has more external assets giving it a stronger NIIP ( Net international investment position....net international debt by country ie external debt owing to other countries minus external debt of other countries held.


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/this-is-how-much-debt-your-country-has-per-person/

Yes, Jan, as I said, national debt per capital figures are all pretty pointless, so why bring it up?

Public debt and external debts are all types of national debt, the onus is on you to be more specific with your pointless factoids.