How long before Irish reunification?

careless sherpa

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Come on, loads of people who never vote SF care! Seriously, there isn't a hope of the south voting against it, no comfort for unionists in that, their goal has to be to keep a majority in favour of partition in the north.

That should be the goal of unionists but they never seem to be able to grasp the concept. The DUP support for Brexit is a perfect example of this. Will probably result in a united Ireland and they have brought it upon themselves through pure ignorance

FrancieBrady

careless sherpa wrote: »

That should be the goal of unionists but they never seem to be able to grasp the concept. The DUP support for Brexit is a perfect example of this. Will probably result in a united Ireland and they have brought it upon themselves through pure ignorance

It's not that they haven't politicians that know what is coming down the line.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/north-should-prepare-for-united-ireland-possibility-ex-dup-leader-1.3578620

RobMc59

10-15 years

eire4 wrote: »

No question that the EU has other serious issues it must deal with in up coming years. But equally no reasons at all they cannot deal with and help with Irish reunification as well.

You make it sound so simple-which is`nt the case,there is only so much EU money to go around-a post brexit Britain won`t be able to pay for it and Ireland has debts of it`s own without the cost of a UI-taking away emotions,a UI at this present time is`nt financially attainable.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

You make it sound so simple-which is`nt the case,there is only so much EU money to go around-a post brexit Britain won`t be able to pay for it and Ireland has debts of it`s own without the cost of a UI-taking away emotions,a UI at this present time is`nt financially attainable.

Yet the UK paying for it post brexit isn't even a question? Are you happy for your taxes to go on it post any brexit fall out?

facehugger99

RobMc59 wrote: »

a UI at this present time is`nt financially attainable.

And that's likely to always be the case.

There will always be other funding pressures and demands, whether that be trying to sustain pensions at their current levels amid a demographic shift or a painful economic transition away from carbon consumption. The political and societal priorities will always favour something other than flushing 10 billion a year down an economic black hole.

37% of taxpayers may provide lip-service to a UI but they won't actually choose to fund it - sure there'll be a small rump too dogmatic, insular or stupid to recognise reality, but the vast majority won't make that mistake if the time ever came.

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yet the UK paying for it post brexit isn't even a question? Are you happy for your taxes to go on it post any brexit fall out?

And so it begins:

This type of survey is known as a Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) and is used widely in developed economies.

It uses an index approach where any reading above 50 is growth and below 50 is contraction.

The headline business activity figure for Northern Ireland in June was 44.1 down from 46 in May.

PMIs are considered a fairly reliable guide to what later official data will show.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-48885176

RobMc59

10-15 years

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yet the UK paying for it post brexit isn't even a question? Are you happy for your taxes to go on it post any brexit fall out?

Matt,we`ve all put our penny`s worth in about the practicality of a UI at some time or another and the UK paying or helping to pay for it has always been mooted as an option,alongside the EU and US.
Britain obviously would have some obligation in regards to transition costs and I would`nt object to that but the lion`s share of the cost should be shouldered by Ireland imo

Sunny Disposition

15-20 years

careless sherpa wrote: »

That should be the goal of unionists but they never seem to be able to grasp the concept. The DUP support for Brexit is a perfect example of this. Will probably result in a united Ireland and they have brought it upon themselves through pure ignorance

Yeah, they didn’t need to prove how British they were to anyone but couldn’t resist. Now they have antagonised almost all nationalists and moderate unionists, the people they need to stick with them.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Matt,we`ve all put our penny`s worth in about the practicality of a UI at some time or another and the UK paying or helping to pay for it has always been mooted as an option,alongside the EU and US.
Britain obviously would have some obligation in regards to transition costs and I would`nt object to that but the lion`s share of the cost should be shouldered by Ireland imo

Any pensions would need be honoured by the UK as would any debts incurred during the occupation.

_blaaz

10-15 years

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Any pensions would need be honoured by the UK as would any debts incurred during the occupation.

The most iconic fact of all this is....even if ireland took on NIs portion of UK debt,it would loweren the amount of debt per person on island

careless sherpa

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Yeah, they didn’t need to prove how British they were to anyone but couldn’t resist. Now they have antagonised almost all nationalists and moderate unionists, the people they need to stick with them.

It always seems to be people saying how unionists need to be persuaded to join a united Ireland. The reality is that unionists need to constantly be trying to convince the nationalist population that they are better off outside of a UI. One vote over 50% and the UK is dead and gone forever. Once one referendum happens it is only a matter of time

Sunny Disposition

15-20 years

careless sherpa wrote: »

It always seems to be people saying how unionists need to be persuaded to join a united Ireland. The reality is that unionists need to constantly be trying to convince the nationalist population that they are better off outside of a UI. One vote over 50% and the UK is dead and gone forever. Once one referendum happens it is only a matter of time

Killing nationalism with kindness has not been tried since partition but is really the only thing that might work. Instead the DUP do counter productive things like fighting the Irish Language Act.

