How long before Irish reunification?

IAMAMORON

somofagun wrote: »

Some on here would need to go and read up on the history of this place. This Island has had numerous periods of peace some lasting a couple of hundred years to a couple of years. Make no mistake it will all erupt again unless there is a united Ireland and Britian get out. Problem is now that with the major gold find in Greencastle in Tyrone the brits will not be giving that up to handy. If Brexit doesn't bring about a border referendum and a united Ireland then we will never get it without a war.

That's fighting talk Somo. Thing is, the good Friday agreement has been ratified by the majority of the people on this island. Nationalists and Unionists alike.

The purpose of the agreement is to give citizens of the whole of the country the opportunity to democratically elect their own politicians, to self govern and to manage their futures together, it is actually entrenched in the constitutions of the entire 32 county island, you should read it sometime.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You can get as pedantic over it as you like, but don't let it interfere with the actual argument. Go check the census if you want to. It mightn't be a million, but that figure is not far off. Especially if they got technical with getting their cousins to come home for a vote etc.

Throw that in with the unholy shít storm they would start if they thought they were going to be part of a United Ireland..... Get real please.

What unholy ****storm? From who? Loyalist paramilitaries? Who have no money no competence and no support.

Any group that started up that crap would be **** down quickly and would shoot themselves in the foot politically and socially.

You need to get real.

ohnonotgmail

somofagun wrote: »

Some on here would need to go and read up on the history of this place. This Island has had numerous periods of peace some lasting a couple of hundred years to a couple of years. Make no mistake it will all erupt again unless there is a united Ireland and Britian get out. Problem is now that with the major gold find in Greencastle in Tyrone the brits will not be giving that up to handy. If Brexit doesn't bring about a border referendum and a united Ireland then we will never get it without a war.

is the gold find worth more than £10Bn a year?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

That's fighting talk Somo. Thing is, the good Friday agreement has been ratified by the majority of the people on this island. Nationalists and Unionists alike.

The purpose of the agreement is to give citizens of the whole of the country the opportunity to democratically elect their own politicians, to self govern and to manage their futures together, it is actually entrenched in the constitutions of the entire 32 county island, you should read it sometime.

You lose all respect when posting dismissive insulting crap like ‘you should read it sometime’.

IAMAMORON

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

What unholy ****storm? From who? Loyalist paramilitaries? Who have no money no competence and no support.

Any group that started up that crap would be **** down quickly and would shoot themselves in the foot politically and socially.

You need to get real.

More fighting talk, sublime.

If you think that the loyalists in the north are not capable of raising hell if they want to you are either really naïve or you weren't alive during the troubles.

Wait till you see the shight those chunts get up to over the next 2 weeks for starters...

IAMAMORON

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You lose all respect when posting dismissive insulting crap like ‘you should read it sometime’.

There , see link , give it a go. I recommend all citizens of Ireland north and south to read it. It is a very important document.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

More fighting talk, sublime.

If you think that the loyalists in the north are not capable of raising hell if they want to you are either really naïve or you weren't alive during the troubles.

Wait till you see the shight those chunts get up to over the next 2 weeks for starters...

I was born in the 70s thanks. Are you capable of posting without sounding like a prick by any chance? Their little bonfire bullsh!t is just that. We deal with it every October all over the country. They themselves have boxed themselves in and won’t exactly be moving to Kerry or ballyfermot to try and do the same.

In your own words ‘do some reading’

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

More fighting talk, sublime.

If you think that the loyalists in the north are not capable of raising hell if they want to you are either really naïve or you weren't alive during the troubles.

Wait till you see the shight those chunts get up to over the next 2 weeks for starters...

So tell us what they did to defeat The Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA etc?
Both events were seen as the end for Unionism...the Leader describing the GFA as 'the worst thing that ever happened Unionism' and David Trimble no less, suggesting 'a little violence may be required' to defeat the AIA.


