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How long before Irish reunification?

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  • Options
    #3842
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The rules appear to allow for the PM to instruct the monarch to suspend the entire parliament in advance of a new session.

    Similarly, the rules allow for the Taoiseach to go to the President and dissolve the Oireachtas, even if the Oireachtas don't want it to.

    The courts may rule differently in Johnson's case but I find it hard to see how.

    We have had numerous motions passed in the last three years in the Dail which have been subsequently ignored by the FG/Ind government. Is that democracy?

    Both the Taoiseach and our President are elected by the people.

    Who elected this 'monarch' again? The people?


  • Options
    #3843
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Is it an ongoing process? Have we failed to implement it?

    The point is, referendums in the UK are advisory. The people do not legally have a say as Binding seems to think.
    Parliament is not truly and fully 'sovereign' either as the last week has shown.
    Except that the Prime Minister at the referendum and the following Prime Minister plus this Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition said that the result of the referendum would be respected . Plus 83% voted for parties at the last general election that said they would respect the referendum result .

    How many democratic wins does Brexit need ?


  • Options
    #3844
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Both the Taoiseach and our President are elected by the people.

    Who elected this 'monarch' again? The people?
    Just get a referendum passed to get rid of the monarchy . 50% + 1 will do . You will not even need 52% .


  • Options
    #3845
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blinding wrote: »
    Just get a referendum passed to get rid of the monarchy . 50% + 1 will do . You will not even need 52% .

    It wouldn't be binding blinding!


  • Options
    #3846
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blinding wrote: »
    Except that the Prime Minister at the referendum and the following Prime Minister plus this Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition said that the result of the referendum would be respected . Plus 83% voted for parties at the last general election that said they would respect the referendum result .

    Well they know what to do then, next time out. Other than that they have no say.
    How many democratic wins does Brexit need ?

    Don't ask me, it isn't my system that is in chaos and fooked.


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    #3847
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Is it an ongoing process? Have we failed to implement it?

    The point is, referendums in the UK are advisory. The people do not legally have a say as Binding seems to think.
    Parliament is not truly and fully 'sovereign' either as the last week has shown.


    Yes we have failed to implement it under successive governments since 1979. Imagine if 40 years later, the UK was still waiting on Brexit? That is the equivalent.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ireland has NEVER failed to implement the result of a referendum.

    The point isn't about referendums being advisory. The point is you once again made a blatantly untrue statement, this time shouting it with capitals, and when it is pointed out, try to move the goalposts.


  • Options
    #3848
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Both the Taoiseach and our President are elected by the people.

    Who elected this 'monarch' again? The people?

    Wrong again.

    The Taoiseach is not elected by the people, he is elected by the Parliament. There is a difference.


  • Options
    #3849
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    10-15 years
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Wrong again.

    The Taoiseach is not elected by the people, he is elected by the Parliament. There is a difference.

    No more straws left to grasp.

    Go to the really thin one at the end to deflect


  • Options
    #3850
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It wouldn't be binding blinding!
    Funnily enough the British people take the Brexit referendum as binding and that is why Brexit will happen . They are not Irish and will not have their vote dis-respected by the Eu and it apparatchiks .


  • Options
    #3851
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes we have failed to implement it under successive governments since 1979. Imagine if 40 years later, the UK was still waiting on Brexit? That is the equivalent.

    Answer the question please...have we 'failed' to implement it? Is it still in process?

    binding was talking about a situation were the result of the referendum was not implemented.
    Well that would just be tough, because ultimately the people have no legal say...no matter what politicians promise.


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  • Options
    #3852
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Wrong again.

    The Taoiseach is not elected by the people, he is elected by the Parliament. There is a difference.

    :confused: You are getting worse than janfebmar.


  • Options
    #3853
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blinding wrote: »
    Funnily enough the British people take the Brexit referendum as binding and that is why Brexit will happen . They are not Irish and will not have their vote dis-respected by the Eu and it apparatchiks .

    The can take it with salt and vinegar for all the difference it makes.


