How long before Irish reunification?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Sectarianism in the northern statelet is a consequence of partition not the other way round - some of you have a child-like relationship with historic sequencing.

Also, you guys thinking a rejection of a UI in the south won't cause massive problems here are fooling yourselves - it wasn't long ago there was a bitter civil war here over the northern question - you better prepare yourselves to own the consequences of your views.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You really have a way of inventing things that people didn't say. Here are all my posts today on the subject of education in the North.













The essence of my proposal is in bold - to remove religious organisations from the patronage, governance and management of schools in Northern Ireland.

Somehow, that secularisation, that removal of the malign influence of religion, is one of a number of "fascistic diktats" that I have proposed. It is a measure that affects organisations - schools and religious orders - but not people. It is a measure less stringent that what was done in the American South and in South Africa to deal with the similarly entrenched prejudices in those countries. It is a relatively mild proposal, yet rather than consider the merit, the retreat into defensive mode takes over.

Take a serious look at yourself Francie, and consider how you have responded and the nature of your responses before you make a complete fool of yourself. I have said it already - anyone defending religious controlled schools in the North, is, in my opinion, a proponent of the maintenance of a sectarian divide.

What was I saying about the high moral grounders??? You are some piece of work. An inveterate liar and manipulator of words.

Here is what you said about somebody who proposed 'investment in 'choice' from the very start of this conversation and who said it again when another poster blurted out his real feelings.

facehugger wrote:

'Nope, fcuk them.

You force them ....

Here is what blanch said, blanch who is now trying to appear to be a 'moderate'

blanch wrote:

It is clear now Francie that you prefer segregation, you prefer a society divided along religious lines, and you prefer sectarianism, so long as your side, in the form of a united Ireland, has the upper hand. That is not a united Ireland that I can subscribe to, and neither can most.

Absolute low level lie and impossible to debate with.

This from the guy who fought tooth and nail on other threads against any censure or reform of the Orange Order as well.:rolleyes:

You want to 'force' your will and education policy on people and to hell with the consequences of that. With total disregard to the history of the place as well. What utter irresponsible drivel frankly.

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Also, you guys thinking a rejection of a UI in the south won't cause massive problems here are fooling yourselves - it wasn't long ago there was a bitter civil war here over the northern question - you better prepare yourselves to own the consequences of your views.

What a stunningly original point you haven't made dozens of times before in the thread

Oh, wait.....

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A rejection of a UI would be an effective call for a new 26 county separatist country and, oh boy, what a can of worms that would open up.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The consequences of a rejection of a UI could cause a severe schism in the irish nation.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

if a UI is rejected in the south then it.......

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You seem to think that there will be no consequences in the South if unification is rejected.

Look out lads, we better vote for unification or Tom says there'll be consequences..

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Absolute low level lie and impossible to debate with.

I've always came away with the same opinion of you as that man. You seem to have the nationalist only viewpoint.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Look out lads, we better vote for unification or Tom says there'll be consequences..

You don't have to vote for Unification at all but those who reject it will have to own it.

People like you, Blanch, southern unionists, pro-partition, whatever way you'd describe yourselves, will have to come up with, and sell, a vision for a separatist state because that's not what this one was built on.

Good luck with that.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

You don't have to vote for Unification at all but those who reject it will have to own it.

If we vote against it you say there'll be troubles, if we vote against it what are the unionists going to do? Likely cause trouble in the south?
Either way we are screwed then.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I've always came away with the same opinion of you as that man. You seem to have the nationalist only viewpoint.

I do not lie nor misrepresent what others say.

Blanch wants to 'remove' religious control of schools without any regard for what the people want.

That is a 'diktat' no matter what way you want to dress it up.

I want investment in 'choice'. Give the people the choice and let change come naturally as it coming here, in what was too, a religiously controlled education system.
That process has not even finished here and he wants to start at ground zero in NI and cannot see any problems accruing from that.

He thinks I favour 'sectarianism' and the continuation of it, because I have that view, that is a shameful lie and misrepresentation of what i said.


And BTW I am a republican not a nationalist.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

If we vote against it you say there'll be troubles,
Either way we are screwed then.

I don't think there'd be violence, it's not the 1920's, but I do think that there could be deep political division with people aligning themselves on either side of the issue north and south.

I mean, I was quite happy with a softly-softly, unificiation by osmosis, few generations down-the-line thing, but Brexit has fucked that. It's a more urgent issue now and a UI potentially solves as many issues as it creates.

eagle eye wrote: »

if we vote against it what are the unionists going to do? Likely cause trouble in the south?.

I've asked that question here for years and nobody has given me anything approaching a cogent answer - what would a unionist campaign hope to achieve?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I don't think there'd be violence, it's not the 1920's, but I do think that there could be deep political division with people aligning themselves on either side of the issue north and south.

I mean, I was quite happy with a softly-softly, unificiation by osmosis, few generations down-the-line thing, but Brexit has fucked that. It's a more urgent issue now and a UI potentially solves as many issues as it creates.



I've asked that question here for years and nobody has given me anything approaching a cogent answer - what would a unionist campaign hope to achieve?

Loyalism is meeting in rooms above pubs now (see Jamie Bryson) and rumours have it that Bryson has been ordered to back off.

A sustained campaign is highly unlikely as they do not have the support required for that.

