How long before Irish reunification?

ec18

timhenn wrote: »

No one fully understands the implications of you say but then go on to try to point out negative implacations.

I know and that's only off the top of my head. As for pointing out the negative implications, I've never heard of anything been a problem because there were too many positive implications

timhenn

10-15 years

ec18 wrote: »

I know and that's only off the top of my head. As for pointing out the negative implications, I've never heard of anything been a problem because there were too many positive implications

Who says there'll be any problems, remember this:

ec18 wrote: »

no one fully understands what the implications of it are.

RobMc59

10-15 years

timhenn wrote: »

Explain yourself man.

You probably post more negative,unsubstantiated crap about the UK than most.

ec18

timhenn wrote: »

No one fully understands the implications of you say but then go on to try to point out negative implacations.

timhenn wrote: »

Who says there'll be any problems, remember this:

Completely agree there might be no problems. But given the scope of change and what agreement would be required on it's unlikely that there will be no negatives for people on both sides. For example these are some of the areas that will need to be worked through,

• Health
• Welfare
• Pensions
• Passports
• Freedom of movement
• Taxes
• Farming/agri
• language
• flag
• what do we call the new country
• housing

maybe everything will be fine and there'll be nothing negative in it but given those areas are contentious internally for governments it's hard to imagine that everything will be positive and plain sailing.

That being said I'm not saying we shouldn't start or not attempt it because it's difficult. Just that I think it's a much more complex issue than sinn fein would have people believe and there needs to be a broader collection of voices involved rather than the traditional SF/DUP ones that are the extremes of the positions

Runaways

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

I don't think there will even be discussions on a UI down south until COVID-19 is over and we have recovered from the financial impact of the virus.

The two jurisdictions having two utterly different approaches to this crisis will actually help bring it about faster.

People in the republic being put at risk right now by NIs complete lack of testing. Only today NI health spokesman ‘we’re ramping testing up to 1000 a day!’

They aren’t and they can’t. They hav more deaths to scale than we do with a far bigger population.
So it would make more sense to have an all island strategy to all major events political and threatening such as brexit and corona.

But there was some party objected to both in both cases. Until it was too late and they ran to play catch up.

Can’t remember their name. DUP I think they were called.

timhenn

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

You probably post more negative,unsubstantiated crap about the UK than most.

You are rambling.

timhenn

10-15 years

ec18 wrote: »

Completely agree there might be no problems. But given the scope of change and what agreement would be required on it's unlikely that there will be no negatives for people on both sides. For example these are some of the areas that will need to be worked through,

• Health
• Welfare
• Pensions
• Passports
• Freedom of movement
• Taxes
• Farming/agri
• language
• flag
• what do we call the new country
• housing

maybe everything will be fine and there'll be nothing negative in it but given those areas are contentious internally for governments it's hard to imagine that everything will be positive and plain sailing.

That being said I'm not saying we shouldn't start or not attempt it because it's difficult. Just that I think it's a much more complex issue than sinn fein would have people believe and there needs to be a broader collection of voices involved rather than the traditional SF/DUP ones that are the extremes of the positions

This isn't about sf or the dup or anyone. There are positives in this for everyone and finding a solution for everyone on the island is in all our best interests.

jh79

timhenn wrote: »

This isn't about sf or the dup or anyone. There are positives in this for everyone and finding a solution for everyone on the island is in all our best interests.

Such as?

Skyfloater

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

*It doesn't matter how sensible or logical the argument for reunification is, or how big the majority in the south think that it can work out. A few days before a vote, there will be a couple of car bombs detonated in Dublin, Cork or wherever, and that will kill it stone dead.

*Apologies if mentioned before, but this thread is 400+ pages.

Runaways

10-15 years

Skyfloater wrote: »

*It doesn't matter how sensible or logical the argument for reunification is, or how big the majority in the south think that it can work out. A few days before a vote, there will be a couple of car bombs detonated in Dublin, Cork or wherever, and that will kill it stone dead.

*Apologies if mentioned before, but this thread is 400+ pages.

Seen it all now.

Tell us oh Nostradamus will it be yourself doing this or who exactly?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

You probably post more negative,unsubstantiated crap about the UK than most.

How dare he criticise the Lollipop Kingdom with all its be sunny uplands.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

ec18 wrote: »

Completely agree there might be no problems. But given the scope of change and what agreement would be required on it's unlikely that there will be no negatives for people on both sides. For example these are some of the areas that will need to be worked through,

• Health
• Welfare
• Pensions
• Passports
• Freedom of movement
• Taxes
• Farming/agri
• language
• flag
• what do we call the new country
• housing

maybe everything will be fine and there'll be nothing negative in it but given those areas are contentious internally for governments it's hard to imagine that everything will be positive and plain sailing.

That being said I'm not saying we shouldn't start or not attempt it because it's difficult. Just that I think it's a much more complex issue than sinn fein would have people believe and there needs to be a broader collection of voices involved rather than the traditional SF/DUP ones that are the extremes of the positions

No one thinks it won't be difficult. It it was easy it would be done by now.

