How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Are we going to get an answer to this one?

Are we going to get an answer to this at all?
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...postcount=7366
Quote:

Define this 'strong NI culture and identity' how is it distinct from the culture and identity that others on the island have?

ILoveYourVibes

How long before Irish reunification?

You mean how long until the next apocalypse?

mattser

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You mean how long until the next apocalypse?

The central offices on here are really painting a lovely picture of it. Peace & reconcilliation ??? They're havin a laugh :D:D

ILoveYourVibes

mattser wrote: »

The central offices on here are really painting a lovely picture of it. Peace & reconcilliation ??? They're havin a laugh :D:D

First covid then brexit i can't take any more apocalypses. I am only little!

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are we going to get an answer to this one?

Yeah. No problem. But I will expect you to tell us all what “Irish culture“ is. Is that fair?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Yeah. No problem. But I will expect you to tell us all what “Irish culture“ is. Is that fair?

Why would I need to do that? You made the claim...can you please tell us what this 'strong NI culture and identity' is?

Is it a secret or yet another thing you didn't mean to sound the way it does.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would I need to do that? You made the claim...can you please tell us what this 'strong NI culture and identity' is?

Is it a secret or yet another thing you didn't mean to sound the way it does.

Francie just before I do that. Can you tell me if you think there is such a thing as Irish culture and identity?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie just before I do that. Can you tell me if you think there is such a thing as Irish culture and identity?

Stop looking for security blankets...I didn't mention 'Irish culture'. You said that there was a 'strong NI culture and identity'.

What is it? You are either going to tell us or not. If it is strong, then it shouldn't be a big issue to point it out.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stop looking for security blankets...I didn't mention 'Irish culture'. You said that there was a 'strong NI culture and identity'.

What is it? You are either going to tell us or not. If it is strong, then it shouldn't be a big issue to point it out.

Francie I have no desire to enter another of you blind alleys. You are great at asking questions and then sniping at the answers, but hopeless at answering questions yourself. (Reminds me of a certain party of government in ni who like to play the opposition game, never offer much but complain about everyone else’s offers)

You don’t like equality sure you don’t.
So I’ll even skew it in your favour ie I’ll start. We both give brief points of the culture and identity we feel a belonging to. Couldn’t get fairer than that.
Unless your are afraid to. lol

I think We all know your answer - go on prove us wrong. Dare you, double dare lol

Over to you Francie

downcow

The shinners keep digging.
The unionist parties up north want restrictions relaxed at cemeteries to allow individuals wishing to visit their loved ones grave to be allowed to do so under strict social distancing procedures on grounds of compassion.
SF say no. Ok to go to Tesco’s, the off-licence, the pound shop etc and gather in confined space , but one person on a grave yard can’t happen.
This is in a fortnight where there have been a number of large republican gatherings at funerals.

I guess Michelle will have another visit from her bosses and somersault on this one in due course and a few posters on here will tell us there was new medical evidence produced.

Can sf never just drop the party politics and work for the good of the people.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I have no desire to enter another of you blind alleys. You are great at asking questions and then sniping at the answers, but hopeless at answering questions yourself. (Reminds me of a certain party of government in ni who like to play the opposition game, never offer much but complain about everyone else’s offers)

You don’t like equality sure you don’t.
So I’ll even skew it in your favour ie I’ll start. We both give brief points of the culture and identity we feel a belonging to. Couldn’t get fairer than that.
Unless your are afraid to. lol

I think We all know your answer - go on prove us wrong. Dare you, double dare lol

Over to you Francie

Ha ha ha..well what do you know, downcow makes a statement and the 'onus' is on me now!!! Ha ha ha.
Once again downcow makes a claim he won't back up...not once to my knowledge have I NOT answered a question.

But here we have somebody spouting proudly about a 'strong NI Culture and identity' and he isn't man enough to tell us what that is.

Why, I wonder? No doubt you will keep challenging me on something I didn't mention or reference to deflect away.

