How long before Irish reunification?

RobMc59

10-15 years

Deleted User wrote: »

The British Home Office appeal in the very important Emma de Souza case has just opened in court today. Both her side and the British Home Office are presenting their case via videolink to two judges sitting over in Britain, interestingly enough.

'People born in NI remain British citizens', Emma De Souza court hears

A lawyer for the home secretary has said people born in Northern Ireland remain British citizens according to the law, even if they identify as Irish.

NI woman Emma De Souza won a case against the Home Office after it deemed she was British when her US-born husband applied for a residence card.

The Home Office has appealed the decision.

The Good Friday Agreement allows people to be British, Irish or both.

On Tuesday, lawyers representing the Home Office and Ms De Souza in Belfast put forward opposing arguments by video link to two judges sitting in London.

Anyone born in Northern Ireland has the right to identify as Irish or British or both, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement, signed in April 1998 by the British and Irish governments and Northern Ireland's political parties.

Ms De Souza applied for a residence card for her US-born husband in December 2015, making the application under her Irish passport.

However, the Home Office rejected the application as it deemed Ms De Souza was British, even though she says that she never held a British passport.

They requested that Ms De Souza either reapply as a British citizen or renounce her British citizenship to apply as an Irish citizen.

But she challenged the decision, citing the Good Friday Agreement's terms that assert her ability to identify as Irish, British or both....

The highlighted part seems quite a brazen claim by the British Home Secretary, amounting to a simple "You can identify as whatever you want but if you're born in the part of Ireland that's still under British occupation, you're British. End of story."

By that unbridled imperialist logic, all the Irish people were "British" when the British boot had all the Irish faoi chois for centuries until 6 December 1922. It takes a quintessentially imperialist mindset to dismiss the rights of the natives like this and impose Britishness upon them in Ireland.

Delighted that Varadkar has had the guts to come out clearly in favour of Emma de Souza in this very important case:

Leo Varadkar says UK government 'wrong' on Emma De Souza case

This is incredibly petty by Britain
and the perception of high handedness sums up this abysmal tory government.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

The British Home Office appeal in the very important Emma de Souza case has just opened in court today. Both her side and the British Home Office are presenting their case via videolink to two judges sitting over in Britain, interestingly enough.

'People born in NI remain British citizens', Emma De Souza court hears

A lawyer for the home secretary has said people born in Northern Ireland remain British citizens according to the law, even if they identify as Irish.

NI woman Emma De Souza won a case against the Home Office after it deemed she was British when her US-born husband applied for a residence card.

The Home Office has appealed the decision.

The Good Friday Agreement allows people to be British, Irish or both.

On Tuesday, lawyers representing the Home Office and Ms De Souza in Belfast put forward opposing arguments by video link to two judges sitting in London.

Anyone born in Northern Ireland has the right to identify as Irish or British or both, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement, signed in April 1998 by the British and Irish governments and Northern Ireland's political parties.

Ms De Souza applied for a residence card for her US-born husband in December 2015, making the application under her Irish passport.

However, the Home Office rejected the application as it deemed Ms De Souza was British, even though she says that she never held a British passport.

They requested that Ms De Souza either reapply as a British citizen or renounce her British citizenship to apply as an Irish citizen.

But she challenged the decision, citing the Good Friday Agreement's terms that assert her ability to identify as Irish, British or both....

The highlighted part seems quite a brazen claim by the British Home Secretary, amounting to a simple "You can identify as whatever you want but if you're born in the part of Ireland that's still under British occupation, you're British. End of story."

By that unbridled imperialist logic, all the Irish people were "British" when the British boot had all the Irish faoi chois for centuries until 6 December 1922. It takes a quintessentially imperialist mindset to dismiss the rights of the natives like this and impose Britishness upon them in Ireland.

Delighted that Varadkar has had the guts to come out clearly in favour of Emma de Souza in this very important case:

Leo Varadkar says UK government 'wrong' on Emma De Souza case

This is incredibly petty by Britain
and the perception of high handedness sums up this abysmal tory government.

