How long before Irish reunification?

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I cannot see how the UK can return to normal politics, try as I might. Even if they get by Brexit, I think the damage has been done. Scotland will diverge away and northern Ireland can never trust a Tory government again.
They have more problems internally to worry about than re-friending the rest of Europe.

It must be difficult for you-do you want the demise of your lifelong nemesis in a no deal brexit but that may have fallout for Ireland? Or no brexit or a deal which is possibly better for Ireland although that's probably the end of any chance of a UI and worse still the UK may kick on which in turn may destabilise the EU.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

It must be difficult for you-do you want the demise of your lifelong nemesis in a no deal brexit but that may have fallout for Ireland? Or no brexit or a deal which is possibly better for Ireland although that's probably the end of any chance of a UI and worse still the UK may kick on which in turn may destabilise the EU.

TBF what's 'better for Ireland' is in the eye of the beholder. If Brexit doesn't do damage something else will. We bounce from one fiscal disaster to another with only the connected or 'too big to fail' coming out on top while the working tax payer gets abuse for being poor, sick, 'going mad' or 'partying'.
One of the proudest moments in my living memory was during the miner strikes when the Irish sent over money to the British workers desolated by Thatcher. Great symbol of camaraderie between decent people.
The 'enemy' is the same on both sides of the sea except your lot of Etonions lay claim to part of our province of Ulster.

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

It must be difficult for you-do you want the demise of your lifelong nemesis in a no deal brexit but that may have fallout for Ireland? Or no brexit or a deal which is possibly better for Ireland although that's probably the end of any chance of a UI and worse still the UK may kick on which in turn may destabilise the EU.

Mate northern ireland is one of poorest regions in northern europe and only getting worse.....in spite of all our problems...the free state is one of wealthiest states in the world


Whats better for ireland is to run its owm affairs...its pure ineptitude by british has let it get so bad

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

It must be difficult for you-do you want the demise of your lifelong nemesis in a no deal brexit but that may have fallout for Ireland? Or no brexit or a deal which is possibly better for Ireland although that's probably the end of any chance of a UI and worse still the UK may kick on which in turn may destabilise the EU.

There is fallout for Ireland whatever happens. The lesson we have learned imo is that all our eggs or the majority of them should not be in the basket that is the UK.
The gloss has worn off and the glass is beginning to crack and what we are seeing inside is that the room was a hall of mirrors all along.

Even with a deal, the damage is too severe now imo. I have many times posited the theory that we are watching the slow breakup of the UK...I am convinced it is now more than a theory. And what is more, I think it will be for the best for it's component parts.

IAMAMORON

I would drop the EU in the morning if it meant uniting this country, no bother.

Fact remains that the North are far better off away from the Brits and all their crap. If they could wake up to this they could actually start moving forward. The north would be far better off staying in the EU. They even voted to.

The only reason Brexit is an issue is because the DUP are using it as a tool of intransigence. As long as it is an issue it postpones all party government in Stormont and keeps them closer to Westminster. They are literally cutting off their own peoples' noses to spite their faces'. Awful stuff.

The north is far better off in the European Union and the whole world knows it. It is just a shame that the north got embroiled, not for the first time , in Britain's failure to look after it's people.

RobMc59

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I would drop the EU in the morning if it meant uniting this country, no bother.

Fact remains that the North are far better off away from the Brits and all their crap. If they could wake up to this they could actually start moving forward. The north would be far better off staying in the EU. They even voted to.

The only reason Brexit is an issue is because the DUP are using it as a tool of intransigence. As long as it is an issue it postpones all party government in Stormont and keeps them closer to Westminster. They are literally cutting off their own peoples' noses to spite their faces'. Awful stuff.

The north is far better off in the European Union and the whole world knows it. It is just a shame that the north got embroiled, not for the first time , in Britain's failure to look after it's people.

The only problem I see with your comments regarding dropping the EU is before the money and grants from the EU Ireland was a very different place to what it is now-do you think Ireland would be as successful without the input from the EU?-in addition to this the EU wouldn't make it easy to leave as can be seen with brexit.

dd973

20-30 years

Whenever documentaries are made there's always seems to be an emphasis on the embattled and beleaguered areas of the North such as peace wall interface areas in Belfast or dissident Republicans in Derry.

