How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

ittakestwo wrote: »

But the argument there is that will lead to a spike and there wont be enough intensive care units to handle the spike which would lead to deaths that would not happen if they had tried to mitigate a spike.

Yes, I get it. That’s the dilemma

downcow

beerguts wrote: »

I would argue that it will get more difficult for re-unification if it doesn't occur i the next 10-15 years. For a lot of us in the Republic not near the border the North is a faraway place that we pay little heed to. Now the majority will say that we want a united Ireland and would vote that way when the government held the referendum down south if the North had voted yes to uniting with us, but I think that is fading down here slowly. Mainly because we have been so separate for so long and now that the troubles seem to be stopped.
I am interested in this subject not because I know anything about the North but rather the changes that could occur if the island was united. I would have serious issue if we had to say replace our anthem, the Garda Síochána, Flag etc.. For all the republic faults I like this country and its direction and I don't have serious affinity for the Irish people in the 6 counties.
Would there ever be an argument for just subsuming the Nationalist areas up there and leaving the North east portion to be governed directly from London. Might be too simplistic for people in the know but for me it would be tolerable.

That would be sad in that it would be another sectarian carve up. My hope would be that all communities in ni have a much deeper connection with each other and would decide we want to live together as a country with excellent relationships with the two countries to the south and east

RobMc59

10-15 years

ittakestwo wrote: »

But the argument there is that will lead to a spike and there wont be enough intensive care units to handle the spike which would lead to deaths that would not happen if they had tried to mitigate a spike.

Do you think any other country will be able to handle the inevitable avalanche of infected people any better than the UK?To imply one country's strategy will result in lower casualties is misleading-better to know the truth that its going to get a lot worse before we see light at the end of the tunnel imo.

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

There’s an old joke about Ian paisley converting to Catholicism on his death bed and his wife pleading with him why??
And he replies ‘better one of them than one of us’

DCs thinking seems to follow that line of thought. He’s a huge brexit supporter it seems and maybe this will thin the right herd. Also seemingly doesn’t know the virus is blind to community race social status or location.

Top down thinking from unionism it’s seems. Arlene and the UUP have the same thought

Point out anywhere that I have declare my big support for brexit. You will only find posts where I explained I didn’t vote because I was neutral with a slight leaning to remaining.
But that doesn’t suit the picture you want to paint. Everyone has to fit snuggly into big boxes for you

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Point out anywhere that I have declare my big support for brexit. You will only find posts where I explained I didn’t vote because I was neutral with a slight leaning to remaining.
But that doesn’t suit the picture you want to paint. Everyone has to fit snuggly into big boxes for you

It is like your GFA stance.

You say you voted for it (GFA) but everything in your posting says you are anti it.

ittakestwo

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Do you think any other country will be able to handle the inevitable avalanche of infected people any better than the UK?To imply one country's strategy will result in lower casualties is misleading-better to know the truth that its going to get a lot worse before we see light at the end of the tunnel imo.

No but other countries are trying to avoid the avalanche or at least spread it out over time thus putting less pressure at any given time on its IC units. The UK seems to be going against the grain and taking a softer approach.

ancapailldorcha

Runaways wrote: »

There’s an old joke about Ian paisley converting to Catholicism on his death bed and his wife pleading with him why??
And he replies ‘better one of them than one of us’

DCs thinking seems to follow that line of thought. He’s a huge brexit supporter it seems and maybe this will thin the right herd. Also seemingly doesn’t know the virus is blind to community race social status or location.

Top down thinking from unionism it’s seems. Arlene and the UUP have the same thought

Covid-19 is a much bigger threat to older voters who are presumably more likely to vote for the DUP. Younger people have less to fret about. If anything, this seems like it'll benefit the republican cause.

downcow

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Covid-19 is a much bigger threat to older voters who are presumably more likely to vote for the DUP. Younger people have less to fret about. If anything, this seems like it'll benefit the republican cause.

Disgraceful post.
To try and analyse which voters will be killed by Covid 19 and how that might impact the political situation. Seems like you are suggesting that Covid 19 will carry on the work of the IRA.
- And at best extremely naive

Thankfully our nurses won’t be making calculations like that when they are deciding who they can save.

ancapailldorcha

15-20 years

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Covid-19 is a much bigger threat to older voters who are presumably more likely to vote for the DUP. Younger people have less to fret about. If anything, this seems like it'll benefit the republican cause.