Good on you, Rob. We'll have you singing, 'The Men Behind the Wire" yet!

Screw Attack

The real question is; does anyone care?

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Screw Attack wrote: »

The real question is; does anyone care?

Given it has led to over 4000 posts here, I'd say yes.

Screw Attack

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Given it has led to over 4000 posts here, I'd say yes.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound snarky, it was off the cuff. History and s hit you know.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

The British Home Office appeal in the very important Emma de Souza case has just opened in court today. Both her side and the British Home Office are presenting their case via videolink to two judges sitting over in Britain, interestingly enough.

'People born in NI remain British citizens', Emma De Souza court hears

A lawyer for the home secretary has said people born in Northern Ireland remain British citizens according to the law, even if they identify as Irish.

NI woman Emma De Souza won a case against the Home Office after it deemed she was British when her US-born husband applied for a residence card.

The Home Office has appealed the decision.

The Good Friday Agreement allows people to be British, Irish or both.

On Tuesday, lawyers representing the Home Office and Ms De Souza in Belfast put forward opposing arguments by video link to two judges sitting in London.

Anyone born in Northern Ireland has the right to identify as Irish or British or both, thanks to the Good Friday Agreement, signed in April 1998 by the British and Irish governments and Northern Ireland's political parties.

Ms De Souza applied for a residence card for her US-born husband in December 2015, making the application under her Irish passport.

However, the Home Office rejected the application as it deemed Ms De Souza was British, even though she says that she never held a British passport.

They requested that Ms De Souza either reapply as a British citizen or renounce her British citizenship to apply as an Irish citizen.

But she challenged the decision, citing the Good Friday Agreement's terms that assert her ability to identify as Irish, British or both....

The highlighted part seems quite a brazen claim by the British Home Secretary, amounting to a simple "You can identify as whatever you want but if you're born in the part of Ireland that's still under British occupation, you're British. End of story."

By that unbridled imperialist logic, all the Irish people were "British" when the British boot had all the Irish faoi chois for centuries until 6 December 1922. It takes a quintessentially imperialist mindset to dismiss the rights of the natives like this and impose Britishness upon them in Ireland.

Delighted that Varadkar has had the guts to come out clearly in favour of Emma de Souza in this very important case:

Leo Varadkar says UK government 'wrong' on Emma De Souza case

This is incredibly petty by Britain
and the perception of high handedness sums up this abysmal tory government.

Good on you, Rob. We'll have you singing, 'The Men Behind the Wire" yet!

It's a poor way to treat people,I don't see it as an Ireland v Britain thing.Unfortunately,this along with the windrush debacle(amongst others)doesn't put Britain in a good light.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a poor way to treat people,I don't see it as an Ireland v Britain thing.Unfortunately,this along with the windrush debacle(amongst others)doesn't put Britain in a good light.

How is it not an Ireland v Britain thing?

Britain is fighting this case tooth and nail. You'd have to wonder is it one of the dividends of having a measure of control over the governing party, for the DUP.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a poor way to treat people,I don't see it as an Ireland v Britain thing.Unfortunately,this along with the windrush debacle(amongst others)doesn't put Britain in a good light.

How is it not an Ireland v Britain thing?

Britain is fighting this case tooth and nail. You'd have to wonder is it one of the dividends of having a measure of control over the governing party, for the DUP.

I see the treatment of the windrush generation,Gurkhas, interpretors in the middle east and this situation in NI as being more about Britain's drift towards an uncaring,right wing cronie of the US rather than it having a pop at Ireland.

munsterlegend

The fact these polls are even close without any proper discussion/proposal on what shape a united Ireland would take is interesting.

https://www.thejournal.ie/lord-ashcroft-irish-unification-poll-4804372-Sep2019/

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I see the treatment of the windrush generation,Gurkhas, interpretors in the middle east and this situation in NI as being more about Britain's drift towards an uncaring,right wing cronie of the US rather than it having a pop at Ireland.

