How long before Irish reunification?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's funny that no unionist or partitionist has addressed two things mentioned here.

The acceptance of the border in the Irish Sea after the usual Never Never marching of men up the hill.

Nor the setting up of a 'Unity Unit' proposed by the prospective government here. Which IMO is not a fluke. I think they are sure there is a border poll coming soon.

From the perspective of the Republic having a border in the Irish Sea lessons the argument for unification. Both countries can trade normally under this arrangement.

I agree it's no fluke that FF/FG are setting up a Unity Unit but i think it has more to do with recovering votes from SF than an indication that a border poll is imminent.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

I think junkyards point was a sectarian one.

Hamsterchops

So in a curious evolutionary twist, it seems that the indeginous Catholic red has been outbreeding the Protestant grey in Northern Ireland for some time now ... this, despite the fact that the grey does way more banging (lambeg), while the Gaelic speaking red is much feistier, but has smaller nuts!

A curious statistic in the modern world, whereby Church/Mass attendance has been slowly been declining worldwide, yet these two varieties (denominations) of Christianity battle it out via nuts and sperm count

Quite fascinating to the rest of the animal kingdom I would imagine. In England they don't care what variety of Christianity you are, because most of their squirrels share their nuts

PS: Who needs cannabis when you have lockdown.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

From the perspective of the Republic having a border in the Irish Sea lessons the argument for unification. Both countries can trade normally under this arrangement.

Not disagreeing with that but modifying it slightly...the status quo on unity would remain imo. I don't think 'lessen' is the correct word.

And the status quo will only remain IF the arrangement works and already it is an issue in the talks.

I agree it's no fluke that FF/FG are setting up a Unity Unit but i think it has more to do with recovering votes from SF than an indication that a border poll is imminent.

I am easily convinced that FF/FG would be stupid enough to hold a magnifying glass up to their in-action on this by creating a quango that does nothing and can be easily pointed at and evaluated but I think you are wrong.
The mood has changed on a UI, here and in The UK.
I think the change down south is that the big two know it is coming and they are not going to be caught unprepared.
BOTH of them will want to be the government that achieves a UI...make no mistake about that.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

You are going to call me on my admitted reasons for not wanting a UI which are both financial and from a security viewpoint. I don't want troubles in the South so that my family is safe, what's wrong with that? I don't want to pay for a UI because I want to pay my kids way through college and have money to set them up for life.
You are the unrealistic one with ideals that you feel allows you to disregard the feelings of hundreds of thousands of people living in Northern Ireland.

Yes I am gonna 'call you' sadly.

Your forebears were not thinking like that when they made sarcrifices to invest in this country. YOU only have what you have because of their sarcrifices.

I get it, it is easy to be selfish. Easier to switch off the news and say, that doesn't concern me. Not everyone can do that thankfully.

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes I am gonna 'call you' sadly.

Your forebears were not thinking like that when they made sarcrifices to invest in this country. YOU only have what you have because of their sarcrifices.

I get it, it is easy to be selfish. Easier to switch off the news and say, that doesn't concern me. Not everyone can do that thankfully.

You don't think that they were looking for a better life and future for their children?? So were they fighting just because they enjoyed killing or simply hated the other group of people?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Quite fascinating to the rest of the animal kingdom I would imagine. In England they don't care what variety of Christianity you are, because most of their squirrels share their nuts

(No play on words intended) but God bless your little cotton socks if you believe that.

The new rules also allow members of the Royal Family to marry a Roman Catholic and become king or queen.

However, a Roman Catholic royal still cannot become the monarch.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32073399

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You don't think that they were looking for a better life and future for their children?? So were they fighting just because they enjoyed killing or simply hated the other group of people?

I am not talking about fighting, although that was a massive sarcrifice for the future..I am talking about the sarcrifices they made to build the state to what it is now.
Men and women of my fathers generation for instance. They had the opportunity to emigrate in the early 50's but decided to stay and tough it out, because they felt they were abandoning the country. Many people thankfully did that, the country would have floundered had they not.

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not talking about fighting, although that was a massive sarcrifice for the future..I am talking about the sarcrifices they made to build the state to what it is now.
Men and women of my fathers generation for instance. They had the opportunity to emigrate in the early 50's but decided to stay and tough it out, because they felt they were abandoning the country. Many people thankfully did that, the country would have floundered had they not.

So they wanted to make a better country for their children to live in?

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So they wanted to make a better country for their children to live in?

Yes, most certainly. And economic hardship was one of the things that was going to take.
They didn't take the attitude that 'I and my children are alright' and pull the ladder up.

If the OP on this point has a theory that just leaving/ignoring the situation in NI will make here a 'better' place, that is fine...posit that theory. But the attitude of 'once I and mine are alright, I'll just ignore others' deserves to be called out, as it is selