How long before Irish reunification?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Unbelievable. They are at it again.
I have just been sent photos of another big Sinn Fein funeral with big crowd around grave. This one is just a couple of miles from me.
If they ever get into power down there yous will rue the day.
This is the party who have fought against individuals visiting graves just because unionists proposed it.
https://www.facebook.com/644539442333831/posts/3105804972873920?sfns=mo

What has that got to do with Sinn Fein? Are they telling the people to attend the funeral?

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

What has that got to do with Sinn Fein? Are they telling the people to attend the funeral?

I guess the UUP's Robert Swann was only talking to the Shinners when he had to issue a statment calling on people to keep observing the lockdown.
It's a problem here and in the UK to get people to stay home excepr for exceptional reasons.

Of course you have the likes of the DUP looking for exceptions on vote grabbing emotive issues.

People need to stay home...no exceptions.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I guess the UUP's Robert Swann was only talking to the Shinners when he had to issue a statment calling on people to keep observing the lockdown.
It's a problem here and in the UK to get people to stay home excepr for exceptional reasons.

Of course you have the likes of the DUP looking for exceptions on vote grabbing emotive issues.

People need to stay home...no exceptions.

Yeah and the DUP would let every Tom,dick and Harry in from London or the rest of the U.K.. you think they would realise after Brexit that the north is fundamentally different to the rest of the U.K.

armaghlad

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Unbelievable. They are at it again.
I have just been sent photos of another big Sinn Fein funeral with big crowd around grave. This one is just a couple of miles from me.
If they ever get into power down there yous will rue the day.
This is the party who have fought against individuals visiting graves just because unionists proposed it.
https://www.facebook.com/644539442333831/posts/3105804972873920?sfns=mo

The loyalist obsession continues. I’ve seen these photos, doing the rounds among sad bàstards on twitter. Judge for yourself if it’s a big crowd.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

What has that got to do with Sinn Fein? Are they telling the people to attend the funeral?

They are refusing to condemn it, yet they have loads of energy to condemn the Health Minister. This is SF funeral number 5 that has had crowds and military style parade. Consistency is all i ask

downcow

armaghlad wrote: »

The loyalist obsession continues. I’ve seen these photos, doing the rounds among sad bàstards on twitter. Judge for yourself if it’s a big crowd.

I have photos if you tell me how to post them. Yes it is a big crowd. As I have seen many commenting, if this had been a loyalist parade then the PSNI would have been there with cameras and prosecutions would follow

armaghlad

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

I have photos if you tell me how to post them. Yes it is a big crowd. As I have seen many commenting, if this had been a loyalist parade then the PSNI would have been there with cameras and prosecutions would follow

Ok so what do you estimate? 100s? 1000s? It’s not rocket science, work it out yourself how to post photos.

downcow

armaghlad wrote: »

Ok so what do you estimate? 100s? 1000s? It’s not rocket science, work it out yourself how to post photos.

Certainly well north of 100

armaghlad

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Certainly well north of 100

Stop lying you absolute plonker

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

They are refusing to condemn it, yet they have loads of energy to condemn the Health Minister. This is SF funeral number 5 that has had crowds and military style parade. Consistency is all i ask

You expect Sinn Fein to condemn the mourners attending a funeral on the same day that he was being buried? And on a Sunday?



Seriously?


Just for the record, the death notices says:

Sean's remains will leave his late home on Sunday at 11.20 am
for private burial in the family burial ground Aughlisnafin. HOUSE AND FUNERAL PRIVATE PLEASE DUE TO COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS.

https://www.funeraltimes.com/seanfitzpatrick447224244

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Bonnie this is all getting a little frayed. I assure I made a genuine attempt to answer you.
I included the phrase ‘not verbatim’ as I had no desire to go hunting through the thread for my post and I expected you to feel accused of something again if I didn’t quote exactly. That’s all - nothing more sinister, I promise you.

You asked for a example of when an Irish government curtailed cultural expression. I went straight to one that stands out in my head and posted you a link.
This is a very clear example when the guards, who I regard as working for the Irish government, prevented loyalists completing their legal procession through either an unwillingness or inability to stand up to a small crowd of republican hoods acting illegally. I honesty can’t see why that does not meet the criteria of your request.
....and I did ask if you wanted further examples. I have no particular ones in mind but I am confident there are endless examples of Roi governments siding with the republican community up north and I can’t think of one example where they sided with the unionist community against nationalists.