  • Options
    #3854
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    blinding wrote: »
    The monarch was instructed / advised by the Prime Minister .

    Could Leo do the same if he so chose with the Irish President ?

    Essentially, yes. We don't have the same provision, but we don't have the Fixed Term Parliament Act. The Taoiseach can go to the President and advise him to dissolve the Dail.

    Like the Queen, the President can take the advice or not, but rarely turns it down.


  • Options
    #3855
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Answer the question please...have we 'failed' to implement it? Is it still in process?

    binding was talking about a situation were the result of the referendum was not implemented.
    Well that would just be tough, because ultimately the people have no legal say...no matter what politicians promise.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Ireland has NEVER failed to implement the result of a referendum.

    Nothing to do with whatever binding said, not getting involved in your argument with him.

    Only pointing out that your statement is false and untrue, and that you are failing to withdraw it or correct it.

    Twelve successive Oireachtas have failed to implement the Seventh Amendment. That is fact.


  • Options
    #3856
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    No more straws left to grasp.

    Go to the really thin one at the end to deflect

    Francie said that the Taoiseach is elected by the people.

    That is clearly untrue, he is elected by the Dail.

    Leo Varadkar was never elected Taoiseach by the people, neither were Brian Cowen and John Bruton. Charlie Haughey wasn't elected by the people the first time. The list goes on and on, but one thing is clear, the Dail elects the Taoiseach, not the people.


  • Options
    #3857
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    10-15 years
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Francie said that the Taoiseach is elected by the people.

    That is clearly untrue, he is elected by the Dail.

    Leo Varadkar was never elected Taoiseach by the people, neither were Brian Cowen and John Bruton. Charlie Haughey wasn't elected by the people the first time. The list goes on and on, but one thing is clear, the Dail elects the Taoiseach, not the people.

    You’re grasping at the very thinnest of straws.


  • Options
    #3858
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Francie said that the Taoiseach is elected by the people.

    That is clearly untrue, he is elected by the Dail.

    Leo Varadkar was never elected Taoiseach by the people, neither were Brian Cowen and John Bruton. Charlie Haughey wasn't elected by the people the first time. The list goes on and on, but one thing is clear, the Dail elects the Taoiseach, not the people.

    Show me a Taoiseach that was not elected to the Dáil by the people. We understand that our Taoiseach will be chosen from the members of the Dáil...who are elected.

    Our President is also elected, unlike a hereditary monarch.


  • Options
    #3859
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Show me a Taoiseach that was not elected to the Dáil by the people. We understand that our Taoiseach will be chosen from the members of the Dáil...who are elected.

    Our President is also elected, unlike a hereditary monarch.

    Again, not completely true that our President is also elected.

    Fourteen times we have selected a President.

    On three of those occasions, the President nominated themselves and they were unopposed. On a fourth, the President nominated himself and convincingly beat the rabble of other candidates. On another two occasions, only one person was nominated. Three other occasions only saw two candidates, one elected, one an also-ran.

    It isn't a stretch to say that only on five out of fourteen occasions have we seen a genuinely competitive election for President.

    Thems are the facts, Francie.




    P.S. Keep going with the fantasy that Leo was elected by the people. He wasn't even leader of FG at the last election. And he didn't even win the popular vote of his own party.


  • Options
    #3860
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    You’re grasping at the very thinnest of straws.

    The thinnest of straws with numerous examples? Get off the stage.


  • Options
    #3861
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Again, not completely true that our President is also elected.

    Fourteen times we have selected a President.

    On three of those occasions, the President nominated themselves and they were unopposed. On a fourth, the President nominated himself and convincingly beat the rabble of other candidates. On another two occasions, only one person was nominated. Three other occasions only saw two candidates, one elected, one an also-ran.

    It isn't a stretch to say that only on five out of fourteen occasions have we seen a genuinely competitive election for President.

    Thems are the facts, Francie.




    P.S. Keep going with the fantasy that Leo was elected by the people. He wasn't even leader of FG at the last election. And he didn't even win the popular vote of his own party.



    Was any of that ^ unconstitutional?
    i.e. Where the people conned that they had a say when they had no say?

