How long before Irish reunification?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I quite admire him as well but probably for different reasons.
In all my work with republican paramilitaries, I was always taken with their desire to debate and discuss with loyalist paramilitaries, And their easiness around them (and vice versa to a lesser degree).
They loved meeting ex loyalist paramilitaries and the more notorious and evil the better.
They dreaded meeting ordinary Protestants who had not been involved in killing their neighbours. I seen them sit and squirm, want out and even break down and cry when they were asked questions about the sectarian murder campaign, by ordinary people.
Yet I watched them debate/discuss with loyalist paramilitaries and they’d laugh and pat each other on the back and generally show understanding, affirmation and respect for each and be very comfortable in each other’s presence.
So it doesn’t surprise me that a few on here single out those loyalists involved in killing or planning the killing of their catholic neighbours for special admiration.

I guess if you go into the sex offenders wing of a prison there will be a level of respect and understanding among them, whether some were interested in boys and others in girls, or some in family or some in strangers.

Abusers are inclined to show understanding to other abusers. I guess that’s not a surprise.

Its more likely that in catholic christian teaching if you confess your sins and repent (confession) and do penance, you will be forgiven in this life - you don't have to wait until the next life as is the case with some protestant churches.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Its more likely that in catholic christian teaching if you confess your sins and repent (confession) and do penance, you will be forgiven in this life - you don't have to wait until the next life as is the case with some protestant churches.

I am unaware of that theology in Protestant churches. Maybe you would give us a link.
My understanding is quite the contrary. Forgiveness is instant in Protestant faith and between the individual and their god. No need to wait around for penance or the actions of another man.

But here I am not getting into attacking any faith. I am a great believer in respecting those with any faith or none.

Ps. I’ll not hold my breath for you to produce evidence of when all these republicans confess their wrongdoing

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I quite admire him as well but probably for different reasons.
In all my work with republican paramilitaries, I was always taken with their desire to debate and discuss with loyalist paramilitaries, And their easiness around them (and vice versa to a lesser degree).
They loved meeting ex loyalist paramilitaries and the more notorious and evil the better.
They dreaded meeting ordinary Protestants who had not been involved in killing their neighbours. I seen them sit and squirm, want out and even break down and cry when they were asked questions about the sectarian murder campaign, by ordinary people.
Yet I watched them debate/discuss with loyalist paramilitaries and they’d laugh and pat each other on the back and generally show understanding, affirmation and respect for each and be very comfortable in each other’s presence.
So it doesn’t surprise me that a few on here single out those loyalists involved in killing or planning the killing of their catholic neighbours for special admiration.

I guess if you go into the sex offenders wing of a prison there will be a level of respect and understanding among them, whether some were interested in boys and others in girls, or some in family or some in strangers.

Abusers are inclined to show understanding to other abusers. I guess that’s not a surprise.

You fairly jumped off the deep end there.

Impressive even by your bigoted standards.

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I am unaware of that theology in Protestant churches. Maybe you would give us a link.
My understanding is quite the contrary. Forgiveness is instant in Protestant faith and between the individual and their god. No need to wait around for penance or the actions of another man.

But here I am not getting into attacking any faith. I am a great believer in respecting those with any faith or none.

Ps. I’ll not hold my breath for you to produce evidence of when all these republicans confess their wrongdoing

Roman Catholics confess to their priest in a confessional box, not to the general public.


For some protestants, its as you say, up to yourselves and won't know until the next life when they meet their maker!



My point is that there is a belief within cultural catholics that if you turn your back on the crime, you will be forgiven. Someone like David Irvine is admired (and forgiven) for changing his ways.


Look up 'Road to Damascus' meaning.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

jm08 wrote: »

Roman Catholics confess to their priest in a confessional box, not to the general public.


For some protestants, its as you say, up to yourselves and won't know until the next life when they meet their maker!



My point is that there is a belief within cultural catholics that if you turn your back on the crime, you will be forgiven. Someone like David Irvine is admired (and forgiven) for changing his ways.


Look up 'Road to Damascus' meaning.

There's an irony here in that he'll need a Damascene conversion in order to allow himself to look up the meaning of it!

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Roman Catholics confess to their priest in a confessional box, not to the general public.


For some protestants, its as you say, up to yourselves and won't know until the next life when they meet their maker!

Hahaha
Thats very Catholic of you.
I would not dare be so arrogant as to suggest that I know until the next life when I meet my maker! Or even if there is a next life!
Although I can assure you there are prods who have the same arrogance as you and are absolutely sure they are sorted. Another similarity you have with Big Ian. Mind you I would have slightly more faith in their confidence as it is to do with an individual arrangement between them and their God - it's certainly not got anything to do with a man confessional box guaranteeing you that he has you sorted.