I always try to answer with integrity and honesty.
If it helps you calm down let’s deal with my ‘peaceful’ comment. It was during a long discussion of many many comments. If I had it to do again I would not choose that phrase because of how it has been latched on to and interpreted.
I do know from experience living here that when things kick off it has the capacity to drag almost everyone into one or other camp (drumcree was a classic example - I am still shocked at how it left basically zero middle ground). So I was being real. I am not about to go out and shoot someone, but if we are taken over by the Irish state it is inevitable that it will head of on a similar trajectory as drumcree, the hunger strikes, etc.
So whilst I would not chose that phrase again, due to how it was interpreted , it still makes sense to me. If the new Irish government put up an Irish sign on my street, would I remove it? probably yes. would that be peaceful? probably not, would it be a violent action? that’s probably down to interpretation.
There would be no way that most unionists could avoid seeing this new ROI government as an occupying force. And the suggestion of how the local unionist community would react to being policed by the guards, was not a threat, just a statement of reality. They would be seen exactly the same as republicans see the British army and you see how raw that still is by Michelle’s comments.

Hope that provides some clarity and answers and removes some of you heat.

I'm assuming you never did answer this question I posited.

I'm not sure how au fait you are with the work of a police service but unlike the RUC, the Gardaí are there to protect all citizens of the State, including Loyalists. If you read about the day in question, they were not stopped from protesting, but merely encouraged and facilitated in moving the protest/march to outside the Dáil ensuring the participants' safety.

So, to misconstrue that as evidence that in a UI the Govt would clamp down on Unionist cultural expression is fanciful, and that's being generous.

So I'm accepting that at this stage you have ZERO evidence that this scenario may come to pass. We can move on.


---

Seems I have about 25 pages to catch up on so expect a barrage!!!

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

You just don’t get the gfa.
The one bit of genius with it was how it allowed a defeated ira to tell its people that it was a roadmap to a UI.
Gerry said he expected there would be a UI by 2016.
We are over 20 years on and a UI is no closer (indeed NI has been bought into by many nationalists) today than in 1998.
I voted for the gfa and still support the concept.
It’s like have a line in it that if the majority decide to only eat bread and water then we will adhere to that, when we know there is no chance it will happen. And if it did happen then we could work to convince people that we should consider a more enjoyable diet.

It’s the reason unionists would not sign up to Irish language act. Because that would probably happen.

If there was any chance of a UI then why would unionists have signed up to it? That’s a question Francie, Bonnie, fionn, et al

Because moderate unionists saw a shared future was more preferable than the Civil War that existed!

Seems a no-brainer to me.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say. And whilst I think the gfa was a nail in the coffin of a UI and don’t agree that it ended the pira campaign. The pira campaign was in very serious trouble. There own community were simply tired of it and made all the worse by the growing level of indescriminate loyalist retaliation eg attacks on innocent people in pubs.
Had the pira campaign never have happened I would not be so confident about a UI not happening.
I agree that I have no idea what future generations will decide, and apologies if I said otherwise.
The trend in people’s minds is away from a UI. The younger generation have, in the main, bought into ni more than uk or ireland. That’s why I say I could talk about a united island of two countries. Never thought I would consider that but I realise more and more we cherish ni first and we have such a strong culture and identity that it will survive in uk, a new island or some other arrangement. But, as I am sure people of Roi also feel about joining the uk, we wont be giving up our country to anyone, least of all a state that has wanted to absorb us for generations

It's not "YOURS" to give up though.

If the people vote for a UI that's the end of it.

It would serve you better to try and convince Nationalists of the benefits f the UK rather than looking down on their aspirations as invalid.

But it's nearly 100 years later and you still don't get it.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Well for whatever reason republicans right to march was upheld and loyalists wasn’t. We could argue all day about the reasons.

I would be really honest about how I feel about Willie Frazer but I fear a few on here will be wanting to latch on to every word is say and twist it to suit their agendas so there is not much room for real honesty on here But anyhow I’ll have a go and probably just ignore the disengenuous reply’s.

I have met willie several times. Always taking international visiting groups or local cross community groups to meet him. So I don’t know him outside that.

He always treated me and other visitors with total respect. And I brought him a very wide range of visitors including a SF mla (the first and I guess only one to sit in his office).

Just my take (apologies Willie if I am way off the mark)
Willie was hurting and that hurt was directed into anger. He took us on tours around his local area. Absolutely devastating stories of lives ruined, families destroyed, murder and torture. So intense in a small area that you could not help but be desperately moved. My heart went out to him and his people. I had empathy from experiencing the sectarian onslaught on my local community, but this was it multiplied by 10.
He covered the terrible hurt up with anger and courage that extended to almost a death wish.
His story goes back to being abused as a kid, day and daily because of his religion. Eg coming home from school and being stopped by the local lads who forced him to sing the sash and then through him in a thorn hedge. Through to family members being murdered by some of those same people as adults. I think 7 of his family were murdered.
I like him. He spoke to my feelings of welled up hurt that had developed into bitter sectarianism in me.
He took risks for me, and crossed some lines that he thought he couldn’t. eg sf in his office and other republicans and I always told him in advance who I was bringing (with their permission).
I wanted so much to help him journey to a better place and regret I didn’t devote energy to it.
(My view). He was a good man, a very good man. He was good craic and humorous. He was quite shy and not over confident. He was mannerly and respectful to all my guests, always. And he was very very angry with the ira.
I believe he had PTSD. Well he couldn’t not have it.

