How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

eire4 wrote: »

You have to give him credit though he really is good with the trolling. It is quite amusing really.

I am not completely sure what you mean by ‘trolling’ but there is no doubt some people on here don’t like anyone who challenges the old, Brit oppresser, unionist sectarian, and Irish victim, narrative.
I have always been prepared to back up anything I say with concrete evidence.
Of course I am sectarian and prejudiced, but at least I know I am, and am working for real equality.
The big danger is people who think they are the perpetual victims and are non sectarian.
Rather than vague non specific attacks on me (which just create heat) why not be specific about what you disagree with (which might bring some light)

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I am not completely sure what you mean by ‘trolling’ but there is no doubt some people on here don’t like anyone who challenges the old, Brit oppresser, unionist sectarian, and Irish victim, narrative.
I have always been prepared to back up anything I say with concrete evidence.
Of course I am sectarian and prejudiced, but at least I know I am, and am working for real equality.
The big danger is people who think they are the perpetual victims and are non sectarian.
Rather than vague non specific attacks on me (which just create heat) why not be specific about what you disagree with (which might bring some light)

So you finally admit your bias?

That took a while.

Myself and others are immensely proud of being Irishmen and women. And in a lot of cases we find partition abhorrent as it divides our country.

Personally I treasure my Ulster provenance. I have made many friends from all sides over the years and I always found it interesting that when I was abroad in Australia and Canada that when I met Irish unionists that they migrated to their fellow Irishmen more than their mainland British counterparts. Why was that?

Simple thing is, you see Irishness as something that's anathema to you whereas as there's many of us who appreciate and respect the ENTIRE cultural range of Irish people regardless of their politics.

Constantly throwing around insults that we're anti British is ridiculous and serves no-one any good.

A lot of us are anti-British in the sense that we don't want Britain having any part in our country's politics. That's the aspiration of Nationalists.

Nuance isn't a strong aspect of unionism. It's time you cottoned on to that. We're all gonna move on without you and your ilk.

RobMc59

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you finally admit your bias?

That took a while.

Myself and others are immensely proud of being Irishmen and women. And in a lot of cases we find partition abhorrent as it divides our country.

Personally I treasure my Ulster provenance. I have made many friends from all sides over the years and I always found it interesting that when I was abroad in Australia and Canada that when I met Irish unionists that they migrated to their fellow Irishmen more than their mainland British counterparts. Why was that?

Simple thing is, you see Irishness as something that's anathema to you whereas as there's many of us who appreciate and respect the ENTIRE cultural range of Irish people regardless of their politics.

Constantly throwing around insults that we're anti British is ridiculous and serves no-one any good.

A lot of us are anti-British in the sense that we don't want Britain having any part in our country's politics. That's the aspiration of Nationalists.

Nuance isn't a strong aspect of unionism. It's time you cottoned on to that. We're all gonna move on without you and your I'll.

You are anti British bonnie, you just don't admit it,there's nothing wrong with how he feels about being part of Britain ,for which he is attacked relentlessly,insulted and accused of being a troll by republican sympathizers here.There are many people in NI who identify as British and you should accept that is their right if they so choose.
If you don't mind me asking,as you mentioned you're from Ulster,is that one of the six counties or Irish Ulster?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you finally admit your bias?

That took a while.

Myself and others are immensely proud of being Irishmen and women. And in a lot of cases we find partition abhorrent as it divides our country.

Personally I treasure my Ulster provenance. I have made many friends from all sides over the years and I always found it interesting that when I was abroad in Australia and Canada that when I met Irish unionists that they migrated to their fellow Irishmen more than their mainland British counterparts. Why was that?

Simple thing is, you see Irishness as something that's anathema to you whereas as there's many of us who appreciate and respect the ENTIRE cultural range of Irish people regardless of their politics.

Constantly throwing around insults that we're anti British is ridiculous and serves no-one any good.

A lot of us are anti-British in the sense that we don't want Britain having any part in our country's politics. That's the aspiration of Nationalists.

Nuance isn't a strong aspect of unionism. It's time you cottoned on to that. We're all gonna move on without you and your I'll.

...and you don’t have any bias?

Your posts are full of bias and you can’t see it. Just this last wee post of yours includes:
- Your usual snipe to begin.
- And what’s an Irish unionist lol.
- And reminding us that you believe my aspirations are ‘abhorrent’.
- You ‘respect the ENTIRE cultural range of Irish people’ - so you respect me provided I allow you to class me as Irish, lol
- You condemn me for saying you are anti-british and then in very next sentence you say you are anti-british if we dare to take anything to do with politics on the island we live on. lol

If you could see how prejudiced and sectarian you are then maybe there would be hope for you to start treating brits like me with a little respect and understanding.
It’s actually quite sad to see how you lack perception of your own deep prejudice, but you are certainly not on your own.
It’s a tough journey to the place of recognising your own prejudice but I encourage you to start it. I’m a bit of a ways along that journey.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

This situation with the virus and the recent Brexit debacle has really shone the spotlight on the anomaly that is a partitioned Ireland. It shows that the Policy of English led UK governments can have an existential impact on the Irish state. It is something that needs to be addressed. English nationalists have no interest in either the Irish state or the six counties, their treatment of the DUP should have thought the Unionist population that they have no respect for them or their six counties but unfortunately the DUP are slow learners. The virus will now lay waste to much of the Britain's older and sicker population and inundate the hospitals which will not have the capacity to treat them, in short if the policy as outlined is followed there will be a disaster.
If the six counties follow the Britain down this path we will have a situation that will quickly become catastrophic. This will in turn become a threat to all the Island. Many of the people who will die will be the older generation who have voted for these DUP dinosaurs but in their hour of need the UK will again desert them.

downcow

cameramonkey wrote: »

This situation with the virus and the recent Brexit debacle has really shone the spotlight on the anomaly that is a partitioned Ireland. It shows that the Policy of English led UK governments can have an existential impact on the Irish state. It is something that needs to be addressed. English nationalists have no interest in either the Irish state or the six counties, their treatment of the DUP should have thought the Unionist population that they have no respect for them or their six counties but unfortunately the DUP are slow learners. The virus will now lay waste to much of the Britain's older and sicker population and inundate the hospitals which will not have the capacity to treat them, in short if the policy as outlined is followed there will be a disaster.
If the six counties follow the Britain down this path we will have a situation that will quickly become catastrophic. This will in turn become a threat to all the Island. Many of the people who will die will be the older generation who have voted for these DUP dinosaurs but in their hour of need the UK will again desert them.

Disgraceful post to suggest Britain cares less about its people than roi. You could say the same about Germany. Spain could say roi doesn’t care because the actions are much less.

Here is what WHO states on their website re Covid 19 “In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful”

Also the idea that roi and uk should do exactly the same because they have a land border would mean everywhere from France to china should be doing the same thing due to unbroken land connections, never mind neighbouring countries like France/Italy
You need drop the hatred of all things british.

Beasty

30-40 years

Beasty wrote: »

blanch152 and FrancieBrady - do not post in this thread again

FrancieBrady's threadban is now lifted following discussion with the user

blanch152's remains in place

FrancieBrady

Just wondering, has anyone's opinion changed in light of the health security issues on the island atm?

Is it tolerable that there is no mechanism to ensure a joint approach when pandemics arise?

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just wondering, has anyone's opinion changed in light of the health security issues on the island atm?

Is it tolerable that there is no mechanism to ensure a joint approach when pandemics arise?

The facts and figures clearly show mainland Europe's strategy has been disastrous to date in their handling of the virus so I hope the UK doesn't follow any advice from there and maintains a fluid,changing strategy rather than an'off the shelf,well that's what the rest of us are doing'european approach.
btw,glad to see you back.

careless sherpa

RobMc59 wrote: »

The facts and figures clearly show mainland Europe's strategy has been disastrous to date in their handling of the virus so I hope the UK doesn't follow any advice from there and maintains a fluid,changing strategy rather than an'off the shelf,well that's what the rest of us are doing'european approach.
btw,glad to see you back.

i know six people in London that have now being confirmed cases. Granted they are all known to each other and a few had been skiing. Is pretty drastic though. The next couple of weeks are going to be horrific for those working in the NHS and the people using the services.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

The facts and figures clearly show mainland Europe's strategy has been disastrous to date in their handling of the virus so I hope the UK doesn't follow any advice from there and maintains a fluid,changing strategy rather than an'off the shelf,well that's what the rest of us are doing'european approach.
btw,glad to see you back.

More interested in island thinking here rather than a UK v Europe one to be honest.

We are an island.
Different responses to animal or human health threats are potentially dangerous.

Once again, we have one party blocking the health and welfare concerns of the vast majority.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More interested in island thinking here rather than a UK v Europe one to be honest.

We are an island.
Different responses to animal or human health threats are potentially dangerous.

Once again, we have one party blocking the health and welfare concerns of the vast majority.

As a group of islands we should have a joint strategy but agreeing which one is the big question-I don't see anything reassuring in any recommended strategies coming from a Europe in total disarray so perhaps Ireland should follow the UK on this and before you attack me,just look at the coronavirus statistics in Europe.

