How long before Irish reunification?

Sinbad_NI

Fionn1952 wrote: »

This is definitely a weird swapped at birth thing.

Final test, what do you both think of ABBA?

Ah a bit before my time I'm afraid.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So I did promise I would come back on why I thought Northern Ireland had a specific culture/identity.
Firstly, of course as many have pointed out, every culture is a blend of all sorts of identities and cultures and Ireland, England and Scotland no doubt play a strong part in forming ours.
Culture is subtle, which is probably why most posters on here have run a mile from trying to describe Irish culture. So here goes.

Language - everyone who visits me from any English-speaking countries remark on our vocabulary. This includes friends from ROI. A few examples are the constant use of the word ‘wee’. I am sure if you have been here and e.g. went into a restaurant you’ve been asked to ‘take a wee seat’, ‘here’s a wee menu’, ‘would you like a wee drink’ ..and after you have eaten, ‘would you put your wee card in the wee machine and put your wee number in’.
We are always getting ourselves into a ‘situation’, and I don’t know down in ROI if you would, coup a cow late at night. And if you were told, your wean is a quare lad, would you be happy?
Of course I could go on and on with words many of them linked to Ulster scots, but used by nationalists and unionists alike in Northern Ireland.

Food - I was down in the Republic recently with a bus load of Northern Ireland people and we were baffled to find out, after leaving the pub, that no chippy done a gravy chip. Maybe the locals were winding us up, but they said they had never heard of the like, and as for a half-and-half, no chance. In fact they even had another name for the chippy, i cant remember, was it the chippers?
The Ulster fry, in my view is far superior to any fry available anywhere else in these islands, and quite different. It is a constant disappointment for me, when I get a fry set in front of me in either England or ROI - actually an English and ROI fry are far more alike

Music - this does split a little bit across the communities, and of course the whole marching band scene is quite unique to Northern Ireland - in the style that we do it. Both communities have it but I accept it is much stronger in the unionist community. For many young people growing up they have the same aspiration to join their local marching band as young Americans would have to join their baseball team. We also clearly have the Irish music scene, and I have no idea if it is the same across all the island, but I do understand that we have our own form of Irish language in the North - not sure if that is correct?

People from Northern Ireland also clearly have the shared history of living through a conflict and divided society. Something which I think both communities here understand, and are marked by, in a very different way than Britain or ROI.

Sadly we also have that inbuilt ability to work out which community someone comes from.
I’m not sure whether Northern Ireland is the only place in these two islands were people young and old alike, need to think about what clothes they are wearing in relation to where they are going, so as not to wind up, or maybe purposely to wind up, other members of the community.
And also the awareness that because we are a certain religion then there are many places we cannot go safely - thats something fairly unique i would think

I have concentrated on some examples of shared culture/identity, but of course the two communities here share something else, and that is that we also have our own distinct identity stuff within our communities, I often hear ROI people talking about northerners in a way to emphasise their difference from the rest of Ireland, irrelevant of community background.

I think it was evident during removal of the British forces stuff from the GAA that our wee country was very different from the rest of Ireland. And with regard to specific unionist identity we have lots of stuff people in ROI don’t get, and massively misunderstand.

I don’t want to write an essay here, all I am doing is meeting a request to backup a simple statement I made that Northern Ireland has a strong identity/culture.

Hope that helps

As I thought this would be: A description of regional differences in the generality of Irish culture and identity.

With a little bit of Unionist nonsense thrown in...re: an Ulster fry. NI is not Ulster downcow.

So no 'strong NI culture and identity' at all. No stronger than a Cork or Galway identity and culture.
You can get gravy chips all over Ireland btw and different counties use different words...a wee girl from Cavan on Operation Transformation made herself famous using the word 'foosie' to describe a bun or treat. No-one in Dublin knew what she was on about.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought this would be: A description of regional differences in the generality of Irish culture and identity.

With a little bit of Unionist nonsense thrown in...re: an Ulster fry. NI is not Ulster downcow.

So no 'strong NI culture and identity' at all. No stronger than a Cork or Galway identity and culture.
You can get gravy chips all over Ireland btw and different counties use different words...a wee girl from Cavan on Operation Transformation made herself famous using the word 'foosie' to describe a bun or treat. No-one in Dublin knew what she was on about.

In fairness, the Ulster fry is mighty and glorious.

Do you get a soda farl in Monaghan, Francie?

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

In fairness, the Ulster fry is mighty and glorious.

Do you get a soda farl in Monaghan, Francie?

Absolutely.. I make them myself as part of the best Ulster Fry in the world!

My mum, a Donegal woman, would make them on the top of the range...no pan or pot...just drop them on the top. Oh for the taste of one of them again!

Fionn1952

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely.. I make them myself as part of the best Ulster Fry in the world!

My mum, a Donegal woman, would make them on the top of the range...no pan or pot...just drop them on the top. Oh for the taste of one of them again!

I'd put my Granny's white soda bread up against any. Made it myself recently, but a pale imitation.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'd put my Granny's white soda bread up against any. Made it myself recently, but a pale imitation.

