How long before Irish reunification?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely, which is why I am most critical of the British government actually. They should never have been here in the first place. Our violent society stems from that.

Would you agree?

No, Michael Collins signed a Treaty on behalf of the State, and that should have been the end of it when it comes to violence.

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You’re suggesting we build massive walls around Their areas and imprison them? The Israel model with Palestine? I wouldn’t be forcing anyone to stay. Or to leave. That’s not how a free country works.

You have some warped mind there Jan

No, it is Francie who is proposing that the Government set up "resettlement" grants, so that like in Zimbabwe, men in balaclavas can go knock on your door and tell you it would be a good idea for you to accept the Government's offer.

It is a very insidious and nasty version of ethnic cleansing that he has dreamt up.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Who is the party responsible for withholding a section of our country and using armed force to maintain the status quo for unionists over and above the rest of society in that portion of Ulster?

It is no longer "our" country. We renounced the territorial claim when we amended Articles 2 and 3. We now want to united the peoples of this island rather than the territory of this island.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

No, it is Francie who is proposing that the Government set up "resettlement" grants, so that like in Zimbabwe, men in balaclavas can go knock on your door and tell you it would be a good idea for you to accept the Government's offer.

It is a very insidious and nasty version of ethnic cleansing that he has dreamt up.

Following this thread closely and nobody not one poster ever said or suggested that except yourself and Jan.
Repeatedly actually.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

* can you tell me which government the British or Irish government that will be dispatching people in balaclavas to go door to door to carry out what you’re suggesting?


You’ve got a very fuc*d up mind there blanch. That’s actually sickening that you’re suggesting this.
Or accusing anyone of saying it when they haven’t ever

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

No, Michael Collins signed a Treaty on behalf of the State, and that should have been the end of it when it comes to violence.

But it wasn't, was it?
Why? Because Collins made the mistake of trusting that the British would oversee a proper democratic state that protected it's minority.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I condemn violence and always have.

But you refuse to condemn the pIRA. The "Brits" and loyalists were the ones who used violence according to you.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

But you refuse to condemn the pIRA. The "Brits" and loyalists were the ones who used violence according to you.

The ira and their formation and every atrocity they carried out is entirely the fault and responsibility of the British and their army. But you know this.

I condemn both by the way. But the British own it.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

But you refuse to condemn the pIRA.

Please deconstruct my repeated statements - 'I condemn all the violence' 'It was ALL wrong' and show how that can mean this?

'The "Brits" and loyalists were the ones who used violence according to you'.

You are making a fool of yourself, yet again.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Look at that. The British government ending free movement on October 31st and forcing foreigners in their country to leave.

So here’s blanch accusing Ireland of something it hasn’t actually and would never do, while ignoring her idols the brits doing the very thing she’s accusing us of.

In 2019

Will they be rounded up by men in balaclavas I wonder

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/threat-to-end-freedom-of-movement-overnight-reckless-say-eu-citizens

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But it wasn't, was it?
Why? Because Collins made the mistake of trusting that the British would oversee a proper democratic state that protected it's minority.

Whether it was or wasn't isn't the point. The point is that there was no reason for violence afterwards. The civil rights movement, Sunningdale etc. were all peaceful enough progressions towards a better society in the North, all stymied by the men of violence.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Whether it was or wasn't isn't the point. The point is that there was no reason for violence afterwards. The civil rights movement, Sunningdale etc. were all peaceful enough progressions towards a better society in the North, all stymied by the men of violence.

According to you.

There was nothing 'peaceful' non violent about either the Civil Rights Movement nor Sunningdale...did you miss/ignore the violence used to oppose them too?

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Look at that. The British government ending free movement on October 31st and forcing foreigners in their country to leave.

So here’s blanch accusing Ireland of something it hasn’t actually and would never do, while ignoring her idols the brits doing the very thing she’s accusing us of.

In 2019

Will they be rounded up by men in balaclavas I wonder

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/threat-to-end-freedom-of-movement-overnight-reckless-say-eu-citizens

Francie is the one who is proposing these resettlement grants.

We know from the history of Zimbabwe what happens next. The Government doesn't have to do anything. The men of violence will knock on the doors and enforce the taking of the grants. The proposers will wring their hands and say that they were never advocating force or anything other than a voluntary scheme. They will probably condemn the violence as well, but the damage will have been done by the insidious nature of the original proposal.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will say this one more time. I said that I would be willing to help those 18% who say 'they could not live in a UI', by making available grants if they wanted to leave or resettle. Which is not 'deportation'.
If you infer that I was advocating force or anything other than a voluntary scheme, you are lying.

I condemn violence and always have. I have also said it 'was ALL wrong', repeatedly in answer to you specifically.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to you.

There was nothing 'peaceful' non violent about either the Civil Rights Movement nor Sunningdale...did you miss/ignore the violence used to oppose them too?

So you don't agree with me when I say that we can all agree that there has absolutely never been any place for men or women of violence in our societies since the foundation of the State. Glad we have cleared that one up.

blanch152 wrote: »

I think that we can all agree that there has absolutely never been any place for men or women of violence in our societies since the foundation of the State.

Can't we?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Francie is the one who is proposing these resettlement grants.

We know from the history of Zimbabwe what happens next. The Government doesn't have to do anything. The men of violence will knock on the doors and enforce the taking of the grants. The proposers will wring their hands and say that they were never advocating force or anything other than a voluntary scheme. They will probably condemn the violence as well, but the damage will have been done by the insidious nature of the original proposal.

