How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Britain diverging further and further away.

As per the Good Friday Agreement, the decision to call a border poll rests with Westminster, but the measure has largely been thought to be an unpopular one in Britain.

However, the results of a new YouGov survey have shown that, in principle, more Brits are supportive of a border poll taking place in Northern Ireland than against it by 36% to 25%. A further 39% responded that they didn’t know, showing a strong element of disinterest amongst the British public.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel

Interesting, further down that the 'strong NI culture and identity' isn't really being picked up either.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No soda or potato bread on the fry down here in the South West - to their shame.

No tatty bread? Travesty!

Fionn1952

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No tatty bread? Travesty!

What would you know, you're not even a Boxty county! At least with Downcow's Donegal blood he has a bit of that in him!

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

What would you know, you're not even a Boxty county! At least with Downcow's Donegal blood he has a bit of that in him!

My Da was a Fermanagh man and taught me to make it. Grate the auld potatoes (not a euphemism) every Good Friday in his memory. Fermanagh's a big boxty county too.

Sinbad_NI

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No soda or potato bread on the fry down here in the South West - to their shame.

That’s not good... next you’ll be telling me you have beans with it!

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Here is a quote from an article by that well known Sinn Fein sympathising organisation the BBC

"As the parade passed by, some taking part in the march, and many hangers-on, jeered at the local residents, and made "five-nil" hand signs. It was a turning point in relations between the residents and the organisation."

I searched for the video you had said existed to prove but i can't find it. I do accept now though that the reports i find all refer to hangers on chanting - so I was wrong - apologies. Mind grows dim after 30 years - or maybe we just remember what suits.

During my search though this popped up to again emphasise SF strategic decision to wind up their own communities around these parades https://www.irishtimes.com/news/former-ira-man-gives-support-to-orange-marches-on-ormeau-road-1.142559

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I searched for the video you had said existed to prove but i can't find it. I do accept now though that the reports i find all refer to hangers on chanting - so I was wrong - apologies. Mind grows dim after 30 years - or maybe we just remember what suits.

During my search though this popped up to again emphasise SF strategic decision to wind up their own communities around these parades https://www.irishtimes.com/news/former-ira-man-gives-support-to-orange-marches-on-ormeau-road-1.142559

Another story about SF backed up by the words of a 'former' member who is at odds with them. Never gets old really.
Even Queens disowned this man's 'work'.

Even if true, it in no way backs up what you claimed...even this guy references 'issues' with marches in his youth.

So maybe just withdraw the claim downcow...another losing wicket on that.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My Da was a Fermanagh man and taught me to make it. Grate the auld potatoes (not a euphemism) every Good Friday in his memory. Fermanagh's a big boxty county too.

You're talking to an Enniskillen native, Francie....I know it's a big boxty county! The reactions when I introduced the Meath end of the missus' family to it were spectacular.

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

I think he is telling you porkies. Whats the chances you ask him that question and he just happen to be standing outside the bookies when it happened?
Thats not to say you are not correct - just to big a stretch for me that you ask someone and they happened to be there

How insulting, I asked him because I know for a fact he was there, he lives on the road, he even knows the guy who fired the fella at the front who was doing it, McCreary, now you're starting to piss me off with your bollocks denying well known facts, what next you gonna say the Ra shot first on Bloody Sunday?

The video evidence I was referring to was of the RUC brutality, which I thought you were calling exaggerated, not the 5 nil, I never said the 5 nil was caught on tape. My family was there and not only witnessed the taunting and also got battered by the police, and brought to court when the RUC were revealed to be liars. Just like you were

One big part of your so called culture seems to be buying propaganda hook line and sinker

Now that youve accepted you were wrong, you can also apologise for calling that man a liar, a good protestant man who served in the British Army and did nothing but tell the truth, seemingly a foreign concept to you.

You need to stop ****ing talking mate, you can't just keep talking **** then saying "oh I apologise" when youre exposed as a liar

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

I searched for the video you had said existed to prove but i can't find it. I do accept now though that the reports i find all refer to hangers on chanting - so I was wrong - apologies. Mind grows dim after 30 years - or maybe we just remember what suits.[/url]

With you it is definately the latter, nice little snide remark btw, really shows your apology is sincere, you're really doing your cause a lot of good here. You remember what suits, others remember what actually happened.

The call for an apology was rhetorical, do not respond directly to me again, I feel soiled having interacted with you, you're a stain on the good protestant people of this region

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

You're talking to an Enniskillen native, Francie....I know it's a big boxty county! The reactions when I introduced the Meath end of the missus' family to it were spectacular.

I hated it at first...but it is an acquired taste. Very delicate and should be more widely known.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

That’s not good... next you’ll be telling me you have beans with it!

What about white pudding which seems popular in Irish and Scottish breakfasts.