Unless my Ma was your Granny, quit yer blethering!

blinding

10-15 years

Sure Ulster Unionists must Like / Love it in Ireland; they’d never have stayed so long if they didn’t like it here. They’ll go Nowhere and be Beside Themselves with happiness in a United Ireland !

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

There is a thread of truth running through what you say, but wildly exaggerated and overly graphic.
It was wrong though, but lets not start listing all the wrongs done to communities here - we know where that goes

There isn't a thread of truth mate, it is documented and video taped fact. I think Gerry Adams is a paedo protecting scumbag among other things but your assertion that he and Sinn Fein were the ones who started all of the trouble regarding Orange Order parades is absolutely bizarre!

the video is on youtube, so be careful calling it wildy exaggerated and overly graphic

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You also get scotch eggs in the chipper in the north but not in the south. The Ulster Fry (without doubt the finest breakfast fry in the world) isn't really a NI thing but an Ulster thing, in fact nearly everything you've written about spills over the border, even the unionist stuff to a lesser degree.

I agree Junkyard. Thats sort of inevitable.. My Da was from Donegal - 65 years in Co Down, but Donegal was always where his heart was. but he always said (and maybe some on here will say different, but in Donegal the dry stone walls are known as ditches and he said everywhere else he has every been a ditch was like a sheugh, but to his amazement we call dry stone walls in County down ditches eg 'the cow knocked the ditch down'. Any ditches anywhere else?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought this would be: A description of regional differences in the generality of Irish culture and identity.

With a little bit of Unionist nonsense thrown in...re: an Ulster fry. NI is not Ulster downcow.

So no 'strong NI culture and identity' at all. No stronger than a Cork or Galway identity and culture.
You can get gravy chips all over Ireland btw and different counties use different words...a wee girl from Cavan on Operation Transformation made herself famous using the word 'foosie' to describe a bun or treat. No-one in Dublin knew what she was on about.

I thought you'd be embarrassed to respond given your attempt at describing your culture. Do i take from what you are saying that there is no such thing as culture or identity anywhere?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I thought you'd be embarrassed to respond given your attempt at describing your culture. Do i take from what you are saying that there is no such thing as culture or identity anywhere?

You described regional variations in 'OUR' culture and identity as an island downcow.

Well done. Now take the blinkers off, have a look at the different regions and you'll get a grasp of the identity and culture we ALL share.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You also get scotch eggs in the chipper in the north but not in the south. The Ulster Fry (without doubt the finest breakfast fry in the world) isn't really a NI thing but an Ulster thing, in fact nearly everything you've written about spills over the border, even the unionist stuff to a lesser degree.

Ulster fry (food of the gods!)is usually on a breakfast here in the Liverpool area but not sure about the rest of the UK.

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

There isn't a thread of truth mate, it is documented and video taped fact. I think Gerry Adams is a paedo protecting scumbag among other things but your assertion that he and Sinn Fein were the ones who started all of the trouble regarding Orange Order parades is absolutely bizarre!

the video is on youtube, so be careful calling it wildy exaggerated and overly graphic

I did not say he started it. I said he worked hard to agitate it.

Look back at what you said and then link the video that proves it. ..and I'll not be as hard to provide evidence to as some on here.

I haven't checked the video, and i will freely admit if I am wrong. You said the marchers held up 5 fingers and chanted 5-0. My memory is that there were hundreds of marchers and one disgusting soul held up 5 fingers and no one chanted 5-0, but your video will clarify

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You described regional variations in 'OUR' culture and identity as an island downcow.

Well done. Now take the blinkers off, have a look at the different regions and you'll get a grasp of the identity and culture we ALL share.

So Francie you were scared to describe Irish culture, could you tell me about any culture that is not a regional variation?

eire4

Fionn1952 wrote: »

This is definitely a weird swapped at birth thing.

Final test, what do you both think of ABBA?

I am going to say yes to ABBA:o

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I did not say he started it. I said he worked hard to agitate it.

You said: the issues with marches were 'in the main' caused by SF activists under the direction of Gerry Adams'.

OWN what you say and stop the winkling out.

Sinbad_NI

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ulster fry (food of the gods!)is usually on a breakfast here in the Liverpool area but not sure about the rest of the UK.

Often with beans over there... disgrace!

Fried breakfast is much the same over all UK and Ireland. The fried breads are not as nice in England, Scotland and Wales though.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So Francie you were scared to describe Irish culture, could you tell me about any culture that is not a regional variation?

I was not a bit 'scared'. I said I wouldn't do it because I have no issue or need to define it and never said I would.

It has no relevance to the conversation here. What has relevance is the claims people make and whether they have any validity.

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

I did not say he started it. I said he worked hard to agitate it.

Look back at what you said and then link the video that proves it. ..and I'll not be as hard to provide evidence to as some on here.

I haven't checked the video, and i will freely admit if I am wrong. You said the marchers held up 5 fingers and chanted 5-0. My memory is that there were hundreds of marchers and one disgusting soul held up 5 fingers and no one chanted 5-0, but your video will clarify

The RUC assault was filmed not the 5-0, because that happened further down the road, but plenty of people saw it and heard it coming from more than one person, "one disgusting soul" maybe in your little fantasy land where an Ulster Fry and the word "wee" constitutes a unique culture. Your memory? So you were there were ya mate?