    Where the people and parliament of the UK led to believe that parliament was sovereign and as this week shows, it isn't in fact?
    That is what binding was talking about.
    Experts knew...but the people have been woken up, hopefully.


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    #3862
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭trashcan


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Imagine if 40 years later, the UK was still waiting on Brexit?

    Wouldn't rule that out tbh ;)


  • Options
    #3863
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Answer the question please...have we 'failed' to implement it? Is it still in process?

    binding was talking about a situation were the result of the referendum was not implemented.
    Well that would just be tough, because ultimately the people have no legal say...no matter what politicians promise.
    I’d say you’d be well dodgy with the auld democracy given half a chance :eek:

    Are you old Blue-Shirt Fine Gael Stock ?:eek:


  • Options
    #3864
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Again, not completely true that our President is also elected.

    Fourteen times we have selected a President.

    On three of those occasions, the President nominated themselves and they were unopposed. On a fourth, the President nominated himself and convincingly beat the rabble of other candidates. On another two occasions, only one person was nominated. Three other occasions only saw two candidates, one elected, one an also-ran.

    It isn't a stretch to say that only on five out of fourteen occasions have we seen a genuinely competitive election for President.

    Thems are the facts, Francie.




    P.S. Keep going with the fantasy that Leo was elected by the people. He wasn't even leader of FG at the last election. And he didn't even win the popular vote of his own party.
    For some reason Fine Gael were not keen to let Leo face the Fine Gael party membership:eek::eek:


  • Options
    #3865
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    10-15 years
    I posted an Irish Times podcast earlier with an interview with a professor who has actual qualifications on Northern Ireland and how unification is coming

    Challenge any one of you to listen and come back refuting any of his points.

    You won’t but try.

    You’re grasping at straws about sniping on little points of irrelevance in the past and missing and blind to
    What
    Is
    Coming.

    Good luck with that.


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    #3866
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    10-15 years
    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    I posted an Irish Times podcast earlier with an interview with a professor who has actual qualifications on Northern Ireland and how unification is coming

    Challenge any one of you to listen and come back refuting any of his points.

    You won’t but try.

    You’re grasping at straws about sniping on little points of irrelevance in the past and missing and blind to
    What
    Is
    Coming.

    Good luck with that.
    Most Big Island Brits will be dancing in the street when they ‘ lose ‘ the 6 counties . If its because of Brexit then Brexit only gets better and better and better:D:D:D


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    #3867
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    I posted an Irish Times podcast earlier with an interview with a professor who has actual qualifications on Northern Ireland ..

    That you man from America, sure what would he know about Northern Ireland, besides marching behind Mary Lou with her "England get out of Ireland" banner? Some Irish-Americans even believe the propaganda you get on websites like the Bobby Sands one about Britain operating "Concentration camps" in N. Ireland.
    "actual qualifications on Northern Ireland" lol. Maybe he should get actual qualifications on white mans settlement of N America.


  • Options
    #3868
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    That you man from America, sure what would he know about Northern Ireland, besides marching behind Mary Lou with her "England get out of Ireland" banner? Some Irish-Americans even believe the propaganda you get on websites like the Bobby Sands one about Britain operating "Concentration camps" in N. Ireland.
    "actual qualifications on Northern Ireland" lol. Maybe he should get actual qualifications on white mans settlement of N America.

    Definition of concentration camp
    : a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard.


  • Options
    #3869
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Full Definition of concentration camp:

    "a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labour or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz."


  • Options
    #3870
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,257 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Full Definition of concentration camp:

    "a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labour

    Same as the H-Blocks so.


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    #3871
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Same as the H-Blocks so.

    At least the IRA prisoners were not executed there : perhaps that makes the places (prisons) in the free state officially "extermination camps", as they were worse than "concentration camps"?

    On a more serious note, no wonder certain quarters in Jewish America despise the Irish Americans for referring to H-block as a concentration camp ; it is a massive insult to the millions who died in what is commonly known as the concentration camps in Nazi occupied Europe, of all nationalities.


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