How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The sectarianism, the history, the goading, the marching around in circles outside a church, the holding up 5 fingers while marching by Sean Graham's bookmakers site of a unionist massacre.

That kind of shit.



The two so-called 'leaders' of Unionism triumphantly marching down the Garvaghy Rd.

You know, the decades-and-decades of rubbing nationalists' noses in it.

Just as I thought. Isolated stuff from 20 years ago.
I also believe that was disgraceful behaviour and has no place near a parade.
Behaviour and discipline is now of the highest degree. 3000 parades per year with 1000s of young people at each one and you have to go back years to find isolated incidents

Now my request was to tell me exactly what is offence about loyalist band parades s as and none of your examples come from loyalist band parades.

I think we all know They don’t want a N**** (prod) about the place

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Hey Tom, remember Holy Cross? That was something.

Downcow, can you defend the actions of loyalists towards those young children?

---

Also, I asked earlier, as to why you would need to have civil rights marches in the event if a UI and you didn't answer?

So given that you probably have no answer to that, maybe you could answer as to why Nationalists had civil rights marches in the 60s/70s


Yours in hypocrisy,

Bonnie

Deflect as you wish bonnie. You know the question was about band parades.
That would be like me saying fleadhs should be stopped because of ‘look at what those nationalists done to children on poppy day’

downcow

UDAWINNER wrote: »

so orangeman don't burn the irish flag on the 12th and want to march aloong the garvaghy road or the lower ormeau road where they are not wanted.
Yes or No. Await your response

NO, NO and NO
This really is quite sad if you believe any of this. You are living in the last century.
Give me one single example of any of these happening this century And don’t be moving the goal post again to suit your evidence.
I await you response

This thread is proof that a United Ireland will not come anytime soon.
You can actually taste bitterness & vitriol, just by reading it.

There's no understanding of other people's feelings or attitudes. & all anyone can do is argue tit for tat, they did this then Ye did that bull****.

I hope they don't have a border poll anytime in the near future because all it will do is cause problems & hurt.

I have sympathy for the victims of violence in both sides, & especially innocent victims.
I would hope eventually people could put aside their differences & just allow both sides to practice their traditions without issue.

downcow

Francie is a bit craftier that the rest of you guys He has refused to answer the question because he knows that band parades are disciplined well behaved family events and that you won’t get things happening like what the Tyrone gaa team done or what happens at the west Belfast festival and I would never ask for gaa or festivals to get banned. The organisers of those could come to a loyalist band parade and learn about discipline.
Francie knows there are 1000s of parades and he can find nothing yet nationalist events are peppered with displays of sectarianism
Pm Francie and maybe he’ll tell you privately that you are on a loser trying to find anything at band parades that is an issue - yet his type hate band parades because they are such a draw and sense of pride for young people

downcow

bubblypop wrote: »

This thread is proof that a United Ireland will not come anytime soon.
You can actually taste bitterness & vitriol, just by reading it.

There's no understanding of other people's feelings or attitudes. & all anyone can do is argue tit for tat, they did this then Ye did that bull****.

I hope they don't have a border poll anytime in the near future because all it will do is cause problems & hurt.

I have sympathy for the victims of violence in both sides, & especially innocent victims.
I would hope eventually people could put aside their differences & just allow both sides to practice their traditions without issue.

Yeah I agree with most of this
The big problem is that there is still a significant rump of nationalist/republicans who hate everything Northern Irish. They battered at everything British till they got rid of it now their focus is anything not Irish.
They particularly hate anything that young people are drawn to. They hate band parades, Orange halls and indeed the existence on our beloved NI football team.
None of these are expressions of British culture they are very Northern Irish. And they are part of the cement that holds our community together. So we know they will be under constant attack and demonisation

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

bubblypop wrote: »

This thread is proof that a United Ireland will not come anytime soon.

You're blissfully unaware of the privileged moral high-ground you think you stand on. Partition of the country is the principle cause of the divisions in the north yet you arrogantly think you can deny those who want to end it because they won't reconcile with the likes of the Love Ulster crowd.

You have no right to deny anyone anything when it comes to a United Ireland. You have no right to appropriate Ireland, its culture, its nationhood, our history, as something that belongs to people in the 26 counties.

