How long before Irish reunification?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

To say Provos campaign wasn't sectarian is simply incorrect.

A large majority of the PIRA's killings were security forces, Protestant civilians were the least likely demographic to be killed during the troubles.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. I offered to use the town you raised as an example. I said i would prove that the IRA committed over 100 offences against civilians and that 97% were against protestants - in a town where less than 30% of the population were protestant, the deal was that JM08 would then admit that the IRA were inherently sectarian - he then went to ground. i think the phrase may be
I Ran Away
Now if i provide such evidence, will you admit the IRA are inherently sectarian?

No downcow...because they weren't.

What you refuse to accept is that the protestant population were the oppressors for decades.
They could have been zoroastrians or fellow catholics.

If a catholic involved themselves with the security services or with oppression then they were treated the same.

Not nice...and shocking and awful that the lid was allowed to come off but that is Ireland's tragedy.

Sinbad_NI

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A large majority of the PIRA's killings were security forces, Protestant civilians were the least likely demographic to be killed during the troubles.

"Large majority".... AHH you should have said.

That's something to be very proud of alright

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A large majority of the PIRA's killings were security forces, Protestant civilians were the least likely demographic to be killed during the troubles.

Junkyard. you spin it as you like. I am quite sure you like Bonnie know well they sought out protestant targets. I was going to start giving examples but sure you know them well

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

"Large majority".... AHH you should have said.

That's something to be very proud of alright

I take no pride or satisfaction in what the PIRA did, a lot of it was truly wicked, and the people who did it should be tried for war crimes.

I wish the Troubles had never happened, I don't think there was any glory in it and I think it was a huge waste of life and caused terrible civic trauma.

It's important to challenge Downcow's hyperbole.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If a catholic involved themselves with the security services or with oppression then they were treated the same.

Not nice...and shocking and awful that the lid was allowed to come off but that is Ireland's tragedy.

This is very true, because the 3% catholics the IRA attacked in castlewellan were attacked because they had associated themselves with the security forces. Thats 100% now.

At least Francie I actually believe you know the truth but are busy spinning. I worry about the likes of Junkyard because i think he is living in some fantasy land where he genuinely believes the IRA were not inherently sectarian.

Would you do us all a favour and PM him and tell him to wise up. he might listen to you

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

I was going to start giving examples but sure you know them well

I'm aware of them but the point I'm making is that the PIRA's primary motivation was the removal of British/NI security apparatus and the withdrawal of the British state.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

This is very true, because the 3% catholics the IRA attacked in castlewellan were attacked because they had associated themselves with the security forces. Thats 100% now.

At least Francie I actually believe you know the truth but are busy spinning. I worry about the likes of Junkyard because i think he is living in some fantasy land where he genuinely believes the IRA were not inherently sectarian.

Would you do us all a favour and PM him and tell him to wise up. he might listen to you

There you go extrapolating a 'victory' out of a post again. Incorrigible and disingnuous again.

You people spent decades oppressing people with the back up/blind eye of Britain and now want to make it out as a sectarian campaign when it was in fact an attempt to shake off the yoke of oppression.

It didn't matter what religion you were, you were just good old fashioned oppressors and imperialists.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There you go extrapolating a 'victory' out of a post again. Incorrigible and disingnuous again.

You people spent decades oppressing people with the back up/blind eye of Britain and now want to make it out as a sectarian campaign when it was in fact an attempt to shake off the yoke of oppression.

It didn't matter what religion you were, you were just good old fashioned oppressors and imperialists.

so is my 93 year-old friend an oppressor. He lives in castlewellan with his disabled daughter and he got his windows put in again just before xmas. He was/is in no 'arm of the state'. he is simply a protestant wanting to live his last days in the town he was born in. but republicans don't want him there because he is a prod

Mind you, by your previous theory, he is evidence that the IRA is not sectarian as he is still there !

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm aware of them but the point I'm making is that the PIRA's primary motivation was the removal of British/NI security apparatus and the withdrawal of the British state.

So if the UVF said their aim wa to stop ROI taking over their country and their remedy was to kill catholics because they supported ROI, that wouldn't be sectarian??

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

so is my 93 year-old friend an oppressor. He lives in castlewellan with his disabled daughter and he got his windows put in again just before xmas. He was/is in no 'arm of the state'. he is simply a protestant wanting to live his last days in the town he was born in. but republicans don't want him there because he is a prod

Mind you, by your previous theory, he is evidence that the IRA is not sectarian as he is still there !

My mother had her windows put in by a lad of the same religion as her.

He was a little scrote and got done by the courts.

There are scrotes everywhere downcow.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My mother had her windows put in by a lad of the same religion as her.

He was a little scrote and got done by the courts.

There are scrotes everywhere downcow.

The incident Downcow refers to is obviously sectarian francie.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

So if the UVF said their aim wa to stop ROI taking over their country and their remedy was to kill catholics because they supported ROI, that wouldn't be sectarian??

If those Catholics were in a paramilitary group? No, it wouldn't be sectarian.

If the Provos had started killing Protestants because they were unionists there would have been thousands and thousands of dead innocent Protestants.

I'm glad that didn't happen.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

The incident Downcow refers to is obviously sectarian francie.

Yes it is, and nobody denies that sectarian incidents happen. Downcow has spent most of this thread avoiding any responsibility for what happens around his 'wee country's' annual celebrations.

What hasn't been proven is that the IRA's campaign was sectarian. It simply wasn't.

downcow

RobMc59 wrote: »

The incident Downcow refers to is obviously sectarian francie.