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

How insulting, I asked him because I know for a fact he was there, he lives on the road, he even knows the guy who fired the fella at the front who was doing it, McCreary, now you're starting to piss me off with your bollocks denying well known facts, what next you gonna say the Ra shot first on Bloody Sunday?

The video evidence I was referring to was of the RUC brutality, which I thought you were calling exaggerated, not the 5 nil, I never said the 5 nil was caught on tape. My family was there and not only witnessed the taunting and also got battered by the police, and brought to court when the RUC were revealed to be liars. Just like you were

One big part of your so called culture seems to be buying propaganda hook line and sinker

Now that youve accepted you were wrong, you can also apologise for calling that man a liar, a good protestant man who served in the British Army and did nothing but tell the truth, seemingly a foreign concept to you.

You need to stop ****ing talking mate, you can't just keep talking **** then saying "oh I apologise" when youre exposed as a liar

My issue with your description of the day was the implication that lots of orangemen taunted the residents about the murders and also the graphic talk of blood running down the street.
That is why I said immediately that there was truth in it but it was exaggerated. I stand by that.
I have apologised about being unaware of the behaviour of hangers on.
You forgot to mention that it was only one Orangeman and that he was thrown out of the order for his actions that day.

I find it too much of a stretch of coincidence that you then go ask a friend who says, oh I was there on patrol that day and happened to be outside the bookies when this all took place. So I am not going to tell you lies and say that is not a stretch for me - of course it could be true, but it is an incredible stretch. I think if I recall I said, I Doubt or Think he’s telling you porkies, and I still do but as I have already said I can’t be certain - well neither can you for that matter.

My other problem is that your graphic explaination of it imply it was somehow worse than both communities done on each other day and daily, when in fact much worse happened on a weekly basis for 40 years.

Sinbad_NI

RobMc59 wrote: »

What about white pudding which seems popular in Irish and Scottish breakfasts.

Not to fussed about either black or white pudding TBH. Happy with or without. Can be tasty on some places, elsewhere can be dodgy enough.

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

My issue with your description of the day was the implication that lots of orangemen taunted the residents about the murders and also the graphic talk of blood running down the street.
That is why I said immediately that there was truth in it but it was exaggerated. I stand by that.
I have apologised about being unaware of the behaviour of hangers on.
You forgot to mention that it was only one Orangeman and that he was thrown out of the order for his actions that day.

I find it too much of a stretch of coincidence that you then go ask a friend who says, oh I was there on patrol that day and happened to be outside the bookies when this all took place. So I am not going to tell you lies and say that is not a stretch for me - of course it could be true, but it is an incredible stretch. I think if I recall I said, I Doubt or Think he’s telling you porkies, and I still do but as I have already said I can’t be certain - well neither can you for that matter.

My other problem is that your graphic explaination of it imply it was somehow worse than both communities done on each other day and daily, when in fact much worse happened on a weekly basis for 40 years.

I never said he was on patrol you absolute clown, I said he was there, he lives on the road

Oh and you want video evidence of blood running down the street?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dbjxwz2BQQ

5:50 in the video, guy holds his hands out to try and calm down the police, receives a baton to the head, go to 6:10 to see his blood pissing on the road as they drag him away, then he gets thrown down a hill

You are a contemptable and disgusting person and I feel filthy having interacted with you, do not respond to me again, you have embarrassed yourself so thoroughly in this thread not only denying facts about real people getting hurt, but trying to claim colloquialisms as part of "culture", I almost felt sorry for you when you scundered yourself because you seemed like a pretty genuine guy, I now see you are not.

Be gone you piece of filth and stop embarrassing the good protestant people with your bile

edit: Oh and my "graphic" (factual) explanation was not to imply it was worse than anything else that happened, it was in response to your absolutely ludicrous assertion that the main problem with the parades was Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams.

Please tell me you are an old fool going senile because that at least might, MIGHT offer some semblance of an excuse for your ignorance

FrancieBrady

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Not to fussed about either black or white pudding TBH. Happy with or without. Can be tasty on some places, elsewhere can be dodgy enough.

When it is good it is fabulous on any plate...when it is bad it can remind you off a sawmill and ruin your day!

Lovely on a homemade pizza by the way!

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

I never said he was on patrol you absolute clown, I said he was there, he lives on the road

Oh and you want video evidence of blood running down the street?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dbjxwz2BQQ

5:50 in the video, guy holds his hands out to try and calm down the police, receives a baton to the head, go to 6:10 to see his blood pissing on the road as they drag him away, then he gets thrown down a hill

You are a contemptable and disgusting person and I feel filthy having interacted with you, do not respond to me again, you have embarrassed yourself so thoroughly in this thread not only denying facts about real people getting hurt, but trying to claim colloquialisms as part of "culture", I almost felt sorry for you when you scundered yourself because you seemed like a pretty genuine guy, I now see you are not.

