How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are differences as there are differences between Cork and Monaghan. There is still NO definition of this elusive 'strong NI culture and identity'.

You know how to find out Francie. The gauntlet is down. Lol

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Outside the stuff in front of your face like the language, the music, the dance, the literature, the art etc, it's the feeling of being at home when you get on an Aer Lingus plane regardless of where it is in the World.

It's the anti-colonial mindset - identifying with people who are involved in a struggle for liberation. It's the craic you feel in an Irish pub that you don't get anywhere else, it's the kinship, feeling of being part of a nation that is more like a very large extended family.

If you have to ask the question you probably wouldn't understand the answer - you have to be part of the Irish nation to truly get it. I could go on all night but I think you're just seeking to bang your Lambeg Drum and I think you're getting a wee thrill out of marching through 'our estate' if you know what I mean.

I genuinely appreciate that very sound answer. And lots of what you outline is what I appreciate about your culture. And I do get it.
Thank you

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense. When was that ever a rule. Francie decides the geographical area that votes. There is a very strong case for the unionist people campaigning for a homeland. My goodness we have lived here for 400, 1000 maybe more years. We will not be giving up on that just because there is a majority in six counties that want us to. You tell us often how that is an area created which has no legitimacy.
Is there anyone on here that think one million unionists are going to wake up in a UI and think, ok they have won now, we have no country, sure let’s just through our lot in with the Jolly craicsters who have bombed and shot us for as long as we can remember?

Moderate Unionism downcow. They have agreed to accept the will of the majority. No funny clauses about separatist movements or independent NI's with only a unionist population.
Is this the new scheme? What politician in NI is backing this one?

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Moderate Unionism downcow. They have agreed to accept the will of the majority. No funny clauses about separatist movements or independent NI's with only a unionist population.
Is this the new scheme? What politician in NI is backing this one?

So an independent 6 counties? The unionist with no union with anything. Couldn’t make it up.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You know how to find out Francie. The gauntlet is down. Lol

You said there was a 'strong NI culture and identity'. You STILL haven't told us what that is, having been asked to do it.

I am not seeking a comparison game. Just back up what you said or we will take it that my suspicion is correct and you can't.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

So an independent 6 counties? The unionist with no union with anything. Couldn’t make it up.

I think downcow envisages a smaller number of counties actually. It is a weird final stand espoused by the likes of Willie Frazer too.

The British would of course have to do what even Brexit couldn't tempt them to do...break an international agreement to agree to that, as there would be no majority decision by the Irish people for it. Plus the fact that they may have learned a lesson from their last partition of the island.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Moderate Unionism downcow. They have agreed to accept the will of the majority. No funny clauses about separatist movements or independent NI's with only a unionist population.
Is this the new scheme? What politician in NI is backing this one?

Francie I have said many times. I back gfa and will fully abide by the outcome of a majority in both countries voting to unify. But when I wake up the next morning my countryless community will be strategising on how to get our country back. I thought you of all people would see that as an honourable objective

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

So an independent 6 counties? The unionist with no union with anything. Couldn’t make it up.

That’s very blinkered thinking. Lots of possible options to be explored eg What about the United Kingdom of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I have said many times. I back gfa and will fully abide by the outcome of a majority in both countries voting to unify. But when I wake up the next morning my countryless community will be strategising on how to get our country back. I thought you of all people would see that as an honourable objective

No problem at all. Knock yourself out when you get a majority decision to repartition the island.

How many counties do you want 6, 5, 3?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said there was a 'strong NI culture and identity'. You STILL haven't told us what that is, having been asked to do it.

I am not seeking a comparison game. Just back up what you said or we will take it that my suspicion is correct and you can't.

Francie. I have said I will do it if you will tell us what you feel the Irish culture you brag about is all about. I’ll even go first. Grow a set Francie and take a risk.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

That’s very blinkered thinking. Lots of possible options to be explored eg What about the United Kingdom of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Good to see you slowly moving to an all island solution.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Good to see you slowly moving to an all island solution.