With regard to recent accusations. I honestly don’t know. Lots of people in this country moved guns about and had blood on their hands.
Several republicans on here hold paisley in esteem. I’ve met him to and id rather have a dialogue with willie any day of the week for integrity, honesty, etc

On many occasions some of the international guest were openly crying as he told his story. I would have visited every group imaginable with these groups and the visit to willie’s was by some distance the most shocking for people (or maybe that was my prejudiced wishful thinking,who knows)

I if I be really honest I was proud that he was one of my people and had became a friend of sorts.

Rest easy Willie.

Loyalists were under the guard of the Gardaí for their safety. You're being willingly ignorant here and as for you lionising of that charlatan Frazer... You're ridiculous.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I've been listening to this United Ireland stuff for five decades now, and I still don't see it happening anytime soon.

They don't want it yet we persist in wanting them to be like us, taking them into our country, into our nation, into our culture....which is different to theirs.

It's their country too.

That's the whole bloody point.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Except keeping the toaster in a drawer or cupboard. Your lot are mad for that and it terrifies me!

My mother did the same and I never knew it was weird or a "prod" thing until I was in my late teens.

:D:D:D:D

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

They are refusing to condemn it, yet they have loads of energy to condemn the Health Minister. This is SF funeral number 5 that has had crowds and military style parade. Consistency is all i ask

Kinda surprising those Funerals are not cheering you up. Under normal circumstances you’d be well pleased with these Funerals:eek:;)

Sinbad_NI

munsterlegend wrote: »

And a bit of waffle thrown in. Players don’t switch teams in international football especially given the hassle up north without a lot of thought. The nationalist population don’t buy into team NI and never will as long as the anthem and flags issues aren’t addressed.

Totally agree, nothing worse than the playing of anthems and the flying of flags alienating one section of the community from buying into this or any other sport.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

You expect Sinn Fein to condemn the mourners attending a funeral on the same day that he was being buried? And on a Sunday?



Seriously?


Just for the record, the death notices says:





https://www.funeraltimes.com/seanfitzpatrick447224244

This is republican funeral number 5 that has blatantly put the community at risk and they haven’t condemned any yet They have spent last week trying to prevent single grieving people visiting their loved ones graves just because unionists proposed it.

This does show that some on here are incapable of pointing out sf hypocrisy

downcow

armaghlad wrote: »

Stop lying you absolute plonker

There you go.
Count for yourself and then tell us who the plonker is
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320xq90/r/923/rsYE40.jpg

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm assuming you never did answer this question I posited.

I'm not sure how au fait you are with the work of a police service but unlike the RUC, the Gardaí are there to protect all citizens of the State, including Loyalists. If you read about the day in question, they were not stopped from protesting, but merely encouraged and facilitated in moving the protest/march to outside the Dáil ensuring the participants' safety.

So, to misconstrue that as evidence that in a UI the Govt would clamp down on Unionist cultural expression is fanciful, and that's being generous.

So I'm accepting that at this stage you have ZERO evidence that this scenario may come to pass. We can move on.


---

Seems I have about 25 pages to catch up on so expect a barrage!!!

I have posted the news reports that the loyalists were not allowed to carry out their civil right because a few republicans through stones at the guards. So I am not going to continue providing endless reports to you. It’s like are mate above who is trying to tell us there was not 100+ at yesterday’s ira funeral even the evidence is starting in his face

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Loyalists were under the guard of the Gardaí for their safety. You're being willingly ignorant here and as for you ionizing of that charlatan Frazer... You're ridiculous.

How do you feel about the former their and charlatan bobby sands?

downcow

blinding wrote: »

Kinda surprising those Funerals are not cheering you up. Under normal circumstances you’d be well pleased with these Funerals:eek:;)

No I don’t celebrate the death of any human being. Unlike some on here and some sf MLAs

downcow

armaghlad wrote: »

The loyalist obsession continues. I’ve seen these photos, doing the rounds among sad bàstards on twitter. Judge for yourself if it’s a big crowd.

Talking about sad bàstards, this is the type of hypocrisy that is coming you way if the shinners get into power down south. It would fit people like this better if they would begin by apologising for not being ‘very nice to others’ themselves
https://imageshack.com/i/pm4U75T1p

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

This whole business of fai poaching ni players pisses off a lot of people up here and further damages relationships between the two countries. An like all damaged relationships it makes it even harder for those wishing to encourage support for UI.

But fair play to michael O’Neil, a nationalist speaking out again wanting the men in the fai to stop interfering with our young boys.