RobMc59

10-15 years

careless sherpa wrote: »

i know six people in London that have now being confirmed cases. Granted they are all known to each other and a few had been skiing. Is pretty drastic though. The next couple of weeks are going to be horrific for those working in the NHS and the people using the services.

The uk government hasn't pulled any punches and has said there will be more people infected and deaths but to hold up the European strategy as a blueprint is questionable as we can all see what is happening there.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

As a group of islands we should have a joint strategy but agreeing which one is the big question-I don't see anything reassuring in any recommended strategies coming from a Europe in total disarray so perhaps Ireland should follow the UK on this and before you attack me,just look at the coronavirus statistics in Europe.

There is no need for a joint strategy among these islands...what is vital are island strategy's.

Britain can do what it wishes as a sovereign nation as can Ireland.

The British have accepted that it is for 'the people of the island of Ireland to decide their future' so it is not an alien concept to them.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no need for a joint strategy among these islands...what is vital are island strategy's.

Britain can do what it wishes as a sovereign nation as can Ireland.

The British have accepted that it is for 'the people of the island of Ireland to decide their future' so it is not an alien concept to them.

Ok,well Britain which includes NI isn't following any advice from the EU on this subject

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ok,well Britain which includes NI isn't following any advice from the EU on this subject

And I am asking others does that affect how they would look at a UI.

We cannot secure the island in a pandemic situation as we would wish, all down to one small political party.

Is that a tolerable situation.

It isn't a mickey waving competition between Britain and the EU that I am interested in.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ok,well Britain which includes NI isn't following any advice from the EU on this subject

Well done, Captain Obvious. Everyone is aware that Britain, including NI isn't following the same strategy. This isn't advice from the EU though, Ireland has a strategy based on the advice of the WHO. Britain has a different strategy, one that I suspect prioritises different things to protect than the Irish strategy.

No one disagrees that the strategies are different, its self evident and doesn't really need repeating, and certainly isn't an argument.

The discussion is around whether the British response is a good idea (or indeed, if the Irish response is), or whether it would be more sensible to at least co-ordinate the response on the island of Ireland.

Your reading of it strikes me as a large part of the reason many in Britain are so supportive of the different approach, and champion a small group of experts suggesting this approach, while ignoring the general consensus (including among a great deal of British experts on the topic)- getting caught up in Brexit type, 'we don't have to listen to the EU' type of thinking. While there is a discussion to be had on the merits of the British response and the pretty-much-everywhere-else response, trying to paint it as another UK vs EU issue is entirely unhelpful.

Water John

I would much prefer if the approach we're adopting in the ROI was an all island strategy. If Dr ian Paisley was still in charge, it would be, as he did with animal welfare.
However, the UUP and Alliance are taking the same line as the DUP on this. So it's not a, one party decision Francie. Also Michelle O'Neill badly misstepped the first day, only to get a bollocking from her own party, and doing a volte face the following day, thus having no credibility.

FrancieBrady

Water John wrote: »

I would much prefer if the approach we're adopting in the ROI was an all island strategy. If Dr ian Paisley was still in charge, it would be, as he did with animal welfare.
However, the UUP and Alliance are taking the same line as the DUP on this. So it's not a, one party decision Francie. Also Michelle O'Neill badly misstepped the first day, only to get a bollocking from her own party, and doing a volte face the following day, thus having no credibility.

All that is required in the executive is the backing of SF and the DUP. With the SDLP on board with an all island approach any legislation/strategy would get through. So in the realpolitick world it is the DUP blocking.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just wondering, has anyone's opinion changed in light of the health security issues on the island atm?

Is it tolerable that there is no mechanism to ensure a joint approach when pandemics arise?

I would love to see a joint approach across these two wee islands

RobMc59

10-15 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Well done, Captain Obvious. Everyone is aware that Britain, including NI isn't following the same strategy. This isn't advice from the EU though, Ireland has a strategy based on the advice of the WHO. Britain has a different strategy, one that I suspect prioritises different things to protect than the Irish strategy.

No one disagrees that the strategies are different, its self evident and doesn't really need repeating, and certainly isn't an argument.

The discussion is around whether the British response is a good idea (or indeed, if the Irish response is), or whether it would be more sensible to at least co-ordinate the response on the island of Ireland.

Your reading of it strikes me as a large part of the reason many in Britain are so supportive of the different approach, and champion a small group of experts suggesting this approach, while ignoring the general consensus (including among a great deal of British experts on the topic)- getting caught up in Brexit type, 'we don't have to listen to the EU' type of thinking. While there is a discussion to be had on the merits of the British response and the pretty-much-everywhere-else response, trying to paint it as another UK vs EU issue is entirely unhelpful.

