How long before Irish reunification?

Runaways

10-15 years

What would actually change that you would become stateless DC?
Nothing much at all if you think about it. Certainly nothing in the day to day

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

And just how would I rectify it?

Accept the democratic vote of the majority - the same thing everyone else is expected to do.

Partition was always going to be a negative for somebody, in practice and in it's absence. It should never have happened in the first place.

RobMc59

10-15 years

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Thankfully, he won't be able to vote in a referendum even if he moved here. Refs are for Irish citizens only

If I moved to Wales or Scotland I can vote there-why wouldn't I be able to vote in NI which is also part of the UK?

Runaways

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

If I moved to Wales or Scotland I can vote there-why wouldn't I be able to vote in NI which is also part of the UK?

The Brits..they haven’t gone away yknow

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If Unionists are so sure about it being 'bull****', let them lobby the SoS for a border poll.

Why wouldn't they? Copperfasten their place in the union for 20 years at least if they won a border poll.

I would say that the DUP would be almost as pleased as SF if a border poll was to be called within the next few years. Their recent follies would be forgotten in the heat of a constitutional referendum. The alternative NI parties, which threaten their share of the vote just as much as SF's, would be marginalised. And as all polling indicates that a referendum would be lost by a good margin, the prospect of Irish unity would be set back for at at least another 10-15 years.


However, I would hope that a responsible Secretary of State, with the support of both governments, would not at this stage call a referendum that would only be divisive and socially corrosive, while serving the agenda of the two big sectarian parties. Lets hope so for the sake of Irish unity.

Runaways

10-15 years

a pro UI campaign has all the advantages though.
It’s a relatively easy sell.

How will Arlene and co sell no? Look around how wonderful it is being in the union and with rampant unemployment ever growing brain drain among the youth and economic basket case status. Isn’t this great? Let’s keep together.


Ehhhhh

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

The alternative NI parties, which threaten their share of the vote just as much as SF's, would be marginalised.

Look, the best thing I can advise is that you inform yourself before adopting positions. Here is the leader of SF's biggest threat:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566

According to him a border poll is overdue as Brexit has happened.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look, the best thing I can advise is that you inform yourself before adopting positions. Here is the leader of SF's biggest threat:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566

According to him a border poll is overdue as Brexit has happened.

I think I keep reasonable informed, thanks.

But thanks for the link to the 3 year old article anyway. I can see why you may be behind, Francie, as you seem to spend almost every day and night posting on these threads. Does someone bring you meals and empty your commode?

All for the love of SF - ahh!:rolleyes:

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

1641 wrote: »

The alternative NI parties, which threaten their share of the vote just as much as SF's, would be marginalised. And as all polling indicates that a referendum would be lost by a good margin, the prospect of Irish unity would be set back for at at least another 10-15 years.

This has been Unionism's downfall, they're playing Connect Four and Republican are playing chess.

Achieving a UI is a long game, it doesn't really matter if the first poll is lost. The first border poll moves the UI debate along - Unionists would be forced to defend NI as a project while appealing to non-unionists which would expose the failure it has been for everyone.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

I think I keep reasonable informed, thanks.

But thanks for the link to the 3 year old article anyway. I can see why you may be behind, Francie, as you seem to spend almost every day and night posting on these threads. Does someone bring you meals and empty your commode?

All for the love of SF - ahh!:rolleyes:

And there it is. The sign that a poster's argument has run out of road.

Thanks for that!

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And there it is. The sign that a poster's argument has run out of road.

Thanks for that!

Argument? I won that easily, Francie. All you do is keep repeating the love of SF. I understand, though. Love being blind.:p

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

Argument? I won that easily, Francie. All you do is keep repeating the love of SF. I understand, though. Love being blind.:p

An informed poster would know that other parties play fast and lose with the idea of a border poll too.

Using SF's call for one, as a stick to beat them in particular with, is just wrong and ill informed, regardless.