I'm no expert on the area having only visited but I'd wager that the contingent of 'small u Unionists' who'd be open to reunification and are comfortable in their Irishness in the same way Van Morrison or Eddie Irvine are is larger than we think, I've met a few in my time.

Belfast, Derry or towns like Larne or Ballymena apart life in much of the six counties is pretty indistinguishable from living down here. Even Central Belfast has taken on the hue of a regional Irish city with the normalisation of life there plus the presence of a growing confident and well educated Nationalist community factored in.

IAMAMORON

The EU are only using the border as leverage in Brexit discussions.

They couldn't care less if we were in the EU or not. At the end of the day all the EU is just a big trade agreement. Don't obfuscate that with basic human rights and pedantic unionist notions.

I would love to do the maths on EU grants in Ireland. We still owe their bondholders 204 Billion for some reason.

Irelands success has come about as result of gaining independence from an oppressive Britain which pillaged this country for hundreds of years. They treated our people like slaves and nearly starved us in the 1850's. North and South.

The EU has got nothing to do with it. The Irish people saved this country and will save it again today and in the future, of that I have no doubt.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The EU are only using the border as leverage in Brexit discussions.

They couldn't care less if we were in the EU or not. At the end of the day all the EU is just a big trade agreement. Don't obfuscate that with basic human rights and pedantic unionist notions.

I would love to do the maths on EU grants in Ireland. We still owe their bondholders 204 Billion for some reason.

Irelands success has come about as result of gaining independence from an oppressive Britain which pillaged this country for hundreds of years. They treated our people like slaves and nearly starved us in the 1850's. North and South.

The EU has got nothing to do with it. The Irish people saved this country and will save it again today and in the future, of that I have no doubt.

That is just nonsense and does not stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

I am Eurosceptic as I am skeptical of any governance (a healthy way to be imo) but I lived through joining the EEC and I can tell you, it made a massive difference to the country.

careless sherpa

Looks like Karen Bradley is looking at ways to 'celebrate' the creation of the statelet in 1922. Celebrating an absolute and utter disaster and failure is quite something.

IAMAMORON

Money and grants and handouts does not a country make.

It is the people that make up a country, there is a lot more to life than the economy.

James Brown

10-15 years

careless sherpa wrote: »

Looks like Karen Bradley is looking at ways to 'celebrate' the creation of the statelet in 1922. Celebrating an absolute and utter disaster and failure is quite something.

She's just an idiot who drew the short straw. She's an example of the high regard the Tories place on the DUP/N.I.

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Money and grants and handouts does not a country make.

It is the people that make up a country, there is a lot more to life than the economy.

Of course there is. But there isn't much you can do without investment and joining the EEC was the best one we ever made.

_blaaz

10-15 years

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Money and grants and handouts does not a country make.

It is the people that make up a country, there is a lot more to life than the economy.

If it wasnt for money NI wouldnt exist.....afaik at time of independance NI accounted for 40% of irish econmic output

Its why free state was so hamstrung and poor for so long after independance,the brits just kept part of country which would make the country econmically viable

blanch152

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FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical of a certain mindset. Try and pretend now that the Act Of Union represented the wishes of all the people of Ireland.

Don't go digging that hole Rob, do yourself a favour.

The Act of Union was passed democratically in accordance with the democratic processes of the time, among the most democratic in the world then.

Typical of a certain mindset to dismiss this.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

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The Act of Union was passed democratically in accordance with the democratic processes of the time, among the most democratic in the world then.

Typical of a certain mindset to dismiss this.

I am pretty sure some mindsets thought gerrymandering was ok too because it had been passed 'democratically'.

The Act of Union was not approved by anything like a 'democratic' process.

droidman123

"british" and "democracy" should never be used in the same sentance

FrancieBrady

droidman123 wrote: »

"british" and "democracy" should never be used in the same sentance

Shocking that there are still people around who steadfastly won't describe it as what it was - undemocratic and an act supported by the suppression of the people of the island.

eire4

blanch152 wrote: »

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The Act of Union was passed democratically in accordance with the democratic processes of the time, among the most democratic in the world then.