You will find my bottom line has always been that I will not forfeit our country. I would prefer it stay part of the uk and don’t have the slightest doubt that it will. But I could consider it being part of any other group of countries. Eg independent and part of eu. An equal partner in a a two country union on this island. A partnership with Scotland. Maybe Scotland and Wales will leave and we’d be very content in an England/ni UK.
Have you any options or are you stuck on your pipedream ?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. I have said I will do it if you will tell us what you feel the Irish culture you brag about is all about. I’ll even go first. Grow a set Francie and take a risk.

Why should I do it? I didn't say anything about Irish culture originally. Nobody else needs it explained to them. You have been given multiple links to a world view of it. So it is a distinct recognised culture and identity. I broadly agree with all of those links and my view wouldn't differ.

Can you even link to one site where this 'strong NI culture and identity' is identified as a distinct one?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why should I do it? I didn't say anything about Irish culture originally. Nobody else needs it explained to them. You have been given multiple links to a world view of it. So it is a distinct recognised culture and identity. I broadly agree with all of those links and my view wouldn't differ.

Can you even link to one site where this 'strong NI culture and identity' is identified as a distinct one?

You should do it because you said everyone in the world can tell me what the Irish culture is but seemingly you can’t.
And also you would have more credibility going forward if you rose to the challenge and answered a question rather than always asking

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You will find my bottom line has always been that I will not forfeit our country.

How many times have you to be told...it isn't 'your' country anymore.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You should do it because you said everyone in the world can tell me what the Irish culture is but seemingly you can’t.
And also you would have more credibility going forward if you rose to the challenge and answered a question rather than always asking

Because I didn't look to make a comparison. That is your invention to deflect from saying what a 'strong NI culture and identity' is. Simple.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

You will find my bottom line has always been that I will not forfeit our country. I would prefer it stay part of the uk and don’t have the slightest doubt that it will. But I could consider it being part of any other group of countries. Eg independent and part of eu. An equal partner in a a two country union on this island. A partnership with Scotland. Maybe Scotland and Wales will leave and we’d be very content in an England/ni UK.
Have you any options or are you stuck on your pipedream ?

Pipedreams? You are coming up with ideas that have absolutely no relationship with reality. The GFA an international treaty sets out 2 options NI staying in the U.K. or a United Ireland. There isn’t any other option.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

You will find my bottom line has always been that I will not forfeit our country. I would prefer it stay part of the uk and don’t have the slightest doubt that it will. But I could consider it being part of any other group of countries. Eg independent and part of eu. An equal partner in a a two country union on this island. A partnership with Scotland. Maybe Scotland and Wales will leave and we’d be very content in an England/ni UK.
Have you any options or are you stuck on your pipedream ?

Pipedreams? You are coming up with ideas that have absolutely no relationship with reality. The GFA an international treaty sets out 2 options NI staying in the U.K. or a United Ireland. There isn’t any other option.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Pipedreams? You are coming up with ideas that have absolutely no relationship with reality. The GFA an international treaty sets out 2 options NI staying in the U.K. or a United Ireland. There isn’t any other option.

All downcows solutions are for the belligerent Unionist who will not accept the majority decision.

Paul_Crosby

James Connolly said a free Ireland means nothing if you replace the English upper class landlords with Irish upper class landlords, who cares about reunification when Ireland is ruled by center right neo-liberals who **** on the masses from a great height

Bernadette Devlin said it best "Be they unionist or nationalist, the politics of the people takes second place, one side flies the tricolour from the back of a van, the other flies a union jack, and he who proclaims his patriotism the loudest wins the election"

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

You will find my bottom line has always been that I will not forfeit our country. I would prefer it stay part of the uk and don’t have the slightest doubt that it will. But I could consider it being part of any other group of countries. Eg independent and part of eu. An equal partner in a a two country union on this island. A partnership with Scotland. Maybe Scotland and Wales will leave and we’d be very content in an England/ni UK.
Have you any options or are you stuck on your pipedream ?

Pipedreams? You are coming up with ideas that have absolutely no relationship with reality. The GFA an international treaty sets out 2 options NI staying in the U.K. or a United Ireland. There isn’t any other option.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Pipedreams? You are coming up with ideas that have absolutely no relationship with reality. The GFA an international treaty sets out 2 options NI staying in the U.K. or a United Ireland. There isn’t any other option.

Yes agreed they are the two options under gfa.
Should gfa UI be enacted then gfa is no more. Anyone can campaign for anything.

Paul_Crosby

There were unionist seperatist movements in the past but they had pretty much no support whatsoever among the loyalist people.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Yes agreed they are the two options under gfa.
Should gfa UI be enacted then gfa is no more. Anyone can campaign for anything.

Best of luck persuading a majority of Irish people to repartition the island.

Paul_Crosby

Here is a good documentary on the loyalist culture


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD0L8zana94

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

There were unionist seperatist movements in the past but they had pretty much no support whatsoever among the loyalist people.

Yeah agreed. The uk will always be the first option for unionists and a growing number of converting nationalists

eire4

downcow wrote: »

Lol. That is just oozing republican prejudice. Such a sad analysis of the people you share this island with.
But sure if it keeps you happy and makes you feel superior, carry on

ahh I always have to give you credit your really a top of the line troll. Some excellent projection in there with your comments on superiority as well. Brilliant stuff really.

downcow

eire4 wrote: »

ahh I always have to give you credit your really a top of the line troll. Some excellent projection in there with your comments on superiority as well. Brilliant stuff really.

Here is what you said eire4. I hope when you reread it you are embarrassed at you sectarian, bigoted, analysis of your neighbours. I wouldn’t dare say such stuff about my southern friends.

“.....When I hear someone talking about the strong Unionist/N.Ireland culture I agree with them there is one. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people, July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.”

Pretty nasty stuff!

RobMc59

10-15 years

Bowie wrote: »

TBF, Tony Blair is a Catholic ffs.

You said, "I love Ireland,it`s people and culture but whenever I'm in N.I.."
You feel people in the north do not share Irish culture or share the traits of people in other parts of Ireland? It sounds like you only mix with unionists. That said even some of them consider themselves Ulster-Scots.
Your comment doesn't make much sense. If I go to an Irish community in England I could say the similar I suppose.

I don't care whether a person is Catholic or Protestant ,my wife is Catholic and so was my Father.
You make a very good point about people seeing themselves as Ulster Scots.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Here is what you said eire4. I hope when you reread it you are embarrassed at you sectarian, bigoted, analysis of your neighbours. I wouldn’t dare say such stuff about my southern friends.

“.....When I hear someone talking about the strong Unionist/N.Ireland culture I agree with them there is one. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people, July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.”

Pretty nasty stuff!

Let's break it down and see if there is any truth in it, with respect to your offerings here downcow.

1. IMHO what they say is a euphemism for a protestant parliament for a protestant people,

You constantly get caught out referring to NI as 'our wee country', 'if you think a million Unionists are going to accept the 'end of our country'. You constantly try to play the Protestant people of NI as the main victims...conveinently forgetting what was done up until the lid came off and that Protestant parliament was opposed.

2. July 12th bonfires and marching etc which ultimately are all about triumphalism and the domination of one group over another.
The above could be the raison d'etre for the existence of the body you oppose and hate - The Parades Commission, the very body that has stood strong against expressions of dominance and triumphalism and hate. SO successful has it been that Unionism can now proclaim (and does without a hint of irony or shame) that the majority of it's marches pass off without incidence. The bonfire orgies of hate and bigotry are still an annual issue though.

3. It is about longing for a return to that and a fear of becoming a minority in a country and within a culture they have repressed/discriminated against for so long that they fear there will be turn around on them.

This was expressed just yesterday when you, yourself toured these entire islands to find a 'partner', 'union' or 'solution' other than the natural one with the rest of the people on this island. Fear not to mention loathing writ large.

4. There won't but the fear they have is very real because they know what they did.”

Ian Paisley's late in life self awareness of what the Protestant state for a Protestant people had done.

So I am seeing not much in the way of sectarian bigoted analysis. Rather it is a cold hard look at the facts of history.