I actually didn't believe that Catholics still gave that power priest, but to my surprise I was wrong

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha
Thats very Catholic of you.
I would not dare be so arrogant as to suggest that I know until the next life when I meet my maker!
Although I can assure you there are prods who have the same arrogance as you and are absolutely sure they are sorted. Mind you I would have slightly more faith in their confidence as it is to do with an individual arrangement between them and their God - it's certainly not got anything to do with a man confessional box guaranteeing you that he has you sorted.

I actually didn't believe that Catholics still gave that power priest, but to my surprise I was wrong

For someone so cocksure, you're get surprised by a lot.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

For someone so cocksure, you're get surprised by a lot.

absolutely. i find life full of surprises

downcow

Fair play to you Francie for unequivocally condemning this, but the Shinners still can't utter the words - maybe they are to busy condemning Robin Swann.

Here's the bit from the assembly

The DUP's Jonathan Buckley then asks the minister about what "appears to have happened yesterday in County Tyrone" in relation to the "mass public gathering" at the funeral of former Sinn Féin councillor.

He says, "will she join with me in condemning this behaviour".

Ms Hargey says "this is a difficult time and people are dying from this virus".

She says people are losing "loved ones and losing loved ones they can't say goodbye to".

She says it's "important people adhere to public guidance" and says she thinks "people on the whole, people understand the reasons for it".

Pathetic again really

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Hahaha
Thats very Catholic of you.
I would not dare be so arrogant as to suggest that I know until the next life when I meet my maker! Or even if there is a next life!
Although I can assure you there are prods who have the same arrogance as you and are absolutely sure they are sorted. Another similarity you have with Big Ian. Mind you I would have slightly more faith in their confidence as it is to do with an individual arrangement between them and their God - it's certainly not got anything to do with a man confessional box guaranteeing you that he has you sorted.

I actually didn't believe that Catholics still gave that power priest, but to my surprise I was wrong

I don't really care what you believe - I'm just pointing out the differences that comes from New Testament teaching which catholics follow and that is to forgive.


Did you look up the parable of the conversion of St. Paul on the road to Damacus?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Fair play to you Francie for unequivocally condemning this, but the Shinners still can't utter the words - maybe they are to busy condemning Robin Swann.

Here's the bit from the assembly

The DUP's Jonathan Buckley then asks the minister about what "appears to have happened yesterday in County Tyrone" in relation to the "mass public gathering" at the funeral of former Sinn Féin councillor.

He says, "will she join with me in condemning this behaviour".

Ms Hargey says "this is a difficult time and people are dying from this virus".

She says people are losing "loved ones and losing loved ones they can't say goodbye to".

She says it's "important people adhere to public guidance" and says she thinks "people on the whole, people understand the reasons for it".

Pathetic again really

Are you still going on about that funeral last week? Jesus.

You'd be better off reading the RTÉ page you posted.

RobMc59

10-15 years

jm08 wrote: »

I don't really care what you believe - I'm just pointing out the differences that comes from New Testament teaching which catholics follow and that is to forgive.


Did you look up the parable of the conversion of St. Paul on the road to Damacus?

Don't all Christians,regardless of whether they're Catholic or Protestant follow the Bible?

landofthetree

Even with the rapid turnaround in employment and growth, Ireland still has one of the highest per capita debt levels in the world. Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures, published on Friday, show it equates to €44,365 for every man, woman and child in the State or nearly €90,000 for every worker in the economy

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-debt-44-365-is-owed-by-every-man-woman-and-child-in-the-state-1.3954806?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fireland-s-debt-44-365-is-owed-by-every-man-woman-and-child-in-the-state-1.3954806


Bertie and FF to thank for it. They killed any chance of a UI.

The debt will be even more by the years end.

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Don't all Christians,regardless of whether they're Catholic or Protestant follow the Bible?

They do. Different interpretations though (and why you have so many protestant churches). Some give more emphasis to New Testament teaching than to Old.

landofthetree

15-20 years

landofthetree wrote: »

Even with the rapid turnaround in employment and growth, Ireland still has one of the highest per capita debt levels in the world. Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures, published on Friday, show it equates to €44,365 for every man, woman and child in the State or nearly €90,000 for every worker in the economy

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-debt-44-365-is-owed-by-every-man-woman-and-child-in-the-state-1.3954806?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Feconomy%2Fireland-s-debt-44-365-is-owed-by-every-man-woman-and-child-in-the-state-1.3954806


Bertie and FF to thank for it. They killed any chance of a UI.

The debt will be even more by the years end.

A utd ireland would surely lower debt per person as it spread across more people?

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

I don't really care what you believe - I'm just pointing out the differences that comes from New Testament teaching which catholics follow and that is to forgive.


Did you look up the parable of the conversion of St. Paul on the road to Damacus?

JM08 Stop avoiding the question and tell us where you got the idea that protestant theology suggests that they would not find out if they were getting to heaven until after they die. A simple link from some reputable source will suffice

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

A utd ireland would surely lower debt per person as it spread across more people?

So now you want us to take on your debt. This project is fast falling apart

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So now you want us to take on your debt. This project is fast falling apart

You've never paid your way.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

JM08 Stop avoiding the question and tell us where you got the idea that protestant theology suggests that they would not find out if they were getting to heaven until after they die. A simple link from some reputable source will suffice

It would suit you better to acknowledge responses to your assertions from days ago rather then setting up today's strawman.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You've never paid your way.

NI has always paid it's way with its bravery and loyalty,especially during WW2 when it took an aerial pounding from the luftwaffe,along with the rest of the UK.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

NI has always paid it's way with its bravery and loyalty,especially during WW2 when it took an aerial pounding from the luftwaffe,along with the rest of the UK.

Oh dear God.

He's been run out of the COVID-19 thread and is here now.

---

Dublin got hit in WW2 as well don't ya know.

And I'm sure the UK were glad of the Donegal Corridor as well.

downcow

RobMc59 wrote: »

NI has always paid it's way with its bravery and loyalty,especially during WW2 when it took an aerial pounding from the luftwaffe,along with the rest of the UK.

......and while lights were left on by republicans on the east coast of ROI to guide in the bombers

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It would suit you better to acknowledge responses to your assertions from days ago rather then setting up today's strawman.

Bonnie. I will give straight answers to any concise questions but i cant be arsed responding to page long rambles

kilkenny31

10-15 years

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/northern-ireland-and-opinion-poll-1.3822016%3fmode=amp

It seems that on 58% of Catholics would want it. Which is still fairly low.

At the end of the day if you take the heart and the romanticism out of the United Ireland debate and get down to what the real issues should be.

1) Healthcare - A man earning the average wage in the North with a wife and a few kids, what happens if one of the kids gets sick ? Down here absolutely fleeced, up there free for the user.
2) Council/Property tax. Down here fleeced again in this regard with no services for the majority in return. Up there waste collection, free recycling centres are just two examples.

We need to work alot on life, rent, housing and cost of living here to get any undecideds to vote for a United Ireland.

On point 2 their council rates are far higher than our property tax. So you would easily cover bin charges with the difference.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie. I will give straight answers to any concise questions but i cant be arsed responding to page long rambles

So you'll just ramble on here instead.

I picked apart your assertions and you ran away. As always.

Then you've gone on and on about a funeral and have now moved on to religious rubbish.

You're a sham.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

NI has always paid it's way with its bravery and loyalty,especially during WW2 when it took an aerial pounding from the luftwaffe,along with the rest of the UK.

So did the people of Britain. But NI has never paid it's way. Some in NI make a virtue out of receiving so much from Britain, they have gotten so used to it.

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

JM08 Stop avoiding the question and tell us where you got the idea that protestant theology suggests that they would not find out if they were getting to heaven until after they die. A simple link from some reputable source will suffice

Tell me the theory as to how protestants know that they are going to heaven before they die?

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

NI has always paid it's way with its bravery and loyalty,especially during WW2 when it took an aerial pounding from the luftwaffe,along with the rest of the UK.

GB didn't give two ****s what happened to NI as the RAF didn't even try to defend Belfast from the Luftwaffe for those two bombings!



Nothing changes, does it when it comes to British care for Northern Ireland!

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So did the people of Britain. But NI has never paid it's way. Some in NI make a virtue out of receiving so much from Britain, they have gotten so used to it.

I think you may have missed the concept of a forum.
i asked you to provide some evidence for your claim that Catholic theology gives assurance of heaven but Protestant authority does not. That was a question. For you to respond with another question suggests you can't answer the one I asked.
So don't make silly claims in the future as you will probably be asked for evidence

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think you may have missed the concept of a forum.
i asked you to provide some evidence for your claim that Catholic theology gives assurance of heaven but Protestant authority does not. That was a question. For you to respond with another question suggests you can't answer the one I asked.
So don't make silly claims in the future as you will probably be asked for evidence

Wrong man downcow