How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, Jan, as I said, national debt per capital figures are all pretty pointless, so why bring it up?

Public debt and external debts are all types of national debt, the onus is on you to be more specific with your pointless factoids.

Janfebmar, again a victim of heading to google for 'instant education'.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

You were just undone by th very copy and paste google article you posted Jan.


Please. It’s getting pathetic at this stage

Charles Babbage

janfebmar wrote: »

So you agree they are both organisations based on historical events. In both organisation you get all walks of life, people with left wing views, people with capitalist right wing views etc. One organisation is against contraception etc. One organisation gets its Angelus played here on the radio each day. How did you say the 2 organisations were different again?

The biggest day for one is commemorating a battle in which thousands died, while the biggest days for the other is commemorating the birth and death of its founder.

Big difference.

janfebmar

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, Jan, as I said, national debt per capital figures are all pretty pointless, so why bring it up?

Someone else said the average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their UK counterparts, but I made the point it is not as simple as that.

I'll use a quote from weforum.org to explain national debt per person to you simply:

"One way to think about government debt is in per capita terms. So, for example, if the Japanese wanted to pay off their national debt, they would owe $90,345 each.

Among OECD countries, Ireland, the US and Italy are next, with $62,687, $61,539, and $58,693 respectively.

Belgium, at $58,134, is above the OECD average of $50,245.

Austria, France and Greece all have higher per capita debts than the UK, and their citizens would have to find almost $50,000 each ($49,975, $49,652 and $47,869 respectively)."

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Someone else said the average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their UK counterparts, but I made the point it is not as simple as that.

I'll use a quote from weforum.org to explain national debt per person to you simply:

"One way to think about government debt is in per capita terms. So, for example, if the Japanese wanted to pay off their national debt, they would owe $90,345 each.

Among OECD countries, Ireland, the US and Italy are next, with $62,687, $61,539, and $58,693 respectively.

Belgium, at $58,134, is above the OECD average of $50,245.

Austria, France and Greece all have higher per capita debts than the UK, and their citizens would have to find almost $50,000 each ($49,975, $49,652 and $47,869 respectively)."

Once again


UK debt per capita - $127,000
Ireland debt per capita - $49,000

And sterling is falling through the floor remember so the disparity will only get worse

The Rape of Lucretia

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

But the mean wealth per UK adult is $279,000. That of citizens of the southern Ireland 26 counties is $234,000.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

The average Irish citizen is 41% richer than their Uk counterparts and 56% richer than their NI counterparts.

But the mean wealth per UK adult is $279,000. That of citizens of the southern Ireland 26 counties is $234,000.

And Iceland has a mean wealth per adult of $555,726.....so f*cking what?!

What is it with gobsh*tes like you two and pointless statistics?

The Rape of Lucretia

Fionn1952 wrote: »

And Iceland has a mean wealth per adult of $555,726.....so f*cking what?!

What is it with gobsh*tes like you two and pointless statistics?

Well, two sentences there yourself. Both statistics. And both rather pointless, I would submit.

janfebmar

Fionn1952 wrote: »

And Iceland has a mean wealth per adult of $555,726.....so f*cking what?!

A pizza in center of Reykyavik will set you back $50, so just as well that is their mean wealth.;)

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

A pizza in center of Reykyavik will set you back $50, so just as well that is their mean wealth.;)

I’ll ask you again cos you ran away as usual. Answer this. Debate honestly. Hard as that might be for you.



So if you continue to refuse to share that wealth and opportunities in a UI for the people of NI and Ireland post brexit you’re sort of being inhuman and uncaring. Are you not?

Surely we shouldn’t leave our fellow countrymen of both communities to suffer and starve in endless recession and depression and decline?

You want that? Surely not

The Rape of Lucretia

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

So if you continue to refuse to share that wealth and opportunities in a UI for the people of NI and Ireland post brexit you’re sort of being inhuman and uncaring. Are you not?