You know you cannot define a 'distinct NI culture and identity' downcow, that much is clear.

Ask anyone in the world to define the Irish culture and they will tell you what it is. Most, including me will include you and the Unionist tradition and the colonial aspects of our past as a part of that of that culture and identity.

Ask them to define a separate 'NI' identity and culture and not even you can define that.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha ha..well what do you know, downcow makes a statement and the 'onus' is on me now!!! Ha ha ha.
Once again downcow makes a claim he won't back up...not once to my knowledge have I NOT answered a question.

But here we have somebody spouting proudly about a 'strong NI Culture and identity' and he isn't man enough to tell us what that is.

Why, I wonder? No doubt you will keep challenging me on something I didn't mention or reference to deflect away.

You know you cannot define a 'distinct NI culture and identity' downcow, that much is clear.

Ask anyone in the world to define the Irish culture and they will tell you what it is. Most, including me will include you and the Unionist tradition and the colonial aspects of our past as a part of that of that culture and identity.

Ask them to define a separate 'NI' identity and culture and not even you can define that.

Haha Francie.
He says he has never not answered a question, while not answering a question. Only Francie.

Duck and dive all you like Francie. You tell us ‘anyone could define irish culture and identity’ haha but you refuse to do it.

The offer is still there Francie. I’ll give you my take on ni identity if you commit to giving us YOUR (that’s FRANCIE’s) take on Irish culture and identity

You are a funny guy

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Haha Francie.
He says he has never not answered a question, while not answering a question. Only Francie.

Duck and dive all you like Francie. You tell us ‘anyone could define irish culture and identity’ haha but you refuse to do it.

The offer is still there Francie. I’ll give you my take on ni identity if you commit to giving us YOUR (that’s FRANCIE’s) take on Irish culture and identity

You are a funny guy

Again I have to do this: READ CAREFULLY downcow.

I DID NOT mention 'Irish Culture'...there is therefore no onus on me and NEVER was to define Irish culture. If you are stuck there are 100's of sources on the internet so DEFINED is Irish culture and identity. Here are a few
https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/education/the-changing-identity-of-irish-and-irishness-in-a-global-context
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057%2F9780230238992_9
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/handle/2262/78132

YOU, mention a 'strong NI culture and identity' and have squirmed away, once again from telling us what that 'strong NI Identity and culture' is that makes you a distinct identity.

You can play games, poke fun etc etc...nothing will divert away from your cowardice here.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again I have to do this: READ CAREFULLY downcow.

I DID NOT mention 'Irish Culture'...there is therefore no onus on me and NEVER was to define Irish culture. If you are stuck there are 100's of sources on the internet so DEFINED is Irish culture and identity. Here are a few
https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/education/the-changing-identity-of-irish-and-irishness-in-a-global-context
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057%2F9780230238992_9
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/handle/2262/78132

YOU, mention a 'strong NI culture and identity' and have squirmed away, once again from telling us what that 'strong NI Identity and culture' is that makes you a distinct identity.

You can play games, poke fun etc etc...nothing will divert away from your cowardice here.

So you say you did not mention Irish Culture?

FrancieBrady 9.49am today verbatim
"Ask anyone in the world to define the Irish culture and they will tell you what it is".

Caught on again Francie!

And according to you the whole world knows but you won't tell us what you believe. And your statement ids clearly incorrect because I am asking you and you won't tell me what it is

and of course i am still up for us both having a go at describing our own

Hamsterchops

I've been listening to this United Ireland stuff for five decades now, and I still don't see it happening anytime soon.

They don't want it yet we persist in wanting them to be like us, taking them into our country, into our nation, into our culture....which is different to theirs.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So you say you did not mention Irish Culture?

FrancieBrady 9.49am today verbatim
"Ask anyone in the world to define the Irish culture and they will tell you what it is".

Caught on again Francie!

And according to you the whole world knows but you won't tell us what you believe. And your statement ids clearly incorrect because I am asking you and you won't tell me what it is

and of course i am still up for us both having a go at describing our own

You keep on deflecting...what an abject coward. You have a 'strong NI identity and culture'. But you are abjectly afraid to tell us what that is.