There used be an old joke,that a bad winter could end the union



Tbh the DUPs carry on here has probably solidified any residual/soft support for a UI in the free state,

Who can in all.honesty justify 2 different approaches to this on such a small.island....like will the cv19 be last pandemic,or will they become more common going forward

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

Disgraceful post.
To try and analyse which voters will be killed by Covid 19 and how that might impact the political situation. Seems like you are suggesting that Covid 19 will carry on the work of the IRA.
- And at best extremely naive

Thankfully our nurses won’t be making calculations like that when they are deciding who they can save.

Did you even read what I wrote or are you just this determined to be outraged?

I've a degree in Microbiology. I know a little bit about how respiratory viruses are transmitted and how they work. It's well documented that older people, the immunocompromised and those with pre-existing conditions are groups who are more vulnerable to contagious diseases.

downcow

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

Disgraceful post.
To try and analyse which voters will be killed by Covid 19 and how that might impact the political situation. Seems like you are suggesting that Covid 19 will carry on the work of the IRA.
- And at best extremely naive

Thankfully our nurses won’t be making calculations like that when they are deciding who they can save.

Mate it kills older at alot higher rates than any age group

Prodestants only out number catholics in older age.groups....its a fairly obvious point to make

I think its something like 40 people who arent medical professions,under age of 60 have died in italy.

downcow

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Did you even read what I wrote or are you just this determined to be outraged?

I've a degree in Microbiology. I know a little bit about how respiratory viruses are transmitted and how they work. It's well documented that older people, the immunocompromised and those with pre-existing conditions are groups who are more vulnerable to contagious diseases.

You are suggesting that their will be more dup voters die than others. You are also implying that age profile of dup voters is much higher than other parties.

It’s just an unsavoury post

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Having lived in Britain for a spell I do totally understand where unionism is coming from.

The thing is, from a British (unionist perspective) we live on a small group of islands, Great Britain & Ireland only 12 miles apart, humans travelling too & frow for millennia, blood lines tied & bonded, strong cultural connections on these islands too.

We've also had the plantation of Ulster, hence 'Ulster Scots' which ties Northern Ireland in particular to Scotland, and by extension the rest of the island of GB, which is so close to us in so many ways.

It would be very strange would it not, if there was no feelings of connection between the two islands, hence so many on the island of Ireland identify with being British & wanting to remain part of this small family of islands, with Britain & Britishness being the dominant cultural force.

^This is the Unionist way^.

On the other hand you have Irish Republicanism which has always seaked to separate these islands (Unionists say artificially) so that this island is separated from our neighbors and that we are not part of "their family"!

So who's right? Are Britain & Ireland (as Unionists see it) 'family' ? Or, are the two islands (as Republicans see it) foreign & totally sperate to each other?

We in the ROI broke away politically so that we could distance ourselves from next door, Unionists on the other hand don't want any distance between Ireland & Britain, hence even the existing 12 miles is too far for them.

Time to build a bridge me thinks

This is a great post, and a good insight into the Unionist mindset. Reprinted here so that Republicans can think about it and digest it, if they haven't done so already....

Chao.

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

You are suggesting that their will be more dup voters die than others.

It's possible.

downcow wrote: »

You are also implying that age profile of dup voters is much higher than other parties.

It may be. People usually lean right more as they age.

downcow wrote: »

It’s just an unsavoury post

It really isn't.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mate it kills older at alot higher rates than any age group

Prodestants only out number catholics in older age.groups....its a fairly obvious point to make

I think its something like 40 people who arent medical professions,under age of 60 have died in italy.

Firstly the comment was not about Protestant. It was about dup voters. My guess is that SDLP & uup voters potentially have the highest age profile.

It is also a lot of spin to suggest that Covid will impact the next election. My wife issues nursing sufferers and the vast majority have serious underlying issues eg elderly with terminal cancer. Covid is bring their death forward a bit. Truly very sad (and of course there are exceptions) but not an impact that is going to skew the next election.
ancapailldorcha is either being provocative or naive. I am honestly not sure which. I want to believe it’s the latter.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Truly very sad (and of course there are exceptions) but not an impact that is going to skew the next election.