Be gone you piece of filth and stop embarrassing the good protestant people with your bile

edit: Oh and my "graphic" (factual) explanation was not to imply it was worse than anything else that happened, it was in response to your absolutely ludicrous assertion that the main problem with the parades was Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams.

Please tell me you are an old fool going senile because that at least might, MIGHT offer some semblance of an excuse for your ignorance

Well I still cant see the blood running down the street. It was a terrible time, these are terrible scenes, and terrible things were happening.
you are getting very angry with me for simply pointing out that you are exaggerating an already terrible situation that does not need exaggerated.
There had been a series of killings less than a fortnight before this parade, by the PIRA, three of which they took their victims away to remote areas and tortured them for some time before they murdered them - we just need to keep the horrors of this time in context

We will just have to agree to disagree on your friend, as I think what you are telling me now, is that he was a British Soldier living beside Sean Grahams Bookies in 1992 (and out watching the parade). I would give him a George Cross for that, but my knowledge of the British army is that they would not have allowed one of there members to live there in 1992 - but there is still a chance you are correct.

....and expressing lots of anger does not necessarily make you correct

downcow

downcow wrote: »

The shinners keep digging.
The unionist parties up north want restrictions relaxed at cemeteries to allow individuals wishing to visit their loved ones grave to be allowed to do so under strict social distancing procedures on grounds of compassion.
SF say no. Ok to go to Tesco’s, the off-licence, the pound shop etc and gather in confined space , but one person on a grave yard can’t happen.
This is in a fortnight where there have been a number of large republican gatherings at funerals.

I guess Michelle will have another visit from her bosses and somersault on this one in due course and a few posters on here will tell us there was new medical evidence produced.

Can sf never just drop the party politics and work for the good of the people.

As I expected sf are preparing to somersault. It was inevitable

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

As I expected sf are preparing to somersault. It was inevitable

And if it was the other way around you'd be calling it compromise.

Unionist politicians can barely bring themselves to admit that an Ireland-wide approach is the most rational way of dealing with the pandemic.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And if it was the other way around you'd be calling it compromise.

Unionist politicians can barely bring themselves to admit that an Ireland-wide approach is the most rational way of dealing with the pandemic.

They should be thanking their lucky stars that politicians can be persuaded to change tack or they would now be guinea pigs in a Tory eugenics experiment.

The 'good of the people' downcow says without a hint of irony, having been on here cheerleading the Tory policy at the beginning.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

And if it was the other way around you'd be calling it compromise.

Unionist politicians can barely bring themselves to admit that an Ireland-wide approach is the most rational way of dealing with the pandemic.

I am very supportive of people changing their minds. In normal circumstances I see it as a strength.
My problem with this is that Sinn Fein opposed the opening of cemeteries simply because it was being proposed by a Unionist. Now they are in the tricky position that their own community want to use the cemeteries and the Catholic Church are asking for some leeway.
People are gathering at the gates of cemeteries to offer prayers. One man the other day got impaled on the top of cemetery gates trying to climb over to visit his departed wife's grave.
It makes zero sense, and Sinn Fein know it, but their sheer bigotry would not allow them to vote along with the Unionists

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

y problem with this is that Sinn Fein opposed the opening of cemeteries simply because it was being proposed by a Unionist.

That's just a lazy guess...you cannot back that up either.

The same debates are happening here, about returns to normality gradually and what is safe and what is not. People are going to change their opinions based on the info and data.

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

Well I still cant see the blood running down the street. It was a terrible time, these are terrible scenes, and terrible things were happening.
you are getting very angry with me for simply pointing out that you are exaggerating an already terrible situation that does not need exaggerated.
There had been a series of killings less than a fortnight before this parade, by the PIRA, three of which they took their victims away to remote areas and tortured them for some time before they murdered them - we just need to keep the horrors of this time in context

We will just have to agree to disagree on your friend, as I think what you are telling me now, is that he was a British Soldier living beside Sean Grahams Bookies in 1992 (and out watching the parade). I would give him a George Cross for that, but my knowledge of the British army is that they would not have allowed one of there members to live there in 1992 - but there is still a chance you are correct.

....and expressing lots of anger does not necessarily make you correct

Im sorry mate was that a Sinn Fein hologram of that guy getting smashed in the head and his blood running in the street? I said a guy held his hands up to calm down the situation, and he got smashed in the head and dragged away as his blood ran onto the road, you said I was exaggerating... are you now denying that's what happens in the video?

Do you not tire of embarrassing yourself fella?