Again..READ CAREFULLY: The is NO ONUS on me to enter a comaprison game as I DIDN'T mention a 'strong Irish culture and identity'.

Keep it up, you are only underscoring your own cowardice.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You keep on deflecting...what an abject coward. You have a 'strong NI identity and culture'. But you are abjectly afraid to tell us what that is.

Again..READ CAREFULLY: The is NO ONUS on me to enter a comaprison game as I DIDN'T mention a 'strong Irish culture and identity'.

Keep it up, you are only underscoring your own cowardice.

Francie everyone can read the last few posts for themselves. No point in me repeating them.

The gauntlet was well and truly thrown down to you. We can all sit back now a see who the coward is

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie everyone can read the last few posts for themselves. No point in me repeating them.

The gauntlet was well and truly thrown down to you. We can all sit back now a see who the coward is

Bizarre attempt to shift the onus on to somebody else. Nothing but pure cowardice.

The reason I asked you in the first place was I believe there isn't a distinct strong NI culture and identity and knew you wouldn't be able to define it. You admirably proved me right.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reason I asked you in the first place was I believe there isn't a distinct strong NI culture and identity and knew you wouldn't be able to define it. You admirably proved me right.

I've only been to NI a few times, but it always strikes me that I'm entering a different country once I've crossed the border. A different vibe, the Orange order, Ulster-Britishness, different allegiance, A levels, the NHS, different currency, GBP,, the BBC, the monarchy, GSTQ & Brexit ....

A variation of the British identity, with a twist.

I would say that in the context of the UK, Northern Ireland is very distinct, and it also has a distinct identity from the ROI, does it not . . . .

armaghlad

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I've only been to NI a few times, but it always strikes me that I'm entering a different country once I've crossed the border. A different vibe, the Orange order, Ulster-Britishness, different allegiance, A levels, the NHS, different currency, GBP,, the BBC, the monarchy, GSTQ & Brexit ....

A variation of the British identity, with a twist.

I would say that in the context of the UK, Northern Ireland is very distinct, and it also has a distinct identity from the ROI, does it not . . . .

I would say the Ireland and the rest of British isles are quite similar culturally. In terms of identity politics, NI unionism is not to be found anywhere else in Britain. Their sense of Britishness and it’s manifestations are non existent outside of a few orange lodges in northern England and Scotland. I would say Irish culture in the north is no different to Irish culture in the south. Difference is we probably suffered a bit more for it

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I've only been to NI a few times, but it always strikes me that I'm entering a different country once I've crossed the border. A different vibe, the Orange order, Ulster-Britishness, different allegiance, A levels, the NHS, different currency, GBP,, the BBC, the monarchy, GSTQ & Brexit ....

A variation of the British identity, with a twist.

I would say that in the context of the UK, Northern Ireland is very distinct, and it also has a distinct identity from the ROI, does it not . . . .

Well as I already said i would see Orange culture/Unionism as uniquely Irish, just because overt expressions of it died out in most of the south, the OO still has branches in the south, still parade in the south and many Unionists are southern born as well. So even that isn't a uniquely NI thing even.

There is no distinct 'NI' culture or identity that I am aware of.

On a side note, I would see differences in regions across the island, I even wrote a paper in college on how the Western seaboard uses colour differently to the rest of us, but that is all within the scope of an Irish identity and culture.

So we will await with bated breath for this 'strong NI culture and identity' to be defined. If it truly is 'strong' then it shouldn't be a problem.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

They don't want it yet we persist in wanting them to be like us, taking them into our country, into our nation, into our culture....which is different to theirs.

You're 'they' too. This state was founded on the principle of a 32 County Republic, if you don't like it then come up with a vision for a permanently separated nation and stop appropriating the national flag, the anthem, our culture and our history.