Then tell us how that worked out for them.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So tell us what they did to defeat The Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA etc?
Both events were seen as the end for Unionism...the Leader describing the GFA as 'the worst thing that ever happened Unionism' and David Trimble no less, suggesting 'a little violence may be required' to defeat the AIA.


Then tell us how that worked out for them.

Just out of interest francie, if NI voted to remain in the Union would you abide by that and accept it?

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So tell us what they did to defeat The Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA etc?
Both events were seen as the end for Unionism...the Leader describing the GFA as 'the worst thing that ever happened Unionism' and David Trimble no less, suggesting 'a little violence may be required' to defeat the AIA.


Then tell us how that worked out for them.

I cannot speak for unionists, who needs to , they are well able to speak for themselves.

But I doubt very much they are going to take unification lying down, at all.

If you look at their current political strategy you would see that they are not interested in implementing the agreement for a start. Any chance they get to dissolve Stormont they do so. Their end game is to have devolved rule from Westminster. They are not comfortable with governing from Stormont because it gives nationalists a voice, they don't want that.

They are very happy with the status quo. The longer Stormont is closed for business the longer the union remains.

But there are a lot more important items nationalists in the six counties need to be addressing. The language for starters. You can't let them take that from you, it is a lot more important than hard borders and other Brexit nonsense.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Just out of interest francie, if NI voted to remain in the Union would you abide by that and accept it?

Would I abide by it...yes.
Would I accept it...No...I would work towards the next vote.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I cannot speak for unionists, who needs to , they are well able to speak for themselves.

But I doubt very much they are going to take unification lying down, at all.

If you look at their current political strategy you would see that they are not interested in implementing the agreement for a start. Any chance they get to dissolve Stormont they do so. Their end game is to have devolved rule from Westminster. They are not comfortable with governing from Stormont because it gives nationalists a voice, they don't want that.

They are very happy with the status quo. The longer Stormont is closed for business the longer the union remains.

But there are a lot more important items nationalists in the six counties need to be addressing. The language for starters. You can't let them take that from you, it is a lot more important than hard borders and other Brexit nonsense.

Of course they will fight unification, they have been for 100 years.

Their current 'political strategy' has pushed the UK itself to the brink of extinction.
What Brexit has done has torn down the sham edifice of a 'union' of equals. And the realisation of what it is, is tearing down the 'union' itself.

Strategies in these circumstances don't exist.

_blaaz

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Doing what exactly?

Nah mate....lil interet in playing your game


Yous saying unionist create violence if a utd ireland....i see little reason to condemn nationlists for similar action if its blocked



Either way,id sooner violence in north than dissidents getting active in my locality upon a blocked referendum

_blaaz

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would I abide by it...yes.
Would I accept it...No...I would work towards the next vote.

For.all the valid critisms of the troubles...the 1 thing the gfa gaurantees is reruns of a reunification poll until it geos through



Scotland got 1 shot at independance and blew it....the english will hardly give em a second chance

IAMAMORON

_blaaz wrote: »

Nah mate....lil interet in playing your game


Yous saying unionist create violence if a utd ireland....i see little reason to condemn nationlists for similar action if its blocked



Either way,id sooner violence in north than dissidents getting active in my locality upon a blocked referendum

I can't stop anyone from picking up the milk bottle when they don't get what they want. It's probably a good job they don't smash on impact any more.

The GF Agreement is the only way pal. If you can't find a peaceful way to deal with it then you obviously don't support it. If that is the case your probably wasting time talking to me about it.

If nationalists raise hell again the Brits won't be too long about sending the paras back over and cutting loose, they have done it before... good luck with that.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I can't stop anyone from picking up the milk bottle when they don't get what they want. It's probably a good job they don't smash on impact any more.

The GF Agreement is the only way pal. If you can't find a peaceful way to deal with it then you obviously don't support it. If that is the case your probably wasting time talking to me about it.