3 years ago, the SDLP was calling for a border poll. When it was politically expedient for them they pivoted to 'there is a special place in hell for anybody calling for a border poll at this time'.

But yeh...SF something something.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An informed poster would know that other parties play fast and lose with the idea of a border poll too.

Using SF's call for one, as a stick to beat them in particular with, is just wrong and ill informed, regardless.

3 years ago, the SDLP was calling for a border poll. When it was politically expedient for them they pivoted to 'there is a special place in hell for anybody calling for a border poll at this time'.

But yeh...SF something something.

I agree with you. The call for a border poll now is just political expediency.



It is also somewhat cynical. And brings us nowhere nearer to unity.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

I agree with you. The call for a border poll now is just political expediency.



It is also somewhat cynical. And brings us nowhere nearer to unity.

There won't be unity without one.

My own opinion is that Unionists prime concern here is to stop the discussion of unity. They fear that most of all.

It is easier to keep the debate stalled. Seems to be the position of partitionists too. Fudge the issue as much as possible with cries of political opportunism and nepotism.

Thing is the debate has begun and a poll now looks inevitable.

On a cynical note, I think the Tories will grant one. They've never cared one way or another about NI or a UI and there is a remnant of bitterness about DUP betrayal. Suits Boris and his Brexit ambitions to get rid anyway.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There won't be unity without one.

My own opinion is that Unionists prime concern here is to stop the discussion of unity. They fear that most of all.

It is easier to keep the debate stalled. Seems to be the position of partitionists too. Fudge the issue as much as possible with cries of political opportunism and nepotism.

Thing is the debate has begun and a poll now looks inevitable.

On a cynical note, I think the Tories will grant one. They've never cared one way or another about NI or a UI and there is a remnant of bitterness about DUP betrayal. Suits Boris and his Brexit ambitions to get rid anyway.

There is a huge logical gap between "There won't be unity without one" to "there should be one now".
There should be a vote when there is a reasonably good prospect of success. An unsuccessful referendum after a polarising campaign will only set the prospect back years. An "informed poster" (to use your terminology) without any party agenda would see this.

I don't think the Tories will grant one - but I think they would if they thought it would succeed. They will keep their powder dry until then. They would be glad to be rid of NI.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

There is a huge logical gap between "There won't be unity without one" to "there should be one now".
There should be a vote when there is a reasonably good prospect of success. An unsuccessful referendum after a polarising campaign will only set the prospect back years. An "informed poster" (to use your terminology) without any party agenda would see this.

What makes you think it would fail?

I don't think the Tories will grant one - but I think they would if they thought it would succeed. They will keep their powder dry until then. They would be glad to be rid of NI.

A UI solves huge problems for Ireland, the EU and the UK. Partition has thwarted everything the UK has wanted to do for nearly 4 years now.

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What makes you think it would fail?

A UI solves huge problems for Ireland, the EU and the UK. Partition has thwarted everything the UK has wanted to do for nearly 4 years now.

And off we go again!

Bye, Francie. Hang on in there. (But no need for me to tell you that!).

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

And off we go again!

Bye, Francie. Hang on in there. (But no need for me to tell you that!).

No answer?

That kinda figures.

The results of the latest round of polling to keep you informed, as you do seem to be in a wee bubble there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If Unionists are so sure about it being 'bull****', let them lobby the SoS for a border poll.

Why wouldn't they? Copperfasten their place in the union for 20 years at least if they won a border poll.

It’s quite clear why we differ on the need for a border poll.
I understand once a poll is held then gfa says it needs held every 7 years. That would destabilise ni and just keep it a boiling pot, of course that is many republicans agenda but unionists and neutrals want the place to work

1641

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No answer?

That kinda figures.

The results of the latest round of polling to keep you informed, as you do seem to be in a wee bubble there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566

Those "results from the latest round of polling" are a bit off. That won't help me to "get informed" ! (Is that how you see your mission to the world, Francie? I am sort of realising how you got your username!).