Drift?

People in NI have been told they are 'British' for almost a 100 years. :rolleyes:

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

I see the treatment of the windrush generation,Gurkhas, interpretors in the middle east and this situation in NI as being more about Britain's drift towards an uncaring,right wing cronie of the US rather than it having a pop at Ireland.

Drift?

People in NI have been told they are 'British' for almost a 100 years. :rolleyes:

If they were born in NI they are British but now have the option to identify as Irish if they wish-which is a good thing.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

If they were born in NI they are British but now have the option to identify as Irish if they wish-which is a good thing.

Yet when it suits their motives, Unionists can present a proposal of theirs and call it 'An Irish Solution To An Irish Problem'.

It's a hypocritical tool of colonisation to legally enforce this on people. A way of saying, 'we own you'. Clear as day, and was always the way, no change there.

Charles Babbage

Ashcroft poll.
All to play for.
The age demographics mean that those in who pass away are 60% pro-union and they are replaced by 60% pro UI. So in 5 years a 1% lead becomes a 3% lead for UI.

facehugger99

Charles Babbage wrote: »

All to play for.
The age demographics mean that those in who pass away are 60% pro-union and they are replaced by 60% pro UI. So in 5 years a 1% lead becomes a 3% lead for UI.

Who cares what the Nordies want?

The taxpayers of the ROI will never agree to pay the eye-watering costs for unification.

We have better things to be spending our hard-earned tax-euros on than propping up an economic basket-case.

Charles Babbage

facehugger99 wrote: »

The taxpayers of the ROI will never agree to pay the eye-watering costs for unification.
.

Yes, they will.


As the German case shows, they'll show little interest before the opportunity arises, they'll celebrate when it does come and whine incessantly about it afterwards.

maccored

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Who cares what the Nordies want?

The taxpayers of the ROI will never agree to pay the eye-watering costs for unification.

We have better things to be spending our hard-earned tax-euros on than propping up an economic basket-case.

the idea that the south will take over the north and just pay the bills is terribly naive.

There has to be a nationwide discussion on a UI long before any of it can happen. when it does, it'll be a case creating a one, overall, united country. not the south plus the north.

facehugger99

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Yes, they will.


As the German case shows, they'll show little interest before the opportunity arises, they'll celebrate when it does come and whine incessantly about it afterwards.

Doubt it.

Once the costs are laid out, as they will have to be in the run up to a referendum, there will be no appetite to fund it.

People will prioritise their Heath, Education SW, and pension spend.

These's barely any great appetite for the idea as a woolly hypothetical, the first mention of a 'Unification Tax' will scupper the idea permanently.

The lads up North will need to find another sugar-daddy if the want out of the UK - maybe they could ask Trump to purchase them?

Ash.J.Williams

facehugger99 wrote: »

Doubt it.

Once the costs are laid out, as they will have to be in the run up to a referendum, there will be no appetite to fund it.

People will prioritise their Heath, Education SW, and pension spend.

These's barely any great appetite for the idea as a woolly hypothetical, the first mention of a 'Unification Tax' will scupper the idea permanently.

The lads up North will need to find another sugar-daddy if the want out of the UK - maybe they could ask Trump to purchase them?

we should reunite the country at all costs

facehugger99

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

we should reunite the country at all costs

Luckily we'd be having a referendum on any decision where you'd be able to get your 'unique' voice heard.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

facehugger99 wrote: »

Doubt it.

Once the costs are laid out, as they will have to be in the run up to a referendum, there will be no appetite to fund it.

People will prioritise their Heath, Education SW, and pension spend.

These's barely any great appetite for the idea as a woolly hypothetical, the first mention of a 'Unification Tax' will scupper the idea permanently.