You''ll learn this one way or another - mark my words.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're blissfully unaware of the privileged moral high-ground you think you stand on. Partition of the country is the principle cause of the divisions in the north yet you arrogantly think you can deny those who want to end it because they won't reconcile with the likes of the Love Ulster crowd.

You have no right to deny anyone anything when it comes to a United Ireland. You have no right to appropriate Ireland, its culture, its nationhood, our history, as something that belongs to people in the 26 counties.

You''ll learn this one way or another - mark my words.

Proves my point.
I am Irish, I am as entitled as anyone else to an opinion & my opinion is that there is far too much bitterness & living in the past. Not enough understanding of tolerance of each other traditions.

You do know your last line reads like a threat?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're blissfully unaware of the privileged moral high-ground you think you stand on. Partition of the country is the principle cause of the divisions in the north yet you arrogantly think you can deny those who want to end it because they won't reconcile with the likes of the Love Ulster crowd.

You have no right to deny anyone anything when it comes to a United Ireland. You have no right to appropriate Ireland, its culture, its nationhood, our history, as something that belongs to people in the 26 counties.

You''ll learn this one way or another - mark my words.

You have every right to achieve your UI democratically which is set out in the gfa. I voted for it and will abide by it. But if you achieve your united ireland my community have every right to begin the next day working to achieve a state to which we would have a sense of belonging.
In the unlikely even of a UI I think the whole island won’t be long granting us a very high level of autonomy like Kosovo. Sure if you want some overall sense of a United Ireland you are welcome to it but it will probably mean you’ll have overall responsibility for our bills lol.
There is no way a modern Ireland is going to be seen across the world of depriving a people of a homeland they have lived in fo at least 400 years - some would argue 2000 years
When we get properly organised you will look like Israel 😎

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You have every right to achieve your UI democratically which is set out in the gfa. I voted for it and will abide by it. But if you achieve your united ireland my community have every right to begin the next day working to achieve a state to which we would have a sense of belonging.
In the unlikely even of a UI I think the whole island won’t be long granting us a very high level of autonomy like Kosovo. Sure if you want some overall sense of a United Ireland you are welcome to it but it will probably mean you’ll have overall responsibility for our bills lol.
There is no way a modern Ireland is going to be seen across the world of depriving a people of a homeland they have lived in fo at least 400 years - some would argue 2000 years
When we get properly organised you will look like Israel ��

Is this going to be the pitch? To make Ireland look like Israel?

A United Ireland will be celebrated around the world downcow...that is the reality you need to come back to.

The last few pages show that it probably won't happen in my lifetime (which wasnt an option in the poll), and I assume its no coincidence that two options were orange.

I met a girl in Belfast recently who identifies herself as being Irish, but doesn't want unification. She didn't want Brexit either, but oh well.

Her attitude was "Aren't things grand the way they are?".

I have to agree to be honest.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this going to be the pitch? To make Ireland look like Israel?

A United Ireland will be celebrated around the world downcow...that is the reality you need to come back to.

I don’t think we’ll need any pitch cause it’s not happening. No if you would throw you weight behind a diverse inclusive NI then we could build something special

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I don’t think we’ll need any pitch cause it’s not happening. No if you would throw you weight behind a diverse inclusive NI then we could build something special

So belligerent Unionism wants to be inclusive now the writing is on the wall?

wexfordman2

15-20 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

NI is British so if I lived there wouldn't I be able to vote?
I understand Irish people living in the UK were able to vote in the brexit referendum.

On whether or not as a British (non NI citizen) you would be able to vote on a UI poll, tbh, I am not sure.

However, you would not be able to vote in any referendum in the republic. Referendums in the republic are binding and effect changes in the Irish constitution, and as such are reserved for Irish citizens only.

British referendums are non binding, and you do not have a written constitution, which is probably partly why non British citizens participate, but again, that is a decision made by your won government and legal system, so don't ask me why, or use it as a comparison or justification as to why the same should apply in other countries such as Ireland

wexfordman2

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

Yeah I agree with most of this
The big problem is that there is still a significant rump of nationalist/republicans who hate everything Northern Irish. They battered at everything British till they got rid of it now their focus is anything not Irish.
They particularly hate anything that young people are drawn to. They hate band parades, Orange halls and indeed the existence on our beloved NI football team.
None of these are expressions of British culture they are very Northern Irish. And they are part of the cement that holds our community together. So we know they will be under constant attack and demonisation

Really ?