I can see your point Fionn and perhaps a joint response on the island of Ireland would be better.The fact remains though that the EU hasn't handled the crisis well and as part of the EU Ireland is bound to lean towards their strategy even though its been a disaster so far with Italy, for example having more confirmed cases than all the other major European countries combined.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I can see your point Fionn and perhaps a joint response on the island of Ireland would be better.The fact remains though that the EU hasn't handled the crisis well and as part of the EU Ireland is bound to lean towards their strategy even though its been a disaster so far with Italy, for example having more confirmed cases than all the other major European countries combined.

Is there a EU strategy? Can you link to it?

Ireland and other European countries are following WHO guidelines and strategies.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I can see your point Fionn and perhaps a joint response on the island of Ireland would be better.The fact remains though that the EU hasn't handled the crisis well and as part of the EU Ireland is bound to lean towards their strategy even though its been a disaster so far with Italy, for example having more confirmed cases than all the other major European countries combined.

Firstly, re-reading my last post, it comes across as rude rather than a gentle jibe as intended, so apologies for that.

But on this point, you still seem to be hung up on some EU strategy. There is no EU strategy, individual governments have their own strategies, guided by WHO guidelines. The issue isnt UK vs EU, its establishing why the UK strategy is so different to pretty much everywhere else in the world, when they're working off the same starting information.

As I said, my suspicion on the matter is that it is because the UK have decided to strategically prioritise protecting something different to the rest.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no need for a joint strategy among these islands...what is vital are island strategy's.

Britain can do what it wishes as a sovereign nation as can Ireland.

The British have accepted that it is for 'the people of the island of Ireland to decide their future' so it is not an alien concept to them.

Francie, you can't wish away the GFA. NI is an integral part of the UK until the folk of NI decide otherwise

You say, "Britain can do what it wishes as a sovereign nation". I stand to be corrected, but i don't believe it is a sovereign nation. I believe the only sovereign nations on these Islands are the ROI and The UK of GB & NI. Am i correct?

I still have to pinch myself that you and your mates actually signed up to this. lol. If Calsberg done treaties

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie, you can't wish away the GFA. NI is an integral part of the UK until the folk of NI decide otherwise

You say, "Britain can do what it wishes as a sovereign nation". I stand to be corrected, but i don't believe it is a sovereign nation. I believe the only sovereign nations on these Islands are the ROI and The UK of GB & NI. Am i correct?

I still have to pinch myself that you and your mates actually signed up to this. lol. If Calsberg done treaties

Yes downcow...we know the UK is a sovereign nation.


The question is, does this alter your view that in respect of the 'island of Ireland's' health a UI is MORE desirable.

Sinbad_NI

EU response seens to be to close the borders. Least that's the way it going.

Is that what you're proposing Francie?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

You are anti British bonnie, you just don't admit it,there's nothing wrong with how he feels about being part of Britain ,for which he is attacked relentlessly,insulted and accused of being a troll by republican sympathizers here.There are many people in NI who identify as British and you should accept that is their right if they so choose.
If you don't mind me asking,as you mentioned you're from Ulster,is that one of the six counties or Irish Ulster?

I have never said anything anti British. I will definitely criticise the British government and unionists who go on like DC.

I also never said I was from Ulster. Read that again.

Also, no matter what, all of Ulster is Irish Ulster. Jurisdictions aside.

You need to learn about nuance.

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

EU response seens to be to close the borders. Least that's the way it going.

Is that what you're proposing Francie?

I asked a question.

I didn't 'propose' anything. A virus will not respect a border, especially a porous one that could never and was never effective.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes downcow...we know the UK is a sovereign nation.


The question is, does this alter your view that in respect of the 'island of Ireland's' health a UI is MORE desirable.

I think the two neighbouring sovereign nations should have talked to eachother and found a way to move forward together (or at least tried). That was all screwed when Leo panicked and issued his diktat from Washington and never even told the other jurisdiction which shares the Island, never mind the other sovereign nation.
Disgraceful act really

Do you think he should have informed stormont or the NI medical experts as to what he was announcing?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I think the two neighbouring sovereign nations should have talked to eachother and found a way to move forward together (or at least tried). That was all screwed when Leo panicked and issued his diktat from Washington and never even told the other jurisdiction which shares the Island, never mind the other sovereign nation.
Disgraceful act really

Do you think he should have informed stormont or the NI medical experts as to what he was announcing?

We are a foreign country we keep being told. Which is it?

Stop complaining about a decision made by the Taoiseach that undermined the inaction of the UK.

If you can't get your head out of your ass and see that a coordinated all island solution is required then there really is no point in engaging with you on this subject. Your attitude essentially boils down to "Taigs R Bad mmmkay".