What does your list have to do with anything? You literally could list every single aspect of life in the State and of course it will change.

But some changes will be merely administrative and others will require long-term planning.

But we have a while yet.

I'll give you a quick one that you might not be aware of, we were inextricably linked to the British banking and clearing system until very recently and as such, it was quicker (by days) to send money to a British account from an Irish one than to a fellow Eurosystem bank. That all changed with SEPA.

Now the work that happened to implement SEPA across the EU was huge, but I bet you and others didn't even notice that it had happened until one day we had SEPA.

(European banking has numerous great examples of massive systems' overhaul and their implementation)

And that's exactly how these things will happen. There will be very few big bang moments. And realistically only the upfront things like flags etc will get the main headlines.

Also, the country will be called Ireland. I mean, you for real?

PS. The NHS's biggest advantage is upfront cost for the end user. That's really it. And just saying "NHS" isn't sufficient a reason to stall something like a conversation around reunification and reunification itself.

ec18

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No one thinks it won't be difficult. It it was easy it would be done by now.

What does your list have to do with anything? You literally could list every single aspect of life in the State and of course it will change.

But some changes will be merely administrative and others will require long-term planning.

But we have a while yet.

Completly agree with you, the other poster was implying that that all we needed was for the north to vote in a border poll and hey presto

I'll give you a quick one that you might not be aware of, we were inextricably linked to the British banking and clearing system until very recently and as such, it was quicker (by days) to send money to a British account from an Irish one than to a fellow Eurosystem bank. That all changed with SEPA.

Now the work that happened to implement SEPA across the EU was huge, but I bet you and others didn't even notice that it had happened until one day we had SEPA.

(European banking has numerous great examples of massive systems' overhaul and their implementation)

I am far too familiar with SEPA unfortunately I still have the nightmares about the weeks leading up to the cut off in one of the irish banks :eek:

And that's exactly how these things will happen. There will be very few big bang moments. And realistically only the upfront things like flags etc will get the main headlines.

Also, the country will be called Ireland. I mean, you for real?

That's an easy assumption to make but some people might be attached to the republic? I don't know but these things can get muddy

PS. The NHS's biggest advantage is upfront cost for the end user. That's really it. And just saying "NHS" isn't sufficient a reason to stall something like a conversation around reunification and reunification itself.

Not suggesting that we delay was just trying to point out that it is a conversation that 'could' potentially take a long time and that we would to have a consensus built on both sides of the border and both sides in the north for it to be a successful transition. And that with the demographics changing in the north doesn't mean that a favourable border poll result for unification is guaranteed even in traditional republic areas. To paraphrase Rory Mc Ilroy, maybe they just wan't to be northern irish?

Skyfloater

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Runaways wrote: »

Seen it all now.

Tell us oh Nostradamus will it be yourself doing this or who exactly?

It doesn't have to be sophisticated, or even successfully detonate. The threat alone will change peoples minds quick enough. This reunification thing isn't really that important to most people.

timhenn

10-15 years

Skyfloater wrote: »

It doesn't have to be sophisticated, or even successfully detonate. The threat alone will change peoples minds quick enough. This reunification thing isn't really that important to most people.

Sure Nationalists can just threathen to bomb the place if reunification is not voted for. That'll change people's minds quickly and reunification will pass easily. Glad we sorted that mess out.

timhenn

15-20 years

timhenn wrote: »

Sure Nationalists can just threathen to bomb the place if reunification is not voted for. That'll change people's minds quickly and reunification will pass easily. Glad we sorted that mess out.

All joking aside,id be suprised if dissidents werent compiling lists of businesses/prominent no campaigners already across the 26 counties


Lads sneering at loyalists and talking up their violence,while not realising there isnt a parish in the state without a dissident

downcow

timhenn wrote: »

Any update on your research into what the CAIN website got wrong according to you? How many of the over 1,000 innocents killed by the british side were not actually innocent?

?

Firstly, I have already told you I hold the CAIN website in high regard and it is fairly accurate. But as I said there are mistakes, and as you know I dont make stuff up.
So here is the first case I looked up from the town that Francie keeps mentioning.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dyndeaths.pl

They have him out for a wee walk when the army shot him. The truth was very different. He was lying in wait, balaclava on and sniper rifle in had. He was preparing to take a shot at an RUC patrol when the army (following a challenge) shot him dead. He was the most notorious local IRA sniper of the era.
so, as i say, CAIN make mistakes

timhenn

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Firstly, I have already told you I hold the CAIN website in high regard and it is fairly accurate. But as I said there are mistakes, and as you know I dont make stuff up.
So here is the first case I looked up from the town that Francie keeps mentioning.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dyndeaths.pl

They have him out for a wee walk when the army shot him. The truth was very different. He was lying in wait, balaclava on and sniper rifle in had. He was preparing to take a shot at an RUC patrol when the army (following a challenge) shot him dead. He was the most notorious local IRA sniper of the era.
so, as i say, CAIN make mistakes

Your link doesn't work!

downcow

maccored wrote: »

cop on and stop minimising things. The black community in the US did use force btw

