How long before Irish reunification?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

jh79 wrote: »

Are SF an a la carte pro GFA party?

Remarkable lack of self-awareness on your part seeing as you only seem to be interested in your own interpretation of the GFA as it is patently clear that it most certainly isn't a prescription for permanent partition.

landofthetree

Today our government announced we will be adding 23billion to the national debt in 2020 and 14billion in 2021

So another 37billion on the national debt.

A UI is off the table for the foreseeable.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which bit of this contradicts what I said?



It recognises the legitimacy of 'the choice' of the majority...nothing else is stated there.

This works both ways as there is no onus on Unionists to recognise the legitimacy of a UI, they just accepted to accept what the majority want too. Some though, as we found out here can not guarantee to remain peaceful.

But the choice is wether the sovereignty of NI is with the UK or Ireland.

And if it works both ways surely both are legitimate.

Bit unfair to say SF only recognise the "choice (whatever vague meaning that has) but unionists have an onus to accept the sovereignty of a UI rather than the "choice".

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

But the choice is wether the sovereignty of NI is with the UK or Ireland.

And if it works both ways surely both are legitimate.

Bit unfair to say SF only recognise the "choice (whatever vague meaning that has) but unionists have an onus to accept the sovereignty of a UI rather than the "choice".

No I said Unionists only have to accept the wishes of the majority...there is no onus on them to accept the legitimacy of a UI. I previously accepted downcow could set up as many sepratist movements as he wanted. Long as he accepts they need a majority.

downcow

eire4 wrote: »

I will to an extent disagree with you. When I hear someone talking about the strong Unionist/N.Ireland culture I agree with them there is one. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people, July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.

Lol. That is just oozing republican prejudice. Such a sad analysis of the people you share this island with.
But sure if it keeps you happy and makes you feel superior, carry on

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That isn't a 'NI culture and identity' though. Certainly, it's a part of it and an exclusive part of it too.

What is this 'strong NI culture and identity' that encompasses everyone, is the issue. One that is distinct from other cultures around it.

You know how to find out Francie. Just tell us what this Irish culture that you talk of is, that apparently everyone in the world understands but you can’t explain.

Hubertj

If there ever is unification how long would it take to civilise them? No poxy marches, no punishment beatings, no bigotry, no terrorism, and so on? It would take generations.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which bit of this contradicts what I said?



It recognises the legitimacy of 'the choice' of the majority...nothing else is stated there.

This works both ways as there is no onus on Unionists to recognise the legitimacy of a UI, they just accepted to accept what the majority want too. Some though, as we found out here can not guarantee to remain peaceful.

Can’t be bothered searching back but pretty sure you argued I was anti gfa because I will not accept a UI as a final outcome if it happened. Sounds very like sf not accepting uk status now.
You can’t have it both ways

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No I said Unionists only have to accept the wishes of the majority...there is no onus on them to accept the legitimacy of a UI. I previously accepted downcow could set up as many sepratist movements as he wanted. Long as he accepts they need a majority.

Why should I accept they need a majority. That would suit you but won’t be happening.
We have already agreed that the likes of the Catalans do not need a majority of Spain.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Lol. That is just oozing republican prejudice. Such a sad analysis of the people you share this island with.
But sure if it keeps you happy and makes you feel superior, carry on

He's right though, there is no distinct 'Northern Ireland' identity - it's a divided society. In recent years the hateful spiteful leaders of Unionism just made it more divided by sneering and pettiness like this:

"Because of efficiency savings, the department will not be providing the Líofa bursary scheme in 2017. Happy Christmas and Happy New Year."

and trying to wrench the Irish people in the north out of the EU against their wishes which they will not do without consequences, some of which you've already had to face.

The absolute best way you can ensure NI stays under British jurisdiction is to embrace its Irishness but it's beyond you as your culture despises it.

downcow

Hubertj wrote: »

If there ever is unification how long would it take to civilise them? No poxy marches, no punishment beatings, no bigotry, no terrorism, and so on? It would take generations.

Well the last killing in Belfast a few weeks ago was a wee Roi drugs turf war acted out on streets of Belfast. Angels

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

He's right though, there is no distinct 'Northern Ireland' identity - it's a divided society. In recent years the hateful spiteful leaders of Unionism just made it more divided by sneering and pettiness like this:

"Because of efficiency savings, the department will not be providing the Líofa bursary scheme in 2017. Happy Christmas and Happy New Year."

and trying to wrench the Irish people in the north out of the EU against their wishes which they will not do without consequences some of which you've already had to face.

The absolute best way you can ensure NI stays under British jurisdiction is to embrace its Irishness but it's beyond you as your culture despises it.

Maybe junkyard you will be braver than Francie and tell us what this Irish culture is that I could embrace.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Maybe junkyard you will be braver than Francie and tell us what this Irish culture is that I could embrace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Ireland

Knock yourself out.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Can’t be bothered searching back but pretty sure you argued I was anti gfa because I will not accept a UI as a final outcome if it happened. Sounds very like sf not accepting uk status now.
You can’t have it both ways

I told you to go ahead and form a separatist movement when you mentioned it...that you had every right to do that.

I said as far as I know SF don't accept the legitimacy of British rule, their separatist movement (recognised as a legitimate one in it's aspiration by your current government BTW) is called Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Maybe junkyard you will be braver than Francie and tell us what this Irish culture is that I could embrace.