Paul_Crosby

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said: the issues with marches were 'in the main' caused by SF activists under the direction of Gerry Adams'.

OWN what you say and stop the winkling out.

He couldn't have said that surely, he's not that deluded :eek:

FrancieBrady

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

He couldn't have said that surely, he's not that deluded :eek:

Here's the quote of his words.

downcow wrote:

This is just ridiculous. You are agreeing yourself that the issues (which in the main were created by Sinn Fein activists under the direction of Gerry Adams) are very much ‘last century’

Paul_Crosby

Here is a quote from an article by that well known Sinn Fein sympathising organisation the BBC

"As the parade passed by, some taking part in the march, and many hangers-on, jeered at the local residents, and made "five-nil" hand signs. It was a turning point in relations between the residents and the organisation."

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said: the issues with marches were 'in the main' caused by SF activists under the direction of Gerry Adams'.

OWN what you say and stop the winkling out.

'in the main', 'agitate', call it what you like francie.

You are the most hate-filled person towards my community that i have came across on this forum. You twist and you spin and you are always right (in your eyes). You will never learn anything because you mind is so closed and you are so focused on winning petty wee arguments.
I have disagreed strongly with many people on here. and you know what, when i go away and reflect, sometimes (maybe often) they were right and i was wrong. but when i reflect on exchanges with you, i just think, sad old republican that knows his organisation done terrible sectarian things, and even worse, killed some of his comrades slowly as informers when it was actually the killers who were the informers. I guess thats hard to deal with, but thats not my fault or my community's fault.

I used to think i would like a pint with you to discuss some of this stuff, but I hope i never have the displeasure.

Paul_Crosby

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Here's the quote of his words.

How are you supposed to argue with a clown like that, I hope he's trolling I really do

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

'in the main', 'agitate', call it what you like francie.

You are the most hate-filled person towards my community that i have came across on this forum. You twist and you spin and you are always right (in your eyes). You will never learn anything because you mind is so closed and you are so focused on winning petty wee arguments.
I have disagreed strongly with many people on here. and you know what, when i go away and reflect, sometimes (maybe often) they were right and i was wrong. but when i reflect on exchanges with you, i just think, sad old republican that knows his organisation done terrible sectarian things, and even worse, killed some of his comrades slowly as informers when it was actually the killers who were the informers. I guess thats hard to deal with, but thats not my fault or my community's fault.

I used to think i would like a pint with you to discuss some of this stuff, but I hope i never have the displeasure.

Apologise for saying only one person was making five nil gestures if you are truly sincere

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

'in the main', 'agitate', call it what you like francie.

You are the most hate-filled person towards my community that i have came across on this forum. You twist and you spin and you are always right (in your eyes). You will never learn anything because you mind is so closed and you are so focused on winning petty wee arguments.
I have disagreed strongly with many people on here. and you know what, when i go away and reflect, sometimes (maybe often) they were right and i was wrong. but when i reflect on exchanges with you, i just think, sad old republican that knows his organisation done terrible sectarian things, and even worse, killed some of his comrades slowly as informers when it was actually the killers who were the informers. I guess thats hard to deal with, but thats not my fault or my community's fault.

I used to think i would like a pint with you to discuss some of this stuff, but I hope i never have the displeasure.

Nowt like a bit of invective when all else fails I suppose.
I don't 'hate' your community.
I hate disingenuous people who pretend to be what they are not. And I detest belligerence, whosoever is belligerent. Catholic, Protestant, Shinner, Loyalist, man or woman.
So yeh, maybe skip the pints.

Paul_Crosby

downcow I just checked with a protestant and former member of the British Army who was there that day, he said there was indeed more than one giving the 5 nil sign, the guy at the front worked in a butchers up the road and fair play the owner was an orangeman himself and sacked him the next day, but yeah, more than "one disgusting soul" I'm afraid

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Apologise for saying only one person was making five nil gestures if you are truly sincere

I am not a huge fan of the bbc getting this sort of stuff correct, but i will accept that it was fair for you to make the assumption that more than one done it. My memory is that one orangeman held up 5 fingers and he was subsequently chucked out of the Orange.

the hangers on. well i don't know. check the video and if you come back and say you can see more than one, i will trust your word and apologise

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

downcow I just checked with a protestant and former member of the British Army who was there that day, he said there was indeed more than one giving the 5 nil sign, the guy at the front worked in a butchers up the road and fair play the owner was an orangeman himself and sacked him the next day, but yeah, more than "one disgusting soul" I'm afraid

I think he is telling you porkies. Whats the chances you ask him that question and he just happen to be standing outside the bookies when it happened?
Thats not to say you are not correct - just to big a stretch for me that you ask someone and they happened to be there

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Fried breakfast is much the same over all UK and Ireland. The fried breads are not as nice in England, Scotland and Wales though.

No soda or potato bread on the fry down here in the South West - to their shame.