Are you trying to make yourself feel better about siding once again with a disastrous move by the DUP/UUP/Alliance in backing Boris's experiment?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

That would be sad in that it would be another sectarian carve up. My hope would be that all communities in ni have a much deeper connection with each other and would decide we want to live together as a country with excellent relationships with the two countries to the south and east

Well, unionists sure are going the right way about building a deeper connection with nationalists so that they would want to remain in an independent NI with unionists without the moderating influence either the British or Irish Governments. All the signs are that unionists do not want to accommodate the Irish half of the population.

On the other hand DC, bearing in mind that you think that there is a programme of genocide against unionists in NI, are you not concerned about being the minority in this new independent state?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you trying to make yourself feel better about siding once again with a disastrous move by the DUP/UUP/Alliance in backing Boris's experiment?

Francie that attempted rescue, honourable as it is, will not save your bacon on here when you step out off line again. Lol
Glad to see you back

downcow

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

Firstly the comment was not about Protestant. It was about dup voters. My guess is that SDLP & uup voters potentially have the highest age profile.

It is also a lot of spin to suggest that Covid will impact the next election. My wife issues nursing sufferers and the vast majority have serious underlying is eg elderly with terminal cancer. Covid is bring their death forward a bit. Truly very sad (and of course there are exceptions) but not an impact that is going to skew the next election.
ancapailldorcha is either being provocative or naive. I am honestly not sure which. I want to believe it’s the latter.

The older age profile,tends to have higher voting % than lower age groups (would love to see this change)

If your looking at 5 - 10% over 70s dying premaeturly,excluding those who are likely to.die anyway(its killing immocompromised in younger age group)due to covid-19 surely its obvious to point out that this will effect elections


I undersrand that this may cut to.the bone as regards demographics and be a difficult.time for you....but scraming unsavory,labeling posters provocative for saying obvious and trying to shut down the discussion deosnt help anyone

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Well, unionists sure are going the right way about building a deeper connection with nationalists so that they would want to remain in an independent NI with unionists without the moderating influence either the British or Irish Governments. All the signs are that unionists do not want to accommodate the Irish half of the population.

On the other hand DC, bearing in mind that you think that there is a programme of genocide against unionists in NI, are you not concerned about being the minority in this new independent state?

That’s a term I have never used

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The older age profile,tends to have higher voting % than lower age groups (would love to see this change)

If your looking at 5 - 10% over 70s dying premaeturly,excluding those who are likely to.die anyway(its killing immocompromised in younger age group)due to covid-19 surely its obvious to point out that this will effect elections


I undersrand that this may cut to.the bone as regards demographics and be a difficult.time for you....but scraming unsavory,labeling posters provocative for saying obvious and trying to shut down the discussion deosnt help anyone

Not shutting anything down.
I believe it is an unsavoury approached and also rediculous to suggest that dup will lose out at next election due to their voters being killed by Covid

I can assure you the vast vast majority of Covid patients my wife is nursing would not have been voting anyway at the next election.

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

Not shutting anything down.
I believe it is an unsavoury approached and also rediculous to suggest that dup will lose out at next election due to their voters being killed by Covid

I can assure you the vast vast majority of Covid patients my wife is nursing would not have been voting anyway at the next election.

I never said that they'd lose out. I began by pointing out how utterly daft your idea of infecting everyone and getting it out of the way idea was.

downcow

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

Not shutting anything down.
I believe it is an unsavoury approached and also rediculous to suggest that dup will lose out at next election due to their voters being killed by Covid

I can assure you the vast vast majority of Covid patients my wife is nursing would not have been voting anyway at the next election.

Can you not see how older age groups dying off prematurely will weaken union permenatly on demographics though??

Yes catholic and prodestant will likely die in equal numbers,but voters due to come online are proportionally much more likely to be catholic??

Kind of somewhat an obvious conclusion to draw that unionist parties will lose out??