Off you go and form a new state with a new name, new flag, different narrative on our history and so on. Align yourself with the like of Gregory Campbell, Ian Paisley, and Downcow there and see how far you get with it - it would be hilarious.

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're 'they' too. This state was founded on the principle of a 32 County Republic, if you don't like it then come up with a vision for a permanently separated nation and stop appropriating the national flag, the anthem, our culture and our history.

Off you go and form a new state with a new name, new flag, different narrative on our history and so on. Align yourself with the like of Gregory Campbell, Ian Paisley, and Downcow there and see how far you get with it - it would be hilarious.

Now now Mr Junkyard don't be so touchy, I'm not aligning myself with anyone, just my opinion that's all.

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're 'they' too. This state was founded on the principle of a 32 County Republic, if you don't like it then come up with a vision for a permanently separated nation and stop appropriating the national flag, the anthem, our culture and our history.

Off you go and form a new state with a new name, new flag, different narrative on our history and so on. Align yourself with the like of Gregory Campbell, Ian Paisley, and Downcow there and see how far you get with it - it would be hilarious.

The state may of been founded on the principle of a 32 county republic but the GFA changed all that.

SF et al accepted the legitimacy of the sovereignty of NI as part of the UK by signing up to the GFA. The South removed its claim to NI from the constitution. SF MLA' are part of the UK political structure sure MON even takes part in the COBRA meetings on COVID-19!

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The state may of been founded on the principle of a 32 county republic but the GFA changed all that.

SF et al accepted the legitimacy of the sovereignty of NI as part of the UK by signing up to the GFA. The South removed its claim to NI from the constitution. SF MLA' are part of the UK political structure sure MON even takes part in the COBRA meetings on COVID-19!

SF accepted the right of the majority to choose. They still, as far as I know, do not accept the legitmacy of British rule.
That is why they are still abstentionist.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

jh79 wrote: »

The state may of been founded on the principle of a 32 county republic but the GFA changed all that.

No it didn't. You cannot change the history of the state. It is what it is - if you don't like it reject it and come up with a new vision.

SF et al accepted the legitimacy of the sovereignty of NI as part of the UK by signing up to the GFA.

They advised the electorate to vote in favour of it as a means-to-an-end - that end being a United Ireland. In fact I don't think Sinn Fein signed the actual agreement that was the SDLP and UUP.

The South removed its claim to NI from the constitution.

It watered it down but it's still there. Here you go:

It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the
people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their
identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about
only by peaceful means

SF MLA' are part of the UK political structure sure MON even takes part in the COBRA meetings on COVID-19!

They have no choice but to participate as Britain is still in control of the northeast of our country.

eire4

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bizarre attempt to shift the onus on to somebody else. Nothing but pure cowardice.

The reason I asked you in the first place was I believe there isn't a distinct strong NI culture and identity and knew you wouldn't be able to define it. You admirably proved me right.

I will to an extent disagree with you. When I hear someone talking about the strong Unionist/N.Ireland culture I agree with them there is one. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people, July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.

FrancieBrady

eire4 wrote: »

I will to an extent disagree with you. When I hear someone talking about the strong Unionist/N.Ireland culture I agree with them there is one. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people, July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.

That isn't a 'NI culture and identity' though. Certainly, it's a part of it and an exclusive part of it too.

What is this 'strong NI culture and identity' that encompasses everyone, is the issue. One that is distinct from other cultures around it.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF accepted the right of the majority to choose. They still, as far as I know, do not accept the legitmacy of British rule.
That is why they are still abstentionist.

Well the GFA recognises it as legitimate.

i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

Are SF an a la carte pro GFA party?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Well the GFA recognises it as legitimate.

i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

Are SF an a la carte pro GFA party?

Which bit of this contradicts what I said?

the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority

It recognises the legitimacy of 'the choice' of the majority...nothing else is stated there.

This works both ways as there is no onus on Unionists to recognise the legitimacy of a UI, they just accepted to accept what the majority want too. Some though, as we found out here can not guarantee to remain peaceful.