The lads up North will need to find another sugar-daddy if the want out of the UK - maybe they could ask Trump to purchase them?

we should reunite the country at all costs

Having watched footage of petrol bomb attacks on the PSNI yesterday in Derry who were trying to disarm and remove a bomb,I doubt Irish people would be willing to accept people with that attitude with open arms

maccored

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Having watched footage of petrol bomb attacks on the PSNI yesterday in Derry who were trying to disarm and remove a bomb,I doubt Irish people would be willing to accept people with that attitude with open arms

in a UI we wouldnt have the PSNI so ....

facehugger99

maccored wrote: »

in a UI we wouldnt have the PSNI so ....

we'd be paying to police those scumbags ourselves.


No thanks.

James Brown

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Who cares what the Nordies want?

The taxpayers of the ROI will never agree to pay the eye-watering costs for unification.

We have better things to be spending our hard-earned tax-euros on than propping up an economic basket-case.

This again? You can't put a price on family.

facehugger99

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You can't put a price on family.

Absolutely.

Taxpayers will consider the myriad of negative implications unification will have on their families when deciding to reject any referendum.

One will always prioritise one's family far above some randomers up North that we share little in common with.

briany

Matt Barrett wrote: »

This again? You can't put a price on family.

From watching British politics over the last 3 and a bit years, one thing is evident, and that is that emotional arguments are dangerous ways to inform the direction of your country. So, if one asks what the social and economic advantages of a United Ireland would be, and the answer is that we get to sing, "A Nation Once Again", I'd be worried.

blinding

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Who cares what the Nordies want?

The taxpayers of the ROI will never agree to pay the eye-watering costs for unification.

We have better things to be spending our hard-earned tax-euros on than propping up an economic basket-case.

Photo shoots for Leo :eek::eek:

Charles Babbage

RobMc59 wrote: »

Having watched footage of petrol bomb attacks on the PSNI yesterday in Derry who were trying to disarm and remove a bomb,I doubt Irish people would be willing to accept people with that attitude with open arms

When the British occupied their districts people in the 26 counties threw all sorts of things at them.

theguzman

15-20 years

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

we should reunite the country at all costs

Exactly, reunite it and deal with the consequences later, we would have plenty money to fund the status quo if Fianna Fail had not set out to deliberately bankrupt the Irish state so that their property developers and landlord cronies could be bailed out.

There could be alot of savings also from a United Ireland, Health, Education and Welfare are always mentioned about how they should be priorities, the HSE is a cancerous tumour on Irish society which shoulf be got rid of, the Privatisation of Healthcare is the only thing that will solve this mess. Let taxoayer funded minimum insurance and obligatory tops ups in relation to wealth cover this. Take Healthcare out of Public management whilst retaining land and infrastrucutre ownership. Let the private sector manage it and keep the Unions out of it, pass a referendum banning Unions from Healthcare if required. Education has more than enough money as it is and Welfare spend will be another carrot for Northern Ireland, imagine your in the older Unionist demograph and your facing into a £129 per week pension but in the Republic you could get over €250 and I would argue increasing the welfare rates for the 6 counties over a 30 year period to allow for transition and harmonisation. Effectively bribe the Loyalist voters to join a United Ireland.

We squander the vast majority of taxation and there is pittance invested into real infrastrucutre to grow the economy such as a National Motorway and High Speed Rail network. Every county in the 32 should be no less than 2 hours by rail from Dublin and each county should have a Motorway connection with inter city Motorways also. The National Broadband Fibre plan also. Dumping billions into Health care is a disgrace when you'd get batter value to burn it because the Unions have the life strangled out of Health.

FrancieBrady

Charles Babbage wrote: »

When the British occupied their districts people in the 26 counties threw all sorts of things at them.

And once removed, those districts returned to normal functioning communities.

I.E. People aren't born wanting conflict or being susceptible to it. We are all products of whatever environments we are born into.

maccored

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

we'd be paying to police those scumbags ourselves.


No thanks.

i see you still dont get it.