Typical of a certain mindset to dismiss this.

Or more like a heck of a lot of bribery passed the act of union as the more recently discovered British secret service papers show as well as some patronage and old fashioned intimidation.

droidman123

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Shocking that there are still people around who steadfastly won't describe it as what it was - undemocratic and an act supported by the suppression of the people of the island.

Their "democracy" was forced upon many countries, but there are none as blind as those who will not see.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Rob, just to be clear. The EU aren’t ‘making it difficult for the UK to leave’ or any country. There’s a a process and mechanism for any country that wishes to leave. None are held against their will. The UKs own stupidity and lack of leadership in either direction is what has it still chasing its own tail in this matter.


As for the UK being democratic?
You have several PM nomnees including Hunt only yesterday saying he would not allow Scotland to have a second referendum on independence.

But hey. ‘Will of the people’ when it comes to brexit right? Anyone who thinks the UK is a functioning democratic state is coddin themselves. It never was and certainly isn’t now.
A few thousand elderly white people will get to decide the next PM. Not the 70m population. That’s not democracy.

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Rob, just to be clear. The EU aren’t ‘making it difficult for the UK to leave’ or any country. There’s a a process and mechanism for any country that wishes to leave. None are held against their will. The UKs own stupidity and lack of leadership in either direction is what has it still chasing its own tail in this matter.


As for the UK being democratic?
You have several PM nomnees including Hunt only yesterday saying he would not allow Scotland to have a second referendum on independence.

But hey. ‘Will of the people’ when it comes to brexit right? Anyone who thinks the UK is a functioning democratic state is coddin themselves. It never was and certainly isn’t now.
A few thousand elderly white people will get to decide the next PM. Not the 70m population. That’s not democracy.

Brexit has exposed the con to those who couldn't see heretofore, that the 'Union' is anything but democratic. It is still and English centric monarchy that pays lip service to democracy.
Hunt doubling down on it will have consequences, it is almost as if he is goading the Scots to leave.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

That particular brand of English arrogance that’s totally blind and lacking any self awareness both from Hunt and previously Javid when he made the same sttement re Indy ref 2, is quite literally fuel for the SNP and ordinary Scottish people.

Imagine being a regular Scot with no particular skin in the game of opinion on independence, and hearing English Tory’s one of whom is about to become PM, saying ‘we won’t allow them have self determination.’

The fuse has been lit by the likes of Hunt. It’s going to blow up on their faces.

To say nothing of the even bigger blindness to the hypocrisy. ‘The Eu are holding us against our will and won’t let us leave!’


Ehhh lads. Are yis listening to yourselves at all?

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That particular brand of English arrogance that’s totally blind and lacking any self awareness both from Hunt and previously Javid when he made the same sttement re Indy ref 2, is quite literally fuel for the SNP and ordinary Scottish people.

Imagine being a regular Scot with no particular skin in the game of opinion on independence, and hearing English Tory’s one of whom is about to become PM, saying ‘we won’t allow them have self determination.’

The fuse has been lit by the likes of Hunt. It’s going to blow up on their faces.

To say nothing of the even bigger blindness to the hypocrisy. ‘The Eu are holding us against our will and won’t let us leave!’


Ehhh lads. Are yis listening to yourselves at all?

They basically went to Scotland before the referendum patted them on the head and promised all and sundry before asking them to be good little boys and girls and vote No. Then they f**ked them over.

If Scotland doesn't react to that, never mind Hunt's arrogance, and do the sensible thing...good luck to them, they deserve what the future holds tbh.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

This is what I been saying. Johnson is happily going to fvck the DUP over and dump Northern Ireland in order to deliver brexit. It’ll be framed as DUP are the problem, NI is a massive endless drain on the economy. Let the Republic deal with them as revenge for being so difficult and not doing what we them to in brexit.
It’s coming folks.

https://twitter.com/susmitchellsbp/status/1147608850905874432?s=21

RobMc59

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Rob, just to be clear. The EU aren’t ‘making it difficult for the UK to leave’ or any country. There’s a a process and mechanism for any country that wishes to leave. None are held against their will. The UKs own stupidity and lack of leadership in either direction is what has it still chasing its own tail in this matter.