Surely we shouldn’t leave our fellow countrymen of both communities to suffer and starve in endless recession and depression and decline?

You want that? Surely not

One certainly isnt being inhuman nor uncaring. Its not as if there will be mass starvation and death.

And, they are not our fellow country men. They are of a foreign country. It is not the responsibility of the 26 to minimise the impact of Brexit anywhere other than in the 26 (which will be harsh economic jolt that they are not ready for, so will be far too concerned with their own problems to worry about those of a neighbour).

janfebmar

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’ll ask you again cos you ran away as usual. Answer this. Debate honestly. Hard as that might be for you.



So if you continue to refuse to share that wealth and opportunities in a UI for the people of NI and Ireland post brexit you’re sort of being inhuman and uncaring. Are you not?

Surely we shouldn’t leave our fellow countrymen of both communities to suffer and starve in endless recession and depression and decline?

You want that? Surely not

If - and its a big if - things get as bad in the UK after Brexit as they were here in 2010, when the Troika - including the UK - gave us a bailout package worth €67 billion to keep the lights on here in Ireland, then I propose we throw them a few spare bob change, or get Sir Bob Geldof or Graham Norton back to organise a concert for them or something.

Far more likely will be the scenario that the UK thrives outside the EU in the medium and long term. The future of the EU is less certain, especially without the UK. A study has found the majority of Europeans think the EU will fall apart within 20 years. In France, 58% of respondents said it was realistic that the bloc would collapse within two decades, with 57% of Italian and Polish voters agreeing to that.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

One certainly isnt being inhuman nor uncaring. Its not as if there will be mass starvation and death.

And, they are not our fellow country men. They are of a foreign country. It is not the responsibility of the 26 to minimise the impact of Brexit anywhere other than in the 26 (which will be harsh economic jolt that they are not ready for, so will be far too concerned with their own problems to worry about those of a neighbour).

So you clearly have no understanding of the Good Friday agreement nor any understanding of Irish people.there will be deaths brought about by brexit. There already has been. Are you new here? We won’t stand by and watch people on our island suffer under a regime that doesn’t care about them and post brexit will forget about them and cut them off entirely. We’ve been through this ourselves under the same regime we know All too well the damage and destruction of it. We’re probably the most empathetic caring and decent people in the world and often demonstrably so throughout history.

Your last sentence is cruel and unusual but typical of the naysayers who realize their day is done. Shrieking harder at the sea doesn’t change the tide. The tide is changed and it’s coming in.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

If - and its a big if - things get as bad in the UK after Brexit as they were here in 2010, when the Troika - including the UK - gave us a bailout package worth €67 billion to keep the lights on here in Ireland, then I propose we throw them a few spare bob change, or get Sir Bob Geldof or Graham Norton back to organise a concert for them or something.

Far more likely will be the scenario that the UK thrives outside the EU in the medium and long term. The future of the EU is less certain, especially without the UK. A study has found the majority of Europeans think the EU will fall apart within 20 years. In France, 58% of respondents said it was realistic that the bloc would collapse within two decades, with 57% of Italian and Polish voters agreeing to that.

So you lost me at to laughter at the bolded part. You can somehow predict Eu collapse with no single shred of evidence. But you claim a UI won’t happen despite all evidence saying it’s inevitable.


You’re special I’ll give you that.

janfebmar

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You can somehow predict Eu collapse with no single shred of evidence. .

Some others are of the opinion the eventual disintegration and collapse of the EU is not a question of if but when. A major reason will be because there is no federalized debt. That has been the Achilles heel of the EU since its inception.
Then there is the growing Italian crisis etc

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

But you claim a UI won’t happen despite all evidence saying it’s inevitable.
.

It is not inevitable, it will not happen, not least because we cannot afford the financial cost or the violence.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Some others are of the opinion the eventual disintegration and collapse of the EU is not a question of if but when. A major reason will be because there is no federalized debt. That has been the Achilles heel of the EU since its inception.
Then there is the growing Italian crisis etc


.
It is not inevitable, it will not happen, not least because we cannot afford the financial cost or the violence.