The person i refer to (just one example) is a protestant who was never in any security related organisation, etc. He was a bus inspector. His home has been attacked four times by the IRA with bombs. It has been completely destroyed. The attacks continue to this day.
I just don't know why you cannot bring yourself to accept he was targeted by the IRA because he was protestant/unionist.

I completely accept my part in the conflict. I grew up desperately sectarian and thought the catholics/ira were out to get us. and yes, I watched the death of Bobby Sands etc with some satisfaction, I was very pleased when the SAS took out the eight terrorists in loughgal etc (little did i know they were set up by their own). What i have learned through spending lots of time with Catholics is that they were not all out to get us. in fact they were as afraid as we were. But I have been more convinced that ever that the IRA/sf and their supporters were out to get us and some still are. You are in denial

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If those Catholics were in a paramilitary group? No, it wouldn't be sectarian.

If the Provos had started killing Protestants because they were unionists there would have been thousands and thousands of dead innocent Protestants.

I'm glad that didn't happen.

Did Francie not PM you and tell you that both the UVF and the IRA killed many many people for no reason other than there religion. You are so out of touch

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Did Francie not PM you

I've never gotten a PM from Francie, what's that about? Some sort of Papist/Fenian conspiracy you're imagining is it Downcow?

both the UVF and the IRA killed many many people for no reason other than there religion.

The UVF/UFF/UDA/UDR certainly did kill hundreds and hundreds of innocent Catholics. Most of the PIRA's victims were in the security forces.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I've never gotten a PM from Francie, what's that about? Some sort of Papist/Fenian conspiracy you're imagining is it Downcow?




The UVF/UFF/UDA/UDR certainly did kill hundreds and hundreds of innocent Catholics. Most of the PIRA's victims were in the security forces.

This is just two of the brave ira`s victims Tom.And to add insult to injury they tried to say they left a warning which was a bare faced lie.https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/declassified-files-document-sets-out-how-ira-lied-about-warrington-bomb-warning-1001498

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

This is just two of the brave ira`s victims Tom.

Yes and here's a wee girl who was shot twice in the back by a British soldier, she was 12 and the soldier didn't do a day in jail.



The fact remains that most of the PIRA's victims were security forces.

timhenn

10-15 years

The PIRA killed over 1,000 members of the security forces. The british side killed over 1,000 innocents. Thems the facts.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Did Francie not PM you and tell you that both the UVF and the IRA killed many many people for no reason other than there religion. You are so out of touch

Your need to be the victim of some awful taig conspiracy is strong downcow.

You need to review that or the rest of your life is not going to be a happy one.

My family suffered as a result of the lid coming off in the north...a great deal..3 deaths and many ruined lives. Those who survived have put their lives back together and have rationalised what happened.

You need to do the same and 'victimhood' is not the way.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your need to be the victim of some awful taig conspiracy is strong downcow.

You need to review that or the rest of your life is not going to be a happy one.

My family suffered as a result of the lid coming off in the north...a great deal..3 deaths and many ruined lives. Those who survived have put their lives back together and have rationalised what happened.

You need to do the same and 'victimhood' is not the way.

That’s a laugh coming from the most oppressed guy on the boards.

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

That’s a laugh coming from the most oppressed guy on the boards.

I have to clean my laptop from the beer spat out laughing.

Never change downcow.

Hilarious

Sinbad_NI

timhenn wrote: »

The PIRA killed over 1,000 members of the security forces. The british side killed over 1,000 innocents. Thems the facts.

I’m not supporting any murders from any side.
Other posters are trying to justify IRA murders.

At the end of the day it’s up to the person that pulled the trigger or pressed the button. How they can be respected or explained is beyond me.

downcow

timhenn wrote: »

The PIRA killed over 1,000 members of the security forces. The british side killed over 1,000 innocents. Thems the facts.

You have a slightly warped sense of who is innocent and who is guilty.
Just to clarify- are you saying the off duty policeman who was shot in the back while with his family is guilty, while the ira man who’s family claimed he was in nothing who was shot is innocent?
Just trying to understand your rational.

Sinbad_NI

downcow wrote: »

You have a slightly warped sense of who is innocent and who is guilty.
Just to clarify- are you saying the off duty policeman who was shot in the back while with his family is guilty, while the ira man who’s family claimed he was in nothing who was shot is innocent?
Just trying to understand your rational.

Or the other favourite target. Long retired UDR men.
That obviously drove the political gain immensely.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

That’s a laugh coming from the most oppressed guy on the boards.

Well that reminds me of YET ANOTHER challenge made to your posting:

You never did show one post where I mentioned the famine.

You are throwing out accusations all around you but backing up none of them.

Some guy getting his windows broken by a scrote is now proof that 'the IRA is inherently sectarian' allegedly.

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Or the other favourite target. Long retired UDR men.
That obviously drove the political gain immensely.

Wars and conflicts are ugly things shocker ^^.

Name me one war or conflict were innocents weren't killed?
When you guys drop bombs from 10,000 feet in pursuit of 'justice' who gets killed and has their lives ruined typically?


Nobody stands over that kind of indiscriminate killing or 'justifies' it do they? Oh WAIT!!!

Sinbad_NI

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wars and conflicts are ugly things shocker ^^.

Name me one war or conflict were innocents weren't killed?
When you guys drop bombs from 10,000 feet in pursuit of 'justice' who gets killed and has their lives ruined typically?


Nobody stands over that kind of indiscriminate killing or 'justifies' it do they? Oh WAIT!!!

I’m not justifying any killing. You are!

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

I’m not justifying any killing. You are!

WHERE have I justified killing?

Not agreeing with you and downcow on the 'inherent' motivation is not 'justifying anything.