Can you outline for me how Zimbabwe is Amy was the same as Britain or Ireland?

You’re making a disgusting warped false equivalence. I’d expect more from you usually

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So you don't agree with me when I say that we can all agree that there has absolutely never been any place for men or women of violence in our societies since the foundation of the State. Glad we have cleared that one up.

I do agree with that statement. But that was not enough to stop or deter the violence as the Civil Rights Movement found out.

The 'lie down croppy boy' until the British eventually get around to being democrats option advocated by partitionists was sadly and tragically not available.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Please deconstruct my repeated statements - 'I condemn all the violence' 'It was ALL wrong' and show how that can mean this?

'The "Brits" and loyalists were the ones who used violence according to you'.

You are making a fool of yourself, yet again.

We have been through this before. The reason you refused to condemn the pIRA was because they were volunteers carrying out military action, or some such terminology. They did not use violence according to you.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I do agree with that statement. But that was not enough to stop or deter the violence as the Civil Rights Movement found out.

Or indeed the border campaign of the 1956 -62 period, when a double digit amount of deaths were caused by the IRA armed struggle then.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

We have been through this before. The reason you refused to condemn the pIRA was because they were volunteers carrying out military action, or some such terminology. They did not use violence according to you.

Well the absurdity that I suggested 'the IRA didn't use violence' is your own weird interpretation of something I said. So I cannot help you there.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Blanch, you know I think Francie's resettlement grant idea is a bad idea, but it's pretty weak not only to extrapolate that to Zimbabwe, but to do so in a way which implies that's what Francie was calling for.....that's just dishonest debate to get a dig at him.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Blanch, you know I think Francie's resettlement grant idea is a bad idea, but it's pretty weak not only to extrapolate that to Zimbabwe, but to do so in a way which implies that's what Francie was calling for.....that's just dishonest debate to get a dig at him.

** while also ignoring British are forcing foreigners to leave come October 31st

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Or indeed the border campaign of the 1956 -62 period, when a double digit amount of deaths were caused by the IRA armed struggle then.

What is your point here. The IRA existed in opposition to the British presence here, there was never any ambiguity about them.
You only have to look at how they armed themselves (by raiding BA military bases in Ireland) to see why that happened. :rolleyes:

James Brown

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

No, it is Francie who is proposing that the Government set up "resettlement" grants, so that like in Zimbabwe, men in balaclavas can go knock on your door and tell you it would be a good idea for you to accept the Government's offer.

It is a very insidious and nasty version of ethnic cleansing that he has dreamt up.

No he didn't. You are spinning yarns. I'd say ironic coming from Mr. Decent debate, but hey, it's par for the course with you. You are being dishonest here.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is no longer "our" country. We renounced the territorial claim when we amended Articles 2 and 3. We now want to united the peoples of this island rather than the territory of this island.

Comrade, It's Ireland, always was, always will be, but under British rule currently. Tiocfaidh Ar La and what not.

Dog Man Star

The new version of the IRA will rise against this far-right British rule of Northern Ireland. The new IRA murdered Lyra McKee last April.

With an expected 30,000 newly unemployed in Northern Ireland post Brexit, and Johnson shutting down Parliament to ensure no backstop, there are bleak times ahead.

This is the new PM of the UK on Leo Varadkar: “Why isn’t he called Murphy like all the rest of them.” Johnson cares nothing for Northern Ireland.

Dark, dark days ahead. A new border and a return to violence is certain.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

I thought it was a bullet richochet off a van killed Lyra?

Crock Rock

10-15 years

As soon an possible with the help of God.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Blanch, you know I think Francie's resettlement grant idea is a bad idea, but it's pretty weak not only to extrapolate that to Zimbabwe, but to do so in a way which implies that's what Francie was calling for.....that's just dishonest debate to get a dig at him.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No he didn't. You are spinning yarns. I'd say ironic coming from Mr. Decent debate, but hey, it's par for the course with you. You are being dishonest here.

Apologies to Francie in that I didn't mean to imply that he was deliberately proposing the resettlement grants in order to create the conditions for the men in balaclavas.

However, I am in no doubt that such knocks on the door will be an inevitable result of such a proposal, whether that be farms in Fermanagh or houses in West Belfast. If Francie thinks further about what he is proposing, he should be able to see the inherent dangers in such a proposal and the atmosphere it will create of a community under threat.

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I thought it was a bullet richochet off a van killed Lyra?

Yup, it was a bullet that miraculously appeared from the sky, fired in no direction in particular, in fact maybe not even fired, just tossed in the air, by someone unknown who could even have been a little green man for all we know.

Yup, that's it. Avoid personal responsibility, excuse the men of violence, sure they only meant to kill the public servants.

James Brown

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Apologies to Francie in that I didn't mean to imply that he was deliberately proposing the resettlement grants in order to create the conditions for the men in balaclavas.

However, I am in no doubt that such knocks on the door will be an inevitable result of such a proposal, whether that be farms in Fermanagh or houses in West Belfast. If Francie thinks further about what he is proposing, he should be able to see the inherent dangers in such a proposal and the atmosphere it will create of a community under threat.

TBF anyone so inclined would do that with or without such an offer. Didn't they use to burn people out?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF anyone so inclined would do that with or without such an offer. Didn't they use to burn people out?

It would be given added context and apparent approval.