And there has been violence year on year since the GFA has been signed.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A sustained campaign is highly unlikely as they do not have the support required for that.

Campaign to achieve what?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Campaign to achieve what?

Let's see...pressure the British to take them back by bombing Dublin?



Pressure the British to come back and get them by bombing northern Ireland?

I personally think that when you see the likes of Robinson beginning to advise Unionism to get involved in what a UI might look like, that that is what will happen.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let's see...pressure the British to take them back by bombing Dublin?



Pressure the British to come back and get them by bombing northern Ireland?

I personally think that when you see the likes of Robinson beginning to advise Unionism to get involved in what a UI might look like, that that is what will happen.

Speaking of. Lol

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1196794770884038664?s=21

maccored

30-40 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

what would a unionist campaign hope to achieve?

not much without the british army doing all the technical work

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

It’s well known all paramilitary organizations up there are heavily infiltrated by British intelligence. They know how the players are and could take them out at need. Few replies to that tweet saying as much also

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

maccored wrote: »

not much without the british army doing all the technical work

But even if they did have the BA and loads of support what exactly would they want? Unionists are minority in the north, in Belfast, in Derry, four of the six counties. Repartition short a British military invasion and ethnic cleansing is not going to happen.

maccored

30-40 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

But even if they did have the BA and loads of support what exactly would they want? Unionists are minority in the north, in Belfast, in Derry, four of the six counties. Repartition short a British military invasion and ethnic cleansing is not going to happen.

i think they'd just want to show they didnt want something else. i get your point - and i think thats the unionist issue - they dont really have a point

facehugger99

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You don't have to vote for Unification at all but those who reject it will have to own it.

You and your ilk, with your vague, unspecified threats of violence should things not go your way, will be faced down, like your other fellow-travellers were.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

But even if they did have the BA and loads of support what exactly would they want? Unionists are minority in the north, in Belfast, in Derry, four of the six counties. Repartition short a British military invasion and ethnic cleansing is not going to happen.

It is fairly clear from the Brexit process that above everything else, belligerent Unionism, wants a Unionist veto re-instated. We all heard jeffery say it in his unguarded moment.
It is the only possible way they can hold onto control.

UUP moderate unionism has woken up and I think after this election cycle you will see them behaving far more moderately. They will go after the vote lent to the Alliance.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

But even if they did have the BA and loads of support what exactly would they want? Unionists are minority in the north, in Belfast, in Derry, four of the six counties. Repartition short a British military invasion and ethnic cleansing is not going to happen.

You say Unionists are a minority, where are you getting your facts?
How many people in NI consider themselves British? How many consider themselves Northern Irish? How many consider themselves Irish?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

You and your ilk, with your vague, unspecified threats of violence should things not go your way, will be faced down, like your other fellow-travellers were.

Calm down princess, nobody is talking about civil war.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

You say Unionists are a minority, where are you getting your facts?
How many people in NI consider themselves British? How many consider themselves Northern Irish? How many consider themselves Irish?

Nationalist/Catholics in NI projected to be the majority in the 2021 census

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Nationalist/Catholics in NI projected to be the majority in the 2021 census

So.nothing official as of now?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

You say Unionists are a minority, where are you getting your facts? How many people in NI consider themselves British? How many consider themselves Northern Irish? How many consider themselves Irish?

Roughly 45% Protestant Unionist Loyalist, 45% Catholic/Nationalist/Republican with 10% others is the split I think.

Neither side has a majority.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Roughly 45% Protestant Unionist Loyalist, 45% Catholic/Nationalist/Republican with 10% others is the split I think.

You can't group all Catholics as nationalist/republican nor all Protestant/Presbyterian.
It's the identity which is important as in British/Northern Irish/Irish.

BarryD2

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone depending on sectarian demographics to solve the issue of Ireland will be waiting a very long time. We'd all be better off demonstrating to and persuading our Unionist brethren that they'd be better off throwing their lot in with some new united form of state. That'd require sacrifice on both sides including a rethink on some sacred cows down south here. But where there's a will there's a way. The question though is there any real will?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

You can't group all Catholics as nationalist/republican nor all Protestant/Presbyterian.
It's the identity which is important as in British/Northern Irish/Irish.

That's true, but it's roughly how people vote in the north which is the only valuable metric in reality.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

You can't group all Catholics as nationalist/republican nor all Protestant/Presbyterian.
It's the identity which is important as in British/Northern Irish/Irish.

I was talking about the actual census.

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sectarianism in the northern statelet is a consequence of partition not the other way round - some of you have a child-like relationship with historic sequencing.

Also, you guys thinking a rejection of a UI in the south won't cause massive problems here are fooling yourselves - it wasn't long ago there was a bitter civil war here over the northern question - you better prepare yourselves to own the consequences of your views.

Sectarianism is a choice, nobody is forced to be a sectarian, your upbringing and your education may culturally indoctrinate you, but it is a choice that you freely make. So don’t blame some 100-year old event for the disgusting nature of the DUP and SF.

As for the threat in the second half of your post, the idea that violent nationalists will target people in the South if they reject a united Ireland is wishful thinking. They are more likely to cause trouble if a united Ireland is agreed because their lucrative criminal smuggling rings will be hit.

Mrtm17

10-15 years

Soon hopefully

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Nationalist/Catholics in NI projected to be the majority in the 2021 census

So why is the combined SF/SDLP vote falling then?