As for the UK being democratic?
You have several PM nomnees including Hunt only yesterday saying he would not allow Scotland to have a second referendum on independence.

But hey. ‘Will of the people’ when it comes to brexit right? Anyone who thinks the UK is a functioning democratic state is coddin themselves. It never was and certainly isn’t now.
A few thousand elderly white people will get to decide the next PM. Not the 70m population. That’s not democracy.

I don`t blame the EU for not making it easy for the UK to leave-it`s common sense that if the UK is seen have an easy transition then others will want to leave which could result in the collapse of the EU which would be a bad thing for everyone in Europe imo so you are preaching to the converted ffs.
It`s also not rocket science that a hard,no deal brexit will probably result in Scottish independence and a UI referendum(Not sure Ireland could afford to pay for it with such a massive debt though).
If Britain remains or there is a deal there will be no UI referendum and Scotland will remain in the UK .
As francie pointed out,it remains to be seen if the UK can recover from the self inflicted damage over brexit-I believe it will but it will take time.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don`t blame the EU for not making it easy for the UK to leave-it`s common sense that if the UK is seen have an easy transition then others will want to leave which could result in the collapse of the EU which would be a bad thing for everyone in Europe imo so you are preaching to the converted ffs.
It`s also not rocket science that a hard,no deal brexit will probably result in Scottish independence and a UI referendum(Not sure Ireland could afford to pay for it with such a massive debt though).
If Britain remains or there is a deal there will be no UI referendum and Scotland will remain in the UK .
As francie pointed out,it remains to be seen if the UK can recover from the self inflicted damage over brexit-I believe it will but it will take time.

Again.
The Eu aren’t making it difficult for the uk to leave. It’s an agreed and established mechanism for all member states.

Please Refer to the utter sh!tshow in Parliament and then come back to me saying the Eu are making it difficult.

You’ve either blinkers on here or are just looking to blame anyone but

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don`t blame the EU for not making it easy for the UK to leave-it`s common sense that if the UK is seen have an easy transition then others will want to leave which could result in the collapse of the EU which would be a bad thing for everyone in Europe imo so you are preaching to the converted ffs.
It`s also not rocket science that a hard,no deal brexit will probably result in Scottish independence and a UI referendum(Not sure Ireland could afford to pay for it with such a massive debt though).
If Britain remains or there is a deal there will be no UI referendum and Scotland will remain in the UK .
As francie pointed out,it remains to be seen if the UK can recover from the self inflicted damage over brexit-I believe it will but it will take time.

The EU have given the UK an unreal deal though


Market access unhindered beyond regulatory level...its pure living in bubble fantasy land stuff that uk didnt accept it


If they crash out,it will be back to day one of negociations again

RobMc59

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Again.
The Eu aren’t making it difficult for the uk to leave. It’s an agreed and established mechanism for all member states.

Please Refer to the utter sh!tshow in Parliament and then come back to me saying the Eu are making it difficult.

You’ve either blinkers on here or are just looking to blame anyone but

Did you actually read my post?I never said the EU are making it difficult I said they are`nt making it easy and I don`t blame them-it`s not in their interests and would threaten the future of the EU.
As regards an established mechanism for leaving the EU-has anyone left before?Where did you get that interesting information from?

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They basically went to Scotland before the referendum patted them on the head and promised all and sundry before asking them to be good little boys and girls and vote No. Then they f**ked them over.

If Scotland doesn't react to that, never mind Hunt's arrogance, and do the sensible thing...good luck to them, they deserve what the future holds tbh.

I`d have thought as the UK is your lifelong nemesis,an independent Scotland is the last thing you`ed want to see francie as they won`t take any sh*te from anyone,least of all Ireland trying to steal their fish.