If nationalists raise hell again the Brits won't be too long about sending the paras back over and cutting loose, they have done it before... good luck with that.

Those Brit’s you mention are currently looking for ways to tear up the GFA or at least worst just ignore it.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I can't stop anyone from picking up the milk bottle when they don't get what they want. It's probably a good job they don't smash on impact any more.

The GF Agreement is the only way pal. If you can't find a peaceful way to deal with it then you obviously don't support it. If that is the case your probably wasting time talking to me about it.

If nationalists raise hell again the Brits won't be too long about sending the paras back over and cutting loose, they have done it before... good luck with that.

There are committments by the British and Unionists in the GFA too and one of them is to withdraw peacefully if the majority wish it.

_blaaz

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I can't stop anyone from picking up the milk bottle when they don't get what they want. It's probably a good job they don't smash on impact any more.

The GF Agreement is the only way pal. If you can't find a peaceful way to deal with it then you obviously don't support it. If that is the case your probably wasting time talking to me about it.

Says lad who.imicitedly supports unioniat terrorism by talking up its threat :rolleyes:

If nationalists raise hell again the Brits won't be too long about sending the paras back over and cutting loose, they have done it before... good luck with that.

Meh...if they block a referendum,then they are responsible for any fall out which arises from it....the blame for violence lies at foot of british in your scenario

IAMAMORON

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Those Brit’s you mention are currently looking for ways to tear up the GFA or at least worst just ignore it.

They are looking for ways to wash their hands of the 6 counties as soon as possible. Please believe that for starters. The only people in the world who want a Northern Ireland are the unionists. The Brits could care less, half of them think Belfast is somewhere near Scotland.

Please ignore shíthead Tory ministers like Rees Mogg and Johnson, they are just idealists scrambling for votes. Deep down they want rid of the north. Most Labour politicians will openly admit it, including Jeremy Corbyn.

In saying that the conservative party are unlikely to not support any unionist party. Not in public anyway.

The Brits are out pal, it is the unionists you need to live with now.

IAMAMORON

_blaaz wrote: »

Says lad who.imicitedly supports unioniat terrorism by talking up its threat :rolleyes:



Meh...if they block a referendum,then they are responsible for any fall out which arises from it....the blame for violence lies at foot of british in your scenario

Sorry Blaaz, just because I don't think violence is a good idea does not mean I support unionist violence either. You are not understanding what I am saying. If you do understand what I mean, it is not fair to insinuate that I am supporting unionism … at all.

As I have already said, the Brits don't care about the north, but if trouble starts they have to..

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

They are looking for ways to wash their hands of the 6 counties as soon as possible. Please believe that for starters. The only people in the world who want a Northern Ireland are the unionists. The Brits could care less, half of them think Belfast is somewhere near Scotland.

Please ignore shíthead Tory ministers like Rees Mogg and Johnson, they are just idealists scrambling for votes. Deep down they want rid of the north. Most Labour politicians will openly admit it, including Jeremy Corbyn.

In saying that the conservative party are unlikely to not support any unionist party. Not in public anyway.

The Brits are out pal, it is the unionists you need to live with now.

I agree with you there completely. They’d happily be done with NI. And if brexit happens you’ll see the focus on media switch to why do we give that region so much money and get absolutely nothing back. The unionist support is diminishing rapidly though. That’s important and another factor as to why they won’t get back to work in Stormont.

20-30 years

What benefits, if any, does Brexit have for Unionists in the North?

Listening to Nigel Dodds on that BBC Spotlight programme a few months ago, it was like watching a lightbulb moment when it was pointed out to him that the leading Brexiteers in the ERG enunciated lucidly that they were not going to have the Brexit they wanted watered down by the needs of Unionists in NI. Dodds came back and said
they'd rather stay in the EU then.

It seems like a colossal own goal for everybody in the unionist community who has a stake in society's success. Furthermore, it seems that the DUP quite simply made an extraordinarily poor judgement call when they decided to advocate for Brexit, arguably the worst in the history of unionism. The farming community in particular must be livid at what they have done to livelihoods in that sector.