Good on you Michael and thanks for the journey.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/fifa-shouldnt-allow-it-michael-oneills-parting-shot-on-eligibility-row-between-northern-ireland-and-republic-39150067.html

Poaching players?

Are we really here again?

Are you gonna tell James McClean or Shane Duffy or Darron Gibson that they can't play for their country?

I'm sure you were apoplectic when Chris Baird and Niall McGinn bowed for GSTQ because despite playing for the IFA team it's not their anthem. Probably not because you don't even recall it.

You have no right to claim any player's allegiance. It's precisely that attitude which means the NI team isn't one Nationalists have any affinity for.

You're best moving in from this subject in future because you're woefully out of your depth pal.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I feel I am probably wasting my time responding, because you know rightly that you are only on a windup.

Some nutcase, we will never know who, made a call from a public phone box threatening him. We don't even know if it was ROI fan trying to give us some bad PR. The vast majority of Northern Ireland supporters got right behind him, but of course the press wanted to tell a different story.
As Michael has said, no one has any problem with young people selecting to develop and play with ROI. The issue is that young men come right through the Northern Ireland system and if they turn out to be a real prospect, and are catholic, then ROI try to get them to jump across. This includes wining and dining parents.
Thankfully very few go, and I don't think I am aware of anyone outside Derry who has gone this century - could be wrong there.

And of course to bring up nonsense like anti-Catholic chants - well it is just that, nonsense. ROI have a much greater problem with this now, with large numbers of their fans wearing celtic shirts and singing anti-Protestant songs. You will not find a Rangers shirt next or near a Northern Ireland game - thankfully.

I agree with you that there is an issue around the playing of the anthem and we need to deal with it, but at least we are talking about it which is more than the Ireland rugby team are doing

It was probably an ROI fan trying to stir that pot was it?

Now that's a serious reach.

---

Again, there's a couple of things wrong with your assertion.

The system as you call it, is a system there to develop young players full stop. Allegiance doesn't come into it.

Are you suggesting a young fellow from Moyle who would be an ROI fan attends his training in Dundalk so that he doesn't take the place of a young NI fan?

You should be encouraging kids to play sport regardless of their background.

Secondly, the FAI have a policy of not initiating first contact with a player to ensure blowhards like yourself don't get their noses out of joint.

I'm sure you weren't all up on arms when Alex Bruce went the on to play for the Statelet?

Again, you're out of your depth here. I wouldn't keep it up.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Oh deary me. Same old same old.
Tell me anywhere else in the world for two countries can enter a joint team in the World Cup?

You do realise that the the North, Scotland, Wales and England all play with a special dispensation as it stands?

By rights their should be a single UK team as generally speaking, parts of States aren't allowed play international football. (Other anomalies exist like Tahiti and Faroes)

It's a very interesting subject which you should inform yourself about before coming out with guff.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

I think you will find that my facts usually, when tested, turn out to be accurate.
But let's look at your facts just misstatement alone!

I did say football, but now that you have brought rugby, who are the two countries who are allowed to enter the Rugby World Cup as one team?

'Korea have often fielded a joint team in Olympics events'. Can you tell me roughly how often this happened?

With regard to the anthem, I am continuing to work to get it removed, but it is not easy as it is the official anthem of the UK of which Northern Ireland is recognised internationally as being an integral part, even the GFA states.
But as I continue to work added I have not heard a single poster on here who is working to get the soldier's Song removed from Ireland games. Would you campaign for that?

When your "facts" are tested you usually run away!

Amazing how there's such difficulty for the IFA representative team to get GSTQ removed because of it being an "integral part of the UK" and yet Scotland and Wales have no such qualms and they're actually an integral part of Britain.

Mad that.

---

If Amhrán na bhFiann was offensive and preventing people lining out for what is their purported county then of course it should be looked at. But it's not the case, and thankfully we're not riven by sectarianism which means half the people in the jurisdiction that are represented by the IFA team wouldn't pull the curtains to watch them playing in the back garden. It's not the ROI team's fault that yer lit with sectarianism.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

and you won't see a Linfield shirt either. Unlike ROI fans who wear Celtic shirts in large numbers and sing anti protestant songs

What?

Go home Downcow. This is preposterous. You're not having a good time of it on this subject.

Paul_Crosby

downcow wrote: »

How do you feel about the former their and charlatan bobby sands?

Why was Bobby Sands a charlatan?

The loyalists already tried a hunger strike by the way, none of them could stick to it, they did get political status thanks largely to the Republican hunger strikers though

The idea of a loyalist hunger strike in the event of a United Ireland is ****ing laughable, how could they pull it off now when they couldn't get anybody to pull it off during the height of the troubles?

Your mate Willie Frazers best friend Jamie Bryson went on hunger strike and ordered a takeaway the same day!!