How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

MON / SF changed their minds overnight. The only explanation in the absence of any revelations that night, is the optics of SF treating the north differently.

They changed because they were convinced that the UKs policy was looney tunes. As we all, including the UK eventually realised.
A fluid situation requires politicians who are able to change their mind's.
The idea that SF 'forgot' to take the Dublin side is nonsense here.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They changed because they were convinced that the UKs policy was looney tunes. As we all, including the UK eventually realised.
A fluid situation requires politicians who are able to change their mind's.
The idea that SF 'forgot' to take the Dublin side is nonsense here.

Francie, it was literally an overnight about turn. When i saw the tweet myself, i thought that won't go down well with the SF grass roots. Checked twitter the following morning and they had done a complete 180. Nothing of note happened that night.

jm08

20-30 years

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, it was literally an overnight about turn. When i saw the tweet myself, i thought that won't go down well with the SF grass roots. Checked twitter the following morning and they had done a complete 180. Nothing of note happened that night.

How do you know 'nothing of note' happened that night? Would a phone call from the Chief Irish Medical Officer have been something of note, for instance? Who do you think was following the right strategy - the UK (unlike most other countries in Europe), or Ireland, who was following WHO advice like most other countries in Europe?

purplepanda

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Not to mention the U boat refuelling...

The Billy Rackard book Hurling at the Dairy Door mentions the population cheering the local lads, Protestants & Catholics marching though Rathnure village before going to enlist at the British Army recruitment offices in Dublin at the start of WW2.

Later on he recalls the RAF & Lufwaffe fighting over Wexford countryside & the locals cheering on the RAF. Some of the German bombers crashed near the Blackstairs mountains.

The Luftwaffe even bombed Campile in Wexford & killed locals. There was hundreds of people who lost their lives in German bombing in Dublin & many ships were sunk in St Georges Channel & Irish Sea by U Boats & Luftwaffe with massive loss of lives.

I don't think anyone was guiding German bombers to Belfast, nor were they refuelling U Boats either. IRA espionage was pathetic during WW2, most spent the period locked up in prison & some IRA men were actually hung by the Irish government during the period.

My Grand Uncle lost his life in the Merchant Navy in a U Boat attack, I certainly know that most Irish people were not supporting Nazi Germany at the time.
Hundreds of thousands of Irish also went to work in England during the war, which allowed more UK military recruitment to the forces.

Yet we still have these unsubstantiated stories that many Irish people were aiding the Nazi's. :mad:

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

That's a great post PP. Keep that up.
The poster in question engages in ill informed reactionary guff, so I wouldn't be too concerned about him.

---

The poster, who loves Ireland, would do well to learn about the contribution and influence of the Rackards' on how hurling is played nowadays.

High fielding wouldn't exist but for him and Nicky and Bobby.

jh79

jm08 wrote: »

How do you know 'nothing of note' happened that night? Would a phone call from the Chief Irish Medical Officer have been something of note, for instance? Who do you think was following the right strategy - the UK (unlike most other countries in Europe), or Ireland, who was following WHO advice like most other countries in Europe?

Was there a phone call, i didn't see any mention of one on the news?

I prefer the Irish approach. The UK's approach was different to ours from the start. Are you saying that SF were happy to follow the UK up until the night they suddenly changed their mind?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A far more blistering article could be written about Arlene and the DUP's hatred of the Irish destroying the North. Not just around the pandemic either.

MoN and john O'Dowd have shown that they can change their minds when they see they are part of a macabre herd immunity experiment that even the Brits have volte faced from now and are busily trying to cover up and deny.

The PPE episode turned out to be a haughty scolding from Jim Allister about somebody making the mistake of using the wrong term. Moderate Unionism now accepts what actually happened.

And the funeral was a mistake and should not have happened.

So that is about it as far as Polley goes. He makes a similar job of turning it into a 'look at themuns hate filled rant' as yourself though. Well done on finding a like mind.

Has Arlene apologised for putting the entire island at risk yet? Is she going to dangerously and recklessly diverge again if we as an island come under threat?