Is the DUP ever going to be able to close this Pandora's box? Or in reality do they want this chaos in order to end the growing similarities between north and south by virtue of being part of the EU and thus consolidate separateness at a time when demography is firmly going against unionism? If the latter, it's merely an overthrow of the wishes of the majority in NI and setting the stage for much worse (given that a majority in NI voted to remain in the EU, lest we forget).

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

What benefits, if any, does Brexit have for Unionists in the North?

Listening to Nigel Dodds on that BBC Spotlight programme a few months ago, it was like watching a lightbulb moment when it was pointed out to him that the leading Brexiteers in the ERG enunciated lucidly that they were not going to have the Brexit they wanted watered down by the needs of Unionists in NI. Dodds came back and said
they'd rather stay in the EU then.

It seems like a colossal own goal for everybody in the unionist community who has a stake in society's success. Furthermore, it seems that the DUP quite simply made an extraordinarily poor judgement call when they decided to advocate for Brexit, arguably the worst in the history of unionism. The farming community in particular must be livid at what they have done to livelihoods in that sector.

Is the DUP ever going to be able to close this Pandora's box? Or in reality do they want this chaos in order to end the growing similarities between north and south by virtue of being part of the EU and thus consolidate separateness at a time when demography is firmly going against unionism? If the latter, it's merely an overthrow of the wishes of the majority in NI and setting the stage for much worse (given that a majority in NI voted to remain in the EU, lest we forget).

Over a million people identify as Irish in northern Ireland...what way does Arlene think they will vote if it's a choice between a UK going down the toilet or an Ireland still within the EU?

Not thought out, arrogant and probably suicidal move. Not the first by the DUP wing of Unionism in fairness.

blanch152

_blaaz wrote: »

For.all the valid critisms of the troubles...the 1 thing the gfa gaurantees is reruns of a reunification poll until it geos through



Scotland got 1 shot at independance and blew it....the english will hardly give em a second chance

Not necessarily. It states that there must be a minimum of seven years between polls but not that a second one must ever happen. If the first poll is defeated badly, we never see a second one.

_blaaz

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Not necessarily. It states that there must be a minimum of seven years between polls but not that a second one must ever happen. If the first poll is defeated badly, we never see a second one.

Mate....if they refuse to hold second poll...how can anyone in good conscience condemn saoradh etc for violence...if the british dont uphold peaceful and democratic means??

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If the first poll is defeated badly, we never see a second one.

Nowhere, does it say that. The question of unification is open as long as the agreement is in force.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Over a million people identify as Irish in northern Ireland...what way does Arlene think they will vote if it's a choice between a UK going down the toilet or an Ireland still within the EU?

Not thought out, arrogant and probably suicidal move. Not the first by the DUP wing of Unionism in fairness.

I posted the figures from the 2011 census yesterday and your reading of them is quite "generous"

British 876,577
Northern Irish 533,085
Irish 513,390

Boxing.Fan

20-30 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You obviously don't understand the terms of the GF Agreement so....

There can only be a vote if it is agreed by the citizens of Northern Ireland alone. Free Staters only get to vote if it is passed in the six counties.

I was aware that both votes would be separate but I didnt know we would be waiting for the result in the north before we have our vote down here. Is that what you mean or am I taking you up wrong?

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I posted the figures from the 2011 census yesterday and your reading of them is quite "generous"

British 876,577
Northern Irish 533,085
Irish 513,390

When I was at school 533.085 + 513,390 was over a million.

facehugger99

Any opinion poll taken in the ROI which includes the issue of cost shows a resounding majority opposed to a UI scenario.

This will of course be taken into account of the voters of NI. Their choice will be between a 10 billion a year subvention from Mother England or economic devastation as a standalone entity - it's not really going to be a choice at all TBH.

There will never be a border poll IMO.