You’re posting opinion of others without backup. As fact. Read The charter again.
You definitely don’t have much understanding or knowledge of the current global market. Funny that you don’t. Your precious United Kingdom is leaving the biggest trade bloc in the world to deal with this. Alone.

janfebmar

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You’re posting opinion of others without backup.

Look at the surveys on google. Look at the resignation last week of the Italian Prime Ministe, Conte, the the rise of a party there called the League, and its plans for a new Italian currency outside the Euro. Look at UK unemployment, it is only 3.7% compared to EU average of 6.3%. It is by no means certain the EU will thrive and the UK not thrive in the medium to long term. But believe what you want to believe anyway. I look at data from lots of different sources. Oh, and its not "my precious UK".

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I’ll ask you again cos you ran away as usual. Answer this. Debate honestly. Hard as that might be for you.



So if you continue to refuse to share that wealth and opportunities in a UI for the people of NI and Ireland post brexit you’re sort of being inhuman and uncaring. Are you not?

Surely we shouldn’t leave our fellow countrymen of both communities to suffer and starve in endless recession and depression and decline?

You want that? Surely not

Fellow countrymen?

We share this island, but they live in a different state.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

As attempts to completely avoid answering the questions as you are unable to answer go, that’s weak blanch.

Are we to leave the people we share this island with to suffer and stand by doing birthing as they lose their jobs by the thousands and their economy implodes?

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

As attempts to completely avoid answering the questions as you are unable to answer go, that’s weak blanch.

Are we to leave the people we share this island with to suffer and stand by doing birthing as they lose their jobs by the thousands and their economy implodes?

Why should we interfere? If the UK makes a democratic choice in accordance with its democratic arrangements to leave the EU, why should we interfere in their affairs?

Yes, we should look after our own interests and protect them in concert with our partners, but if the UK wants to jump off a cliff, it is not our responsibility to bail any of them out.

ittakestwo

20-30 years

For people in the middle up the north. Economics will be a huge influence. Would they feel better of if the north was in the UK or part of Ireland within the EU.

Also can the south afford the north? AFAIK the North runs a considerable deficit with the UK but because it makes up about 3% of the UK it's easy for it to be diluted. However if Ireland was united the North would make up about 30% of the country. Also public wages and social welfare is far higher in the south. So presumably public sectors pay and social welfare would have to be relined with the souths which would make their deficit and burden even higher.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

ittakestwo wrote: »

For people in the middle up the north. Economics will be a huge influence. Would they feel better of if the north was in the UK or part of Ireland within the EU.

Also can the south afford the north? AFAIK the North runs a considerable deficit with the UK but because it makes up about 3% of the UK it's easy for it to be diluted. However if Ireland was united the North would make up about 30% of the country. Also public wages and social welfare is far higher in the south. So presumably public sectors pay and social welfare would have to be relined with the souths which would make their deficit and burden even higher.

On the last point apparently it’s opposite and would reduce our deficit. I’ll try find a link
Plus NIs share of UK debt would be gone too so there’s that.
But we are by a long way more wealthy per person down here than the average joe up there.
Stats further up the page

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

On the last point apparently it’s opposite and would reduce our deficit. I’ll try find a link
Plus NIs share of UK debt would be gone too so there’s that.
But we are by a long way more wealthy per person down here than the average joe up there.
Stats further up the page

I would be very interested in those links.

I have previously compared things like unemployment benefit and child benefit and the rates in the South have been far higher than in the North and that there will be a huge cost in harmonising social welfare. If you have evidence that the rates are better in the North, please show them.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Why should we interfere? If the UK makes a democratic choice in accordance with its democratic arrangements to leave the EU, why should we interfere in their affairs?

Yes, we should look after our own interests and protect them in concert with our partners, but if the UK wants to jump off a cliff, it is not our responsibility to bail any of them out.