Of course they used force, as did many civil rights eg NI. My point was that they did not feel the need to set up a ruthless paramilitary to kill USA soldiers, police and civilians. If they had replicated the murdering the IRA done in NI they would have killed about 400,000 US citizens. But francie says it was needed

timhenn

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Of course they used force, as did many civil rights eg NI. My point was that they did not feel the need to set up a ruthless paramilitary to kill USA soldiers, police and civilians. If they had replicated the murdering the IRA done in NI they would have killed about 400,000 US citizens. But francie says it was needed

Did the US armed forces team up with members of the kkk to kill innocent black people? They would have killed 1 million black people if they replicated what the british side did here.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Firstly, I have already told you I hold the CAIN website in high regard and it is fairly accurate. But as I said there are mistakes, and as you know I dont make stuff up.
So here is the first case I looked up from the town that Francie keeps mentioning.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dyndeaths.pl

They have him out for a wee walk when the army shot him. The truth was very different. He was lying in wait, balaclava on and sniper rifle in had. He was preparing to take a shot at an RUC patrol when the army (following a challenge) shot him dead. He was the most notorious local IRA sniper of the era.
so, as i say, CAIN make mistakes

apologies for dodgy link use this and search Paul Magorrian https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/sutton/search.html

downcow

timhenn wrote: »

Did the US armed forces team up with members of the kkk to kill innocent black people? They would have killed 1 million black people if they replicated what the british side did here.

i think your maths is very dodgy there.

timhenn

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

apologies for dodgy link use this and search Paul Magorrian https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/sutton/search.html

You were claiming that they noted some people killed as innocent when they were not. Firstly:

14 August 1974
Magorrian, Paul (21) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot while walking through St Malachy's estate, Castlewellan, County Down.

You've provided a link to someone who wasn't noted as innocent.

Secondly, that dead is under disputed circumstances.

That goes down as a fail. Try again.

timhenn

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

i think your maths is very dodgy there.

I was just using your equations. Things aren't going very well for you.

maccored

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Of course they used force, as did many civil rights eg NI. My point was that they did not feel the need to set up a ruthless paramilitary to kill USA soldiers, police and civilians. If they had replicated the murdering the IRA done in NI they would have killed about 400,000 US citizens. But francie says it was needed

So the Blank Panthers didn't exist and weren't set up for self defence ... of course not. :rolleyes:

Your point doesn't really stand as you aren't comparing like to like. The IRA existed because of the loyalist and then british forces threats. If loyalists hadn't been so self centred, grabbing the land and making sure they kept power to themselves, none of it would have happened.

If you want to assign blame - which you seem to want to do - blame those who created the issues (the loyalists) rather than those reacting to it (the ira).

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Firstly, I have already told you I hold the CAIN website in high regard and it is fairly accurate. But as I said there are mistakes, and as you know I dont make stuff up.
So here is the first case I looked up from the town that Francie keeps mentioning.

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/cgi-bin/dyndeaths.pl

They have him out for a wee walk when the army shot him. The truth was very different. He was lying in wait, balaclava on and sniper rifle in had. He was preparing to take a shot at an RUC patrol when the army (following a challenge) shot him dead. He was the most notorious local IRA sniper of the era.
so, as i say, CAIN make mistakes

I mentioned the town as that is where you said you were from?

Have I got it wrong? Are you not from Castlewellan?

FrancieBrady

timhenn wrote: »

You were claiming that they noted some people killed as innocent when they were not. Firstly:

14 August 1974
Magorrian, Paul (21) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot while walking through St Malachy's estate, Castlewellan, County Down.

You've provided a link to someone who wasn't noted as innocent.

Secondly, that dead is under disputed circumstances.

That goes down as a fail. Try again.

It's an unbelievable fail actually.

How could you get it so wrong when it is written in black and white - Irish Republican Army (IRA)

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I mentioned the town as that is where you said you were from?

Have I got it wrong? Are you not from Castlewellan?

He's not from Castlewellan but I would wager that he's from near Drumaness though...

downcow

timhenn wrote: »

You were claiming that they noted some people killed as innocent when they were not. Firstly:

14 August 1974
Magorrian, Paul (21) Catholic
Status: Irish Republican Army (IRA), Killed by: British Army (BA)
Shot while walking through St Malachy's estate, Castlewellan, County Down.

You've provided a link to someone who wasn't noted as innocent.

Secondly, that dead is under disputed circumstances.

That goes down as a fail. Try again.

Timhen
wrong on both counts. You don't like it when your proved as wrong

show me where I claimed that CAIN noted some people killed as innocent when they were not.

You claimed they made no mistakes. the first person i checked was a mistake. I always admit when i am wrong, indeed i enjoy learning so like to be corrected, you should grow a set and accept you were wrong on both counts

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Timhen
wrong on both counts. You don't like it when your proved as wrong

show me where I claimed that CAIN noted some people killed as innocent when they were not.

You claimed they made no mistakes. the first person i checked was a mistake. I always admit when i am wrong, indeed i enjoy learning so like to be corrected, you should grow a set and accept you were wrong on both counts

Wow