On the NI football team, in a Ui it would be ridiculous, in fact, it's even ridiculous now, a pity a model like the Irish rugby team cannot be followed.

On the orange order, orange halls, and orangism in general ? Stripped of it's anti Catholic and sectarian outlook, it has a fascinating history, and any history on this island belongs to us all. I would love to be able to comfortably learn of orange history in ireland,l. Why on Earth would we destroy, diminish or obliterate the history behind the apprentice boys, the seige of Derry etc ?

It's a fascinating history, and without its current sectarian facade, should be nothing to be afraid of, and something to protect.

downcow

wexfordman2 wrote: »

On whether or not as a British (non NI citizen) you would be able to vote on a UI poll, tbh, I am not sure.

However, you would not be able to vote in any referendum in the republic. Referendums in the republic are binding and effect changes in the Irish constitution, and as such are reserved for Irish citizens only.

British referendums are non binding, and you do not have a written constitution, which is probably partly why non British citizens participate, but again, that is a decision made by your won government and legal system, so don't ask me why, or use it as a comparison or justification as to why the same should apply in other countries such as Ireland

So who would vote in a UI referendum. ie would Irish living elsewhere?

downcow

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Really ?

On the NI football team, in a Ui it would be ridiculous, in fact, it's even ridiculous now, a pity a model like the Irish rugby team cannot be followed.

On the orange order, orange halls, and orangism in general ? Stripped of it's anti Catholic and sectarian outlook, it has a fascinating history, and any history on this island belongs to us all. I would love to be able to comfortably learn of orange history in ireland,l. Why on Earth would we destroy, diminish or obliterate the history behind the apprentice boys, the seige of Derry etc ?

It's a fascinating history, and without its current sectarian facade, should be nothing to be afraid of, and something to protect.

Just different viewing positions. I get yours but you can’t get mine. For me the ridiculous situation is how the rugby team is made up from two countries and straddles an internationally recognised border. Does that happen anywhere else in the world. And of course only one country gets any recognition.
And I guess you know it was you guys set up the breakaway roi team. And I thank you for it.

downcow

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Really ?

On the NI football team, in a Ui it would be ridiculous, in fact, it's even ridiculous now, t.

Would you deprive Kosovo and Gibraltar of their teams?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

bubblypop wrote: »

I am Irish, I am as entitled as anyone else to an opinion & my opinion is that there is far too much bitterness & living in the past. Not enough understanding of tolerance of each other traditions.

You have no right to bolt-on conditions that must be met for a United Ireland, all the conditions are laid out in the Good Friday Agreement and that was a compromise itself by Republicans.

You do know your last line reads like a threat?

Not a threat - just a reminder that the problems you think are in the north are not contained there and will, when the time comes, become all-Ireland issues.

Anyone who rejects a United Ireland will need to own the political consequences of that and there will be consequences as it will almost certainly cause a rupture in 'southern' politics.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You have no right to bolt-on conditions that must be met for a United Ireland, all the conditions are laid out in the Good Friday Agreement and that was a compromise itself by Republicans.



Not a threat - just a reminder that the problems you think are in the north are not contained there and will, when the time comes, become all-Ireland issues.

Anyone who rejects a United Ireland will need to own the political consequences of that and there will be consequences as it will almost certainly cause a rupture in 'southern' politics.

So threats from Northern Irish republicans, about things that will happen in the South of we reject a united Ireland?
Are you serious?

RobMc59

10-15 years

Runaways wrote: »

You have a culture ?

lol

You're acting like a troll...

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

bubblypop wrote: »

So threats from Northern Irish republicans, about things that will happen in the South of we reject a united Ireland?
Are you serious?

I'm not sure if you're deliberately reading what I wrote wrong or are on a wind-up. There's no such thing as a 'Northern Irish Republican', Republicans consider the border, inasmuch as it exists at all, as illegitimate division of the Irish nation.

Simply put - these issues you think are 'northern' are not. If you come out against a UI you will have to own that and come up with a vision for a permanent separation because this state wasn't founded on that.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're deliberately reading what I wrote wrong or are on a wind-up. There's no such thing as a 'Northern Irish Republican', Republicans consider the border, inasmuch as it exists at all, as illegitimate division of the Irish nation.