Still deflecting to hide your blushes...gas craic.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

He's right though, there is no distinct 'Northern Ireland' identity - it's a divided society. In recent years the hateful spiteful leaders of Unionism just made it more divided by sneering and pettiness like this:

"Because of efficiency savings, the department will not be providing the Líofa bursary scheme in 2017. Happy Christmas and Happy New Year."

and trying to wrench the Irish people in the north out of the EU against their wishes which they will not do without consequences, some of which you've already had to face.

The absolute best way you can ensure NI stays under British jurisdiction is to embrace its Irishness but it's beyond you as your culture despises it.

Tom,despite bickering along with many others here I love Ireland,it`s people and culture but whenever I`m in NI the people seem to have more in common with mainland Britain than Ireland imo.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Why should I accept they need a majority. That would suit you but won’t be happening.

You already have accepted that tenet if you are pro-GFA. Has the mask slipped again?

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,despite bickering along with many others here I love Ireland,it`s people and culture but whenever I`m in NI the people seem to have more in common with mainland Britain than Ireland imo.

In what way?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

whenever I`m in NI the people seem to have more in common with mainland Britain than Ireland imo.

How can people who live in Ireland have more in common with Britain than people in Ireland? Listen to yourself man. Say that out loud and listen to yourself.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I told you to go ahead and form a separatist movement when you mentioned it...that you had every right to do that.

I said as far as I know SF don't accept the legitimacy of British rule, their separatist movement (recognised as a legitimate one in it's aspiration by your current government BTW) is called Sinn Fein.

I am fine with the sf separatist movement. They have every right to go after it. And there is no onus on them to require a majority. If I had been them I would have campaigned for a simple island majority. Don’t know why they didn’t. Maybe they felt defeated

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Ireland

Knock yourself out.

You are doing a Francie. Posting endlessly long rambling articles. Just tell us in a couple of paragraphs what to means to you. Surely you know

RobMc59

10-15 years

Bowie wrote: »

In what way?

British ways,shops and even Catholics I`ve spoken to there are very British compared to Irish people imo.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am fine with the sf separatist movement. They have every right to go after it. And there is no onus on them to require a majority. If I had been them I would have campaigned for a simple island majority. Don’t know why they didn’t. Maybe they felt defeated

They do require a majority for a UI. It won't happen if there isn't one. Same as a Unionist separatist movement after a UI begins would require a majority to reverse the will of the people of the island, whose destiny is their own affair. (also signed up to by your current government and anyone who supports the GFA)

Hamsterchops

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,despite bickering along with many others here I love Ireland,it`s people and culture but whenever I`m in NI the people seem to have more in common with mainland Britain than Ireland imo.

I agree, and I said as much in a previous post.

And what's wrong with being plugged into the culture of the neighbouring island, specially if that's where your ancestors come from....

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

How can people who live in Ireland have more in common with Britain than people in Ireland? Listen to yourself man. Say that out loud and listen to yourself.

Tom,it`s just my opinion,I`m not saying there are`nt people there who would prefer to be Irish but many also identify as British.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I agree, and I said as much in a previous post.

And what's wrong with being plugged into the culture of the neighbouring island, specially if that's where your ancestors come from....

There are differences as there are differences between Cork and Monaghan. There is still NO definition of this elusive 'strong NI culture and identity'.

munsterlegend

RobMc59 wrote: »

British ways,shops and even Catholics I`ve spoken to there are very British compared to Irish people imo.

Sterling in the pockets I suppose. Most people are the same wherever you go i.e. talk about weather shopping or sport. When I was in Belfast in a mainly unionist area we were talking about golf and how it would be great to have an ‘Irish’ winner of the open in portrush. And that’s exactly how it turned out with even staunchly unionist portrush supporting a man rich in Irish gaa culture against an English golfer.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

You are doing a Francie. Posting endlessly long rambling articles. Just tell us in a couple of paragraphs what to means to you. Surely you know

Outside the stuff in front of your face like the language, the music, the dance, the literature, the art etc, it's the feeling of being at home when you get on an Aer Lingus plane regardless of where it is in the World.

It's the anti-colonial mindset - identifying with people who are involved in a struggle for liberation. It's the craic you feel in an Irish pub that you don't get anywhere else, it's the kinship, feeling of being part of a nation that is more like a very large extended family.

If you have to ask the question you probably wouldn't understand the answer - you have to be part of the Irish nation to truly get it. I could go on all night but I think you're just seeking to bang your Lambeg Drum and I think you're getting a wee thrill out of marching through 'our estate' if you know what I mean.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

British ways,shops and even Catholics I`ve spoken to there are very British compared to Irish people imo.

TBF, Tony Blair is a Catholic ffs.

You said, "I love Ireland,it`s people and culture but whenever I'm in N.I.."
You feel people in the north do not share Irish culture or share the traits of people in other parts of Ireland? It sounds like you only mix with unionists. That said even some of them consider themselves Ulster-Scots.
Your comment doesn't make much sense. If I go to an Irish community in England I could say the similar I suppose.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They do require a majority for a UI. It won't happen if there isn't one. Same as a Unionist separatist movement after a UI begins would require a majority to reverse the will of the people of the island, whose destiny is their own affair. (also signed up to by your current government and anyone who supports the GFA)

Nonsense. When was that ever a rule. Francie decides the geographical area that votes. There is a very strong case for the unionist people campaigning for a homeland. My goodness we have lived here for 400, 1000 maybe more years. We will not be giving up on that just because there is a majority in six counties that want us to. You tell us often how that is an area created which has no legitimacy.
Is there anyone on here that think one million unionists are going to wake up in a UI and think, ok they have won now, we have no country, sure let’s just through our lot in with the Jolly craicsters who have bombed and shot us for as long as we can remember?