I think this is where you are stuck Francie. “.... their everlasting binary inner monologue whispering in their ear that British is bad and Irish is good.”

downcow

jh79 wrote: »

Was there a phone call, i didn't see any mention of one on the news?

I prefer the Irish approach. The UK's approach was different to ours from the start. Are you saying that SF were happy to follow the UK up until the night they suddenly changed their mind?

Yes exactly. Michelle affirmed the uk position and the medical officer and then the very next day done a summersault. She had obviously been pulled into line by the Army Council

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Yes exactly. Michelle affirmed the uk position and the medical officer and then the very next day done a summersault. She had obviously been pulled into line by the Army Council

Have you got evidence that?

You've repeated it unchallenged now.

So come on, evidence. You know the rules. (Though I wish this thread was moved to Politics and the stringent rules applied)

jm08

20-30 years

jh79 wrote: »

Was there a phone call, i didn't see any mention of one on the news?

I think the issue at the time was that there were nine new cases overnight in Northern Ireland. According to RTE:

Last night she stood alongside Mrs Foster and agreed that such a move would be inappropriate based on medical advice given to the Stormont Assembly, but in a statement this morning, she changed that position.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0313/1122061-coronavirus-covid19-northern-ireland/

I prefer the Irish approach. The UK's approach was different to ours from the start. Are you saying that SF were happy to follow the UK up until the night they suddenly changed their mind?

They were following the advice of the UK Chief Medical Officer at the time (as was Boris & Co).


Do you have the same issue with Boris changing his mind as well and (nearly) copying what Ireland was doing? (or is it Boris was listening to the WHO instead of his own medical officers)?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Yes exactly. Michelle affirmed the uk position and the medical officer and then the very next day done a summersault. She had obviously been pulled into line by the Army Council

Michelle O'Neill said: "I said yesterday at the press conference, that we needed to keep this situation under review and that remains the position. But as of today many European countries have taken decisive action, they've taken robust action, particularly in terms of large gatherings, but also in terms of school closures.

"We have the situation now where in the south of Ireland, in Scotland and right across Europe outdoor gatherings of over 500 people have been cancelled and indoor gatherings of more than 100 people have been cancelled.

"I myself have spoken over the course of last night to many sport organisations and to many parents who are not sending their children to school today, to many people out there who are just very fearful about what is a very unclear situation across this island.

"People are rightly very concerned about the implications of Covid-19 for them and their loved ones.

Ms O'Neill said the fact that there was contradictory medical advice about the issue had created confusion for people trying to make the right decisions for themselves and their families.

"I believe that given that is the situation that we need to err on the side of caution," she said.

"I think we need to give people that surname, the reassurance they are looking for, in terms of a government approach.

"So I’m going to work with Executive colleagues, I will go to the North-South Ministerial Council meeting tomorrow, but it’s very clear in my mind that what we need to see is one approach across this island, one message that’s consistent, so as the public are not even more confused than what they are as we speak today."


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0313/1122061-coronavirus-covid19-northern-ireland/

RobMc59

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Yes exactly. Michelle affirmed the uk position and the medical officer and then the very next day done a summersault. She had obviously been pulled into line by the Army Council

She has more faces than the town clock and it's common knowledge even here in England that the army council say 'jump' and she says 'how high'!

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

She has more faces than the town clock and it's common knowledge even here in England that the army council say 'jump' and she says 'how high'!

England know that much?

Show us your proof so?

---

I think you need to take a step back here though.

Is your issue that she changed tack?

And if so, do you believe that because she changed earlier than the UKGovt did, that if anything she has been vindicated by that approach and as such, your issue is really that you don't like being proved wrong by a Shinner?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Have you got evidence that?

You've repeated it unchallenged now.

So come on, evidence. You know the rules. (Though I wish this thread was moved to Politics and the stringent rules applied)

Certainly. Ms O'Neill said: "We have a situation here in the north where we are not at the stage yet where that [closing schools] is a decision we want to take now."
She added: "We are guided by the science and the medical evidence that we have suggests that this is not the right decision at this time."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-51861722

But the Army Council nearly blew a fuse when they heard she had gone with the brits and that the exec was united


She confirmed schools would stay open at 11.45pm by mid morning next day she said they needed to follow the Irish and close. No new evidence had been supplied in the intervening period no matter how jm08 would like to scrape for a way out. Why not ask him for evidence of the changed advice between those to times. Or maybe it’s not really the truth you are after.
Sf are a disgrace on covid and that’s who thinks a UI would be a good thing

blinding

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

She has more faces than the town clock and it's common knowledge even here in England that the army council say 'jump' and she says 'how high'!