Simply put - these issues you think are 'northern' are not. If you come out against a UI you will have to own that and come up with a vision for a permanent separation because this state wasn't founded on that.

Someone from Northern Ireland can consider themselves Irish, part of Britain or Northern Irish.
I don't really mind what anyone considers themselves. However, the border does exist.
I will have to ' own it' ?
Grand, when the time comes for a border poll, if attitudes are the same as being posted on this thread, then I can't see it working.

Not enough tolerance of other traditions is the problem & too many people living in the past. That includes Northern Ireland & the Republic of Ireland.
Don't see you many people in Britain caring one way or another

FrancieBrady

bubblypop wrote: »

Someone from Northern Ireland can consider themselves Irish, part of Britain or Northern Irish.
I don't really mind what anyone considers themselves. However, the border does exist.
I will have to ' own it' ?
Grand, when the time comes for a border poll, if attitudes are the same as being posted on this thread, then I can't see it working.

Not enough tolerance of other traditions is the problem & too many people living in the past. That includes Northern Ireland & the Republic of Ireland.
Don't see you many people in Britain caring one way or another

What goes on around marching and the annual 12th paralysis is never going to be part of anyone's tradition.
The OO and Unionists need to understand this. I think most of them do btw. They just need to be more vocal about it. You see downcow here desperately trying to avoid it. We know why that is - it cannot be defended.
Nobody has a problem with respectful traditions. On either side.

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Last two posts sort of tell me a lot about you and how welcome we would be in a new Ireland
I think I will stay in owc and you guys can get on with your monocultural wee crackpot of a country
I am soo glad I belong to the multicultural UK.

You’re as welcome as you make yourself. You have no interest in even being here though so we can only leave it up to you and your earlier threats of violence to manifest. Good luck with that. Some lads tried it before and it didn’t really work out for them.

Sensing a theme? You should.

Lord Fairlord

15-20 years

bubblypop wrote: »

This thread is proof that a United Ireland will not come anytime soon.
You can actually taste bitterness & vitriol, just by reading it.

There's no understanding of other people's feelings or attitudes. & all anyone can do is argue tit for tat, they did this then Ye did that bull****.

I hope they don't have a border poll anytime in the near future because all it will do is cause problems & hurt.

I have sympathy for the victims of violence in both sides, & especially innocent victims.
I would hope eventually people could put aside their differences & just allow both sides to practice their traditions without issue.

That's not fair; I have said that there needs to be some give and take.

Lord Fairlord

15-20 years

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The last few pages show that it probably won't happen in my lifetime (which wasnt an option in the poll), and I assume its no coincidence that two options were orange.

I met a girl in Belfast recently who identifies herself as being Irish, but doesn't want unification. She didn't want Brexit either, but oh well.

Her attitude was "Aren't things grand the way they are?".

I have to agree to be honest.

Things aren't grand the way that they are though. There are many lovely people from both sides in NI but that doesn't change that it's a failed statelet.

Lord Fairlord

15-20 years

To be clear, I'd be all for people being free to have marches/parades in Dublin as long as there was nothing anti-Catholic or anti-Irish played.
As a traditional Catholic and nationalist (but not republican) I sat and watched many bands marching in Kilkeel before the 12th and I even enjoyed some of the music.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What goes on around marching and the annual 12th paralysis is never going to be part of anyone's tradition.
The OO and Unionists need to understand this. I think most of them do btw. They just need to be more vocal about it. You see downcow here desperately trying to avoid it. We know why that is - it cannot be defended.
Nobody has a problem with respectful traditions. On either side.

Now how would we no what is respectful when you refuse to tell us what causes offence to you a general loyalist parades.
We had someone post isolated nonsense from 20 years ago that actually offended me as much as him.

downcow

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

To be clear, I'd be all for people being free to have marches/parades in Dublin as long as there was nothing anti-Catholic or anti-Irish played.
As a traditional Catholic and nationalist (but not republican) I sat and watched many bands marching in Kilkeel before the 12th and I even enjoyed some of the music.

That parade you enjoyed in Kilkeel could not be replicated in Dublin due to intolerance