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s quite clear why we differ on the need for a border poll.
I understand once a poll is held then gfa says it needs held every 7 years. That would destabilise ni and just keep it a boiling pot, of course that is many republicans agenda but unionists and neutrals want the place to work

Again...under informed :rolleyes:

The GFA states that at least 7 years must pass before there is another one, if at all. It would be still in the SoS's gift.

FrancieBrady

1641 wrote: »

Those "results from the latest round of polling" are a bit off. That won't help me to "get informed" ! (Is that how you see your mission to the world, Francie? I am sort of realising how you got your username!).

Apologies, wrong link.

https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/a-majority-favour-a-border-poll-on-the-island-of-ireland-in-the-next-10-years

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again...under informed :rolleyes:

The GFA states that at least 7 years must pass before there is another one, if at all. It would be still in the SoS's gift.

Well if you are correct then I am ok with a border pole. Yes will destabilise and may kick off some trouble but it will be such an overwhelming answer so as to put the idea to bed for another generation to look at

Runaways

10-15 years

We’re banning the word ‘wee’ the minute the border poll passes.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Runaways wrote: »

We’re banning the word ‘wee’ the minute the border poll passes.

There's not going to be one and I don't know about a united Ireland but you and francie already live on fantasy island..

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's not going to be one

Where in the world is this certainty coming from if not a fantasy bubble?

Runaways

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

There's not going to be one and I don't know about a united Ireland but you and francie already live on fantasy island..

Bloody Brits coming over here and being brits

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

The thought of SF and 'associates' strutting around like the cock o' the north lording it over the people of NI is a very worrying thought to many British people regardless of which side of the Irish sea you live.

You reckon that's a likely scenario?

It's not a case of monkey see monkey do. Irish people aren't very triumphalist in nature.

I mean, The minority protestants and unionists of the south weren't lorded over after 1922 were they?

Another hypothetical fallacy from the partitionist brigade.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Too much nonsense to reply to individually so here’s a bit of an attempt at catch all.
UI is not happening in our lifetime end of.
BUT Some of you think it is an panacea and I am just letting you know that you will have somewhere between 0.5-1million people who will detest losing their country and will be exploring every possibility to get their country back Entirely legitimate for those who don’t use violence (I don’t think they have to stay within the law - civil disobedience would be fine in my book) , and of course there will be many will do what ira etc done and turn to violence (latest estimate from Irish news journalist is that the UDA currently has 10-15k membership not to mention the others). That violence sadly will probably follow the ira example ie the vast majority of it will be sectarian but will also hit military and economic targets in eg Dublin. Undoubtedly the old civil rights marches will be copied and of course the scale of these given the marching culture will be immense (look what happened with a wee love Ulster march in Dublin) the riots that will result between marchers, local republicans and Garda will be overwhelming and there the downward spiral begins.
And before you start shooting the messenger, I am opposed to another sectarian squabble leading to 40 years and thousands of deaths. But it would be inevitable
But no one needs to worry cause it’s not happening. Thankfully.

Okay.

Downcow says it's not happening folks. Nothing to see here.

---

Respectfully, why would the PUL community need civil rights marches?

Do you know why the civil rights movement was needed by the RNC community?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Francie you know that 99.9% of Orange marches are now very well organised and behaved.
But you need to take on board that I have much of the same feelings when I have to drive past the Irish sign on my road several times a day as you feel on the odd occasion you see a parade. I agree with you that in the majority of both cases there is no ill-intent but that the other sees it as triumphalism

You're back to being afraid of the native language of the island again?

You know that the word "Down" comes from the Irish "Dún" meaning "fort"?

You speak and use Irish derived words everyday.

So the new arguments from the extreme end of loyalism is that they'll be stateless in a state which the people of their statelet voted to join, and they're afraid of some fadas/accents on words.