Surely they do it in Gaelic ! !

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Certainly. Ms O'Neill said: "We have a situation here in the north where we are not at the stage yet where that [closing schools] is a decision we want to take now."
She added: "We are guided by the science and the medical evidence that we have suggests that this is not the right decision at this time."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-51861722

But the Army Council nearly blew a fuse when they heard she had gone with the brits and that the exec was united


She confirmed schools would stay open at 11.45pm by mid morning next day she said they needed to follow the Irish and close. No new evidence had been supplied in the intervening period no matter how jm08 would like to scrape for a way out. Why not ask him for evidence of the changed advice between those to times. Or maybe it’s not really the truth you are after.
Sf are a disgrace on covid and that’s who thinks a UI would be a good thing

Have you got evidence that MON made her decision on foot of a decision of the army council?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

blinding wrote: »

Surely they do it in Gaelic ! !

Gaelic?

Weird use of phrase that. Is that the language that they speak in Eer-ruh?

blinding

10-15 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Gaelic?

Weird use of phrase that. Is that the language that they speak in Eer-ruh?

Do you not know the name of the Language of Our County ?

jm08

20-30 years

blinding wrote: »

Do you not know the name of the Language of Our County ?

Alan Titley, an Irish translator and Emeritus Professor of Modern Irish at University College Cork, has illuminated the distinction between the terms "Irish" and "Gaelic" in the following terms:

"Irish" is sometimes erroneously referred to as "Gaelic." The Irish language should never be referred to as "Gaelic" because doing so is historically, socially, formally, and linguistically wrong. "Gaelic" is now correctly applied to the principal historic language of Scotland, although it also was referred to (in English) as "Irish" for most of its history. The distinction is not subtle: "Irish" refers to the native language of Ireland, and "Gaelic" refers to the major native language of Scotland, although the term came into common usage only in the past two hundred years, or less.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

blinding wrote: »

Do you not know the name of the Language of Our County ?

Oh buddy. That whooshed right over your head didn't it?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Certainly. Ms O'Neill said: "We have a situation here in the north where we are not at the stage yet where that [closing schools] is a decision we want to take now."
She added: "We are guided by the science and the medical evidence that we have suggests that this is not the right decision at this time."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-51861722

But the Army Council nearly blew a fuse when they heard she had gone with the brits and that the exec was united


She confirmed schools would stay open at 11.45pm by mid morning next day she said they needed to follow the Irish and close. No new evidence had been supplied in the intervening period no matter how jm08 would like to scrape for a way out. Why not ask him for evidence of the changed advice between those to times. Or maybe it’s not really the truth you are after.
Sf are a disgrace on covid and that’s who thinks a UI would be a good thing

A number of new covid-19 cases in Northern Ireland overnight and conflicting advice been given to people by medical experts. Read what she said at the press conference as to why she changed direction.



I don't know what your problem is with this bearing in mind that no matter who decided that the schools & universities should be closed, because it was right to err on the cautious side. If it was the call of the Army Council, should you be grateful to them that they were trying to save lives, bearing in mind the age profile of unionists!

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

jm08 wrote: »

A number of new covid-19 cases in Northern Ireland overnight and conflicting advice been given to people by medical experts. Read what she said at the press conference as to why she changed direction.



I don't know what your problem is with this bearing in mind that no matter who decided that the schools & universities should be closed because it was right to err on the cautious side.

He's backed himself into a weird corner on this and won't let up. It's a classic DC trope at his stage.

His next trick will be to double down on what he has said so far today and in doing so manage to bring the IRA and apparent Nationalist sectarianism in again for the umpteenth time.