What?

Are you like Dominic Raab and have not read the GFA and the committments and responsibilities therein? We are mandated to 'interfere' on behalf of those who see themselves as Irish.

You cannot ignore them blanch.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

Are you like Dominic Raab and have not read the GFA and the committments and responsibilities therein? We are mandated to 'interfere' on behalf of those who see themselves as Irish.

You cannot ignore them blanch.

Go on, show me the relevant extracts from the GFA.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

I would be very interested in those links.

I have previously compared things like unemployment benefit and child benefit and the rates in the South have been far higher than in the North and that there will be a huge cost in harmonising social welfare. If you have evidence that the rates are better in the North, please show them.

I didn’t say rates were better in the north? Their about half of that here as far as I recall?

Don’t know if this will work so illl post link twice


https://www-ft-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2F6284a8bc-f3ee-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9d0d?source=google-amp&fit=scale-down&width=500



‘Over the years, the dependent nature of Northern Ireland’s economy has become endemic, with handouts from London replacing the urge to pay for itself. More subsidies have made the Northern economy more, not less, fragile. Economic supplicants rarely stand on their own two feet. If the North had to pay for itself now, its budget deficit would be about 27 per cent of its GDP.

The UK’s annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure — but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic’s GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic’s economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.’



https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/7d5244a0-f22d-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9d0d

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Go on, show me the relevant extracts from the GFA.

Read the commitments the British and Irish Government signed up to in the WA which are directly taken from their committments in the GFA.

WA wrote:

The people of Northern Ireland who are Irish citizens will continue to enjoy rights as EU citizens, including where they reside in Northern Ireland. Both Parties therefore agree that the Withdrawal Agreement should respect and be without prejudice to the rights, opportunities and identity that come with European Union citizenship for such people and, in the next phase of negotiations, will examine arrangements required to give effect to the ongoing exercise of, and access to, their EU rights, opportunities and benefits

TEFU wrote:

Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union

It is vital that the Irish Government 'intefere' to see to it that commitments made in the GFA are upheld. So far that has been done in negotiating the WA.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Blanch I suggest you look up the Emma de Souza case to see how th British home office is trying to steamroll the GFA and strip anyone in NI of the right to claim Irish identity and forcing all to be British.

She took a case against Them and won. They’re appealing

janfebmar

ittakestwo wrote: »

For people in the middle up the north. Economics will be a huge influence. Would they feel better of if the north was in the UK or part of Ireland within the EU.

Also can the south afford the north? AFAIK the North runs a considerable deficit with the UK but because it makes up about 3% of the UK it's easy for it to be diluted. However if Ireland was united the North would make up about 30% of the country. Also public wages and social welfare is far higher in the south. So presumably public sectors pay and social welfare would have to be relined with the souths which would make their deficit and burden even higher.

Make the defit and burden even higher? ....it would be interesting to see how much the burden would increase to. Perhaps, at a guess an additional 7.5 billion euro per year compared to what NI currently costs the UK .

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

ittakestwo wrote: »

For people in the middle up the north. Economics will be a huge influence. Would they feel better of if the north was in the UK or part of Ireland within the EU.

Also can the south afford the north? AFAIK the North runs a considerable deficit with the UK but because it makes up about 3% of the UK it's easy for it to be diluted. However if Ireland was united the North would make up about 30% of the country. Also public wages and social welfare is far higher in the south. So presumably public sectors pay and social welfare would have to be relined with the souths which would make their deficit and burden even higher.

Make the defit and burden even higher? ....it would be interesting to see how much the burden would increase to. Perhaps, at a guess an additional 7.5 billion euro per year compared to what NI currently costs the UK .

Ah yes, the old school of, 'totally making numbers up with no basis whatsoever'.

I reckon the North will cost twenty seven euro and forty cent a year on the deficit....at a guess, because feelings! About as useful as your, 'estimate'.