You may be right about uup and sdlp voters being older,honestly idk,but your missing the much larger picture here,and subject of thread title


Boris johnson if he dont abandon this herd immunity nonsense will be responsible for nearly as many innocent deaths among unionist population as the pira,

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

beerguts wrote: »

I would argue that it will get more difficult for re-unification if it doesn't occur i the next 10-15 years. For a lot of us in the Republic not near the border the North is a faraway place that we pay little heed to. Now the majority will say that we want a united Ireland and would vote that way when the government held the referendum down south if the North had voted yes to uniting with us, but I think that is fading down here slowly. Mainly because we have been so separate for so long and now that the troubles seem to be stopped.
I am interested in this subject not because I know anything about the North but rather the changes that could occur if the island was united. I would have serious issue if we had to say replace our anthem, the Garda Síochána, Flag etc.. For all the republic faults I like this country and its direction and I don't have serious affinity for the Irish people in the 6 counties.
Would there ever be an argument for just subsuming the Nationalist areas up there and leaving the North east portion to be governed directly from London. Might be too simplistic for people in the know but for me it would be tolerable.

I appreciate this sort of post. It's the sort of level headed posts missing around these parts for those who are happy with the status quo.

The thing is, the processes of how we would unite don't exist yet nor do we know what sort of lead time we'd require.

Scotland put a 18months to 2 year timeline on their independence. I'd say we'd be similar. The thing about something like this, while a long lead in would be preferable from a logistical point of view, as Brexit showed, you have to move with a plan and with purpose, so I would think that by the time a vote came around that a plan would have been in place and we would not only be voting to reunify but also for a anew agreed Ireland.

Unfortunately, there's too many variables to discuss everything you bring up here.

You don't mind me asking where you are from?

It's not a new phenomenon, but the friction of distance and geographical gravity will always leads to what you have stated. It's perfectly normal.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Disgraceful post.
To try and analyse which voters will be killed by Covid 19 and how that might impact the political situation. Seems like you are suggesting that Covid 19 will carry on the work of the IRA.
- And at best extremely naive

Thankfully our nurses won’t be making calculations like that when they are deciding who they can save.

This is a prime example of the problems with your engagement on here.

It is a FACT that older voters tend to be Unionists and that younger voters tend to be Nationalists. I don't see how you can possibly get offended by that. Well, I can, you get offended by anything.

Now that the UK government seem to be rolling back on their great experiment, I'm sure you'd agree that not following what most other countries were doing was folly, and that maybe an all island solution should be followed?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

You are suggesting that their will be more dup voters die than others. You are also implying that age profile of dup voters is much higher than other parties.

It’s just an unsavoury post

It's not unsavoury. It's a reality. You're awful sensitive today.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

That’s a term I have never used

Sorry, it was "ethnic cleansing" that you used.

Perhaps if jm08 changed the wording you would have an issue with the substantive point of his post?

If not, I'm sure you're capable of highlighting the inaccuracies of his posts supposition of your position?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

That’s a term I have never used

The lines are very blurred between ethnic cleansing and genocide. You have used ethnic cleansings.

“Your motivation may be that you want the people out, but if in doing that you intend to destroy the group, then it’s also genocide,” said James Silk, a human rights professor at Yale Law School.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/whats-the-difference-between-genocide-and-ethnic-cleansing


Now, how about just answering my question which was!


Well, unionists sure are going the right way about building a deeper connection with nationalists so that they would want to remain in an independent NI with unionists without the moderating influence either the British or Irish Governments. All the signs are that unionists do not want to accommodate the Irish half of the population.

On the other hand DC, bearing in mind that you think that there is a programme of genocide against unionists in NI, are you not concerned about being the minority in this new independent state?

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

My wife is currently looking after the corona patients in a local hospital so it’s fairly inevitable and yes, there is part of me just wishes we could get it sooner rather than later (not at all, would be best but I don’t think that’s likely)

You cannot disconnect the mayhem of the closures policy with peoples lives. Do you know how many lives will be lost due to the hundreds of thousands going out of work etc

Well, good for you. You've no elderly parents to be concerned about I take it ?

cameramonkey

20-30 years

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Covid-19 is a much bigger threat to older voters who are presumably more likely to vote for the DUP. Younger people have less to fret about. If anything, this seems like it'll benefit the republican cause.

It is true that older people will die in much bigger numbers than young ones hence the DUP voter base will suffer much more, they also have a bigger turn out than younger voters so their deaths will be more keenly felt. I thinks it 2:1 unionist to nationalist in the over 65 range and even more pronounced in the higher age bracket. The most important thing and its something that we all forget that even if this virus lays waste to a huge number of older Unionist population they can still say that they died under the flag of the Union.


"We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mists of an Irish Republic" 🇬🇧