Paul_Crosby

And don't play whataboutery with me either son, Teebane, Kingsmill, Enniskillen, Droppin Wells, you name them, all acts of horrendous mass murder, I'm not asking for evidence on well known facts then offering facile apologies after I get proven wrong, I'm not saying something didn't happen then when provided video evidence of it saying "I still didn't see that happen" while accusing other people of bigotry

You say "as far as my knowledge goes that wouldn't happen" thats because what you know wouldn't fill a thimble mate, your rewriting of history is quite astounding

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Im sorry mate was that a Sinn Fein hologram of that guy getting smashed in the head and his blood running in the street? I said a guy held his hands up to calm down the situation, and he got smashed in the head and dragged away as his blood ran onto the road, you said I was exaggerating... are you now denying that's what happens in the video?

Do you not tire of embarrassing yourself fella?

What should be embarrassing is you trying to make a subtle change to what you said. Maybe you can explain why you have just changed "his blood ran through the street" to " his blood running in the street". Maybe your copy and paste is not working. Yes he was viciously hit in the head, yes his head was cut, but no his blood is not running through the street.
Yes it was a terrible situation, in terrible times, a vicious crowd of protesters, and the police trying to uphold the right of the marchers to go down the street. Very tricky stuff, no matter what side you are on.
The video of course is a PR video - I don't think even you would argue with that.
I had the pleasure (if you could call it that) of sitting in the protest groups office with about 30 Americans a few months after this happened. Even local Republicans that were with us were extremely uncomfortable with what they described as the menacing attitude of the 'main man' who I will not name here. These groups visited many places and they identify this place as somewhere they felt extremely uncomfortable asking questions, indeed intimidated.
I have visited Brendan McKenna on the Garvaghy Road and the Bogside Residents leader (it was like an irish version of Dominic), and we could all listen to those and feel comfortable in their company - even though I obviously disagreed with their position. But the main man on the lower Ormeau was a nasty piece of work - indeed an embarrassment to the Republicans in our group

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

And don't play whataboutery with me either son, Teebane, Kingsmill, Enniskillen, Droppin Wells, you name them, all acts of horrendous mass murder, I'm not asking for evidence on well known facts then offering facile apologies after I get proven wrong, I'm not saying something didn't happen then when provided video evidence of it saying "I still didn't see that happen" while accusing other people of bigotry

You say "as far as my knowledge goes that wouldn't happen" thats because what you know wouldn't fill a thimble mate, your rewriting of history is quite astounding

when did i say that paul? A wee link would remind me
I think almost everything has happened in our wee sectarian blood bath

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

What should be embarrassing is you trying to make a subtle change to what you said. Maybe you can explain why you have just changed "his blood ran through the street" to " his blood running in the street". Maybe your copy and paste is not working. Yes he was viciously hit in the head, yes his head was cut, but no his blood is not running through the street.
Yes it was a terrible situation, in terrible times, a vicious crowd of protesters, and the police trying to uphold the right of the marchers to go down the street. Very tricky stuff, no matter what side you are on.
The video of course is a PR video - I don't think even you would argue with that.
I had the pleasure (if you could call it that) of sitting in the protest groups office with about 30 Americans a few months after this happened. Even local Republicans that were with us were extremely uncomfortable with what they described as the menacing attitude of the 'main man' who I will not name here. These groups visited many places and they identify this place as somewhere they felt extremely uncomfortable asking questions, indeed intimidated.
I have visited Brendan McKenna on the Garvaghy Road and the Bogside Residents leader (it was like an irish version of Dominic), and we could all listen to those and feel comfortable in their company - even though I obviously disagreed with their position. But the main man on the lower Ormeau was a nasty piece of work - indeed an embarrassment to the Republicans in our group

Where was his blood running then? Yes the video was a PR video, they were all actors

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

I would give him a George Cross for that, but my knowledge of the British army is that they would not have allowed one of there members to live there in 1992

Right here, and why are you afraid of naming the main man on the lower ormeau? give me the name, PM it if you want, and I'll tell you if he was a nasty piece of work of not, because I bet I know more about him than you do, and as you see I'm not afraid to call out disgraceful acts from republicans, show some balls since you are incapable of showing any actual knowledge to this point

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Where was his blood running then? Yes the video was a PR video, they were all actors

I think we have done this one to death Paul. We will agree to differ.

His head was certainly bleeding, but his blood was certainly not running through the street.
I think anyone on here who watches the video will have no doubt that it is a PR production. That does not negate anything that happened, but viewers should be very aware that it is presenting one side in the worst possible light, and the other side as angels.
Other posters here only need to Google and they should have no difficulty finding the unsanitised version which will show what was happening a short time before.

....and remember the PIRA had taken 24 hours each to torture and kill three men 10 days before this

downcow

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Right here, and why are you afraid of naming the main man on the lower ormeau? give me the name, PM it if you want, and I'll tell you if he was a nasty piece of work of not, because I bet I know more about him than you do, and as you see I'm not afraid to call out disgraceful acts from republicans, show some balls since you are incapable of showing any actual knowledge to this point

Paul if you know anything about the Lower Ormeau at that time then you would know exactly who i am talking about