I bet you he still hasn't read my response to his posting of the RTÉ article from a few days ago. If he did he could have scurried home for a soda with his tail between his legs much faster.

jh79

jm08 wrote: »

Michelle O'Neill said: "I said yesterday at the press conference, that we needed to keep this situation under review and that remains the position. But as of today many European countries have taken decisive action, they've taken robust action, particularly in terms of large gatherings, but also in terms of school closures.

"We have the situation now where in the south of Ireland, in Scotland and right across Europe outdoor gatherings of over 500 people have been cancelled and indoor gatherings of more than 100 people have been cancelled.

"I myself have spoken over the course of last night to many sport organisations and to many parents who are not sending their children to school today, to many people out there who are just very fearful about what is a very unclear situation across this island.

"People are rightly very concerned about the implications of Covid-19 for them and their loved ones.

Ms O'Neill said the fact that there was contradictory medical advice about the issue had created confusion for people trying to make the right decisions for themselves and their families.

"I believe that given that is the situation that we need to err on the side of caution," she said.

"I think we need to give people that surname, the reassurance they are looking for, in terms of a government approach.

"So I’m going to work with Executive colleagues, I will go to the North-South Ministerial Council meeting tomorrow, but it’s very clear in my mind that what we need to see is one approach across this island, one message that’s consistent, so as the public are not even more confused than what they are as we speak today."


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0313/1122061-coronavirus-covid19-northern-ireland/

Nothing in that explains the sudden change (was it really only 12 hours??) in opinion by SF on how to handle this.

I'd say she got some bollocking from Mary Lou for this and the PPE debacle.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Nice to see both FG and FF are being realistic and setting up a "Reunification Unit" in the Taoiseach's Department.

A most welcome development. And certainly one that tempers my abhorrence at the idea of FF back near power.

RT&#201 wrote:

Establishment of united island 'unit' proposed in FG-FF joint document

The Fine Gael-Fianna Fáil joint policy document has proposed the establishment of a unit within the Department of An Taoiseach "to work towards a consensus on a united island".

Under a section entitled 'A Shared Island', the document states the unit will "examine the political, social economic and cultural considerations underpinning a future in which all traditions are mutually respected".

...





...

The document states that Covid-19 has "reinforced the need to protect public health for everyone on the island of Ireland" and that both parties will work to deepen and strengthen north-south health links as outlined in the recent Memorandum of Understanding.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0415/1130716-shared-island/

RobMc59

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

Nothing in that explains the sudden change (was it really only 12 hours??) in opinion by SF on how to handle this.

I'd say she got some bollocking from Mary Lou for this and the PPE debacle.

Her trying to make political gain from the current situation is sickening,although as she does`nt seem able to make any constructive contribution to things without SF/army headquarters approval is of little consequence at the end of the day.She should be viewed as another SF `superbrain` alongside paddy holohan who is another liability to SF.

eire4

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Nice to see both FG and FF are being realistic and setting up a "Reunification Unit" in the Taoiseach's Department.

A most welcome development. And certainly one that tempers my abhorrence at the idea of FF back near power.





https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0415/1130716-shared-island/

I was surprised to see this announced today. As much as I am not a fan of either FF or FG credit where its due this is a positive and correct step to take.

blinding

10-15 years

eire4 wrote: »

I was surprised to see this announced today. As much as I am not a fan of either FF or FG credit where its due this is a positive and correct step to take.

Is there any danger that these West Brits intend to Re-Unify with Britain ? ? :eek::eek:

eire4

blinding wrote: »

Is there any danger that these West Brits intend to Re-Unify with Britain ? ? :eek::eek:

Well in fairness they are the ones who technically declared Ireland a Republic in 1949 so a precedent is there. Again I am the last person to be singing their praises but you have to give credit where it is due.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Nothing in that explains the sudden change (was it really only 12 hours??) in opinion by SF on how to handle this.

I'd say she got some bollocking from Mary Lou for this and the PPE debacle.

Nothing explains them 'forgetting to align with Dublin if that was their motive.

That is what you are basically saying. A party that has an sinister green/ulterior motive forgot.

It's ridiculous.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Have you got evidence that MON made her decision on foot of a decision of the army council?

Well we have been advised by the security services in both UK and ROI that Sinn Fein take all their big decisions to the army council for direction.
.... Or did you miss that somewhere?