Sunny Disposition

15-20 years

Watching a BBC programme about a no deal Brexit, total madness if there is a hard border, won’t work for the Unionists either, will really intensify nationalist demands if it happens, at a time when they will become the majority.

Such a case of needing to be careful what you wish for. One dumbass on who is farming on the border who voted to leave, complaining it could be catastrophic if there’s no deal.

RobMc59

10-15 years

careless sherpa wrote: »

It always seems to be people saying how unionists need to be persuaded to join a united Ireland. The reality is that unionists need to constantly be trying to convince the nationalist population that they are better off outside of a UI. One vote over 50% and the UK is dead and gone forever. Once one referendum happens it is only a matter of time

I suppose it depends whether your attitude is "just you lot wait,once there's more than 50% of us nationalists you're toast"!-as you appear to favour or alternatively enter meaningful dialogue with the unionists who are probably understandably apprehensive.

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I suppose it depends whether your attitude is "just you lot wait,once there's more than 50% of us nationalists you're toast"!-as you appear to favour or alternatively enter meaningful dialogue with the unionists who are probably understandably apprehensive.

Mate unionist leaders are banning dialogue on it....you need only see way jeffery donaldson was beat down from all sides of unionism for merly suggesting unionism prepare for posibility of it??



Theres more than enough moderates or simply people with cop on within unionism.to make a reasonable debate.....but unionisms political leaders are a bit like boards posters and scream shinner at anyone who merly expresses interest in the topic

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I suppose it depends whether your attitude is "just you lot wait,once there's more than 50% of us nationalists you're toast"!-as you appear to favour or alternatively enter meaningful dialogue with the unionists who are probably understandably apprehensive.

Unionists entering 'meaningful dialogue'? Which Unionist has put their hand up to do that?
They trenchantly don't want this conversation to start because they don't want the idea fleshed out.
But once again for Unionists,(like with the Anglo Irish Agreement) events will move along without them when it becomes politically expedient for the British to move on it.

facehugger99

_blaaz wrote: »

The most iconic fact of all this is....even if ireland took on NIs portion of UK debt,it would loweren the amount of debt per person on island

Alainis Morissette would be proud of you.

I know you're very proud of that stat - but it simply illustrates the level of debt the ROI are carrying compared to the UK - how taking on a 10 billion a year basket case would help is anyone's guess - maybe you could explain?

I expect not though.

Now that's ironic folks.:pac:

_blaaz

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Alainis Morissette would be proud of you.

I know you're very proud of that stat - but it simply illustrates the level of debt the ROI are carrying compared to the UK - how taking on a 10 billion a year basket case would help is anyone's guess - maybe you could explain?

I expect not though.

Now that's ironic folks.:pac:

Meh....its a fact that yous seem unwilling to tackle anyways

How is that?




Now now,id be of opioion that the 10 billion is way overstated.....and would like to see breakdown as afaik this includes pensions (including bloated security service pension from troubles?)and contributions to uk military and royal family aswell





But ya....you keep telling us how a border poll would never pass.....but scream hysterically at prospect of actually putting your opioion to the electorate


Who dafuq is alainis morisette anyway and what relevence deos he have to a reunification debate?

facehugger99

_blaaz wrote: »

Who dafuq is alainis morisette anyway and what relevence deos he have to a reunification debate?

One would almost say it's ironic, that someone who misused the word ironic, was unaware of one of the most famous examples of the misuse of the word ironic.

If the demolition of your 'fact' went over you head, it's not really my concern.

My opinion is that 10 billion a year is a gross underestimation of the cost of taking on NI - opinions are great and mine carries more weight.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

One would almost say it's ironic, that someone who misused the word ironic, was unaware of one of the most famous examples of the misuse of the word ironic.

If the demolition of your 'fact' went over you head, it's not really my concern.

My opinion is that 10 billion a year is a gross underestimation of the cost of taking on NI - opinions are great and mine carries more weight.

I think the weight of the opinion of somebody who thinks 37% is a majority is very light indeed.

But go ahead and show us your no doubt watertight figures on what it would cost?

_blaaz

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

One would almost say it's ironic, that someone who misused the word ironic, was unaware of one of the most famous examples of the misuse of the word ironic.

Well that was about as informative as most of your posts anyway :pac:

If the demolition of your 'fact' went over you head, it's not really my concern.

You think acknowliging i was correct is demolising a fact,funny lil world you reside in (hint mate...facts cant be demolished,they tell truth)

My opinion is that 10 billion a year is a gross underestimation of the cost of taking on NI - opinions are great and mine carries more weight.

What are you basing your opinion on??

And why do you believe it carries more weight (grade A arrogence there mate btw) than someone who believes the deficit figure should.be examined and acknowleges significant legacy issues attached to it???

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the weight of the opinion of somebody who thinks 37% is a majority is very light indeed.

But go ahead and show us your no doubt watertight figures on what it would cost?

Nah - current arrangement suits me fine Francie lad.

UK are picking up the tab whether it's 10, 12 or 15 billion a year, it's no skin off my nose and isn't coming out of my pocket.


Long may it continue.

Good luck running a campaign that tries to convince ROI voters to pay more for your pipe-dream though

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Nah - current arraignment suits me fine Francie lad.

UK are picking up the tab whether it's 10, 12 or 15 billion a year, it's no skin off my nose and isn't coming out of my pocket.


Long may it continue.

Good luck running a campaign that tries to convince ROI voters to pay more for your pipe-dream though

So you don't have any figures on what it would cost yet you trenchantly know that it will cost much more than...what is the figure today...11 or 12 billions?

_blaaz

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you don't have any figures on what it would cost yet you trenchantly know that it will cost much more than...what is the figure today...11 or 12 billions?

This lad is great craic tbf

Runs around calling everyone shinners and when that fails screams 10 billion over and over....despite ireland turning around an 11 billion a year deficit in the worst econmic downturn in the last 100 years

careless sherpa

RobMc59 wrote: »

I suppose it depends whether your attitude is "just you lot wait,once there's more than 50% of us nationalists you're toast"!-as you appear to favour or alternatively enter meaningful dialogue with the unionists who are probably understandably apprehensive.

What I favour or don't does not change the fact that the clock is ticking on what had been a disastrous British arrangement for the division of Ireland. The experiment has been a failure with the British controlled north of the country lurching from a discriminatory sectarian statelet to open warfare to a situation now where it is suspended in a political vacuum. The sooner British interference on the island is consigned to the dustbin the sooner Irish people can set about developing the entire island. Irish affairs are best decided in the interests of irish people, and not by a bunch of toffs sitting in Westminster

eire4

RobMc59 wrote: »

You make it sound so simple-which is`nt the case,there is only so much EU money to go around-a post brexit Britain won`t be able to pay for it and Ireland has debts of it`s own without the cost of a UI-taking away emotions,a UI at this present time is`nt financially attainable.

Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then. I do not think it is financially unattainable at all. I think it can indeed be done and I have no doubt the EU is capable of helping and also dealing with other serious issues at the same time. Like many things you have to invest first before you make a return on your money and long term a reunified Ireland I have every confidence would do fine financially.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

My opinion is that 10 billion a year is a gross underestimation of the cost of taking on NI - opinions are great and mine carries more weight.

I see, facts are a problem for you when you ideology is in the way. For whatever reason be it maybe that you are of a Unionist mindset you cannot see past the idea of a partitioned Ireland. For many people their myopia limits their ability to see beyond their own bellybutton and to wish for greater things. You seem stuck with an opinion that stops progress, for your sake you should try and embrace change in all your life , it makes things more interesting and you don't place obstacle to your own imagination.

James Brown

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

One would almost say it's ironic, that someone who misused the word ironic, was unaware of one of the most famous examples of the misuse of the word ironic.

If the demolition of your 'fact' went over you head, it's not really my concern.

My opinion is that 10 billion a year is a gross underestimation of the cost of taking on NI - opinions are great and mine carries more weight.

Oscar Wilde you are not.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

If you didn’t watch the debate tonight you probably should have.
Especially after the events in Parliament today.
DUP are about to get thrown violently under the bus.

Your imaginry polls about €11 billion aren’t the headlines facehugger. Sorry.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

blanch152 wrote: »

there will be years before an indicative poll will even be considered by the Secretary of State and that even in the unlikely event that it is passed, it will take a further decade to negotiate the details of a united Ireland.

There's one of the principle problems with the unionist/pro-partition mindset. You're so emotionally, and reflexively, against a United Ireland that if it doesn't happen in the next couple of decades, or in your lifetime, then you consider that success.

We took several hundred years to get the British state out of the majority of Ireland, what's the difference if it takes another 50/100/200?

The United Ireland thing isn't going away -- not in your lifetime, not in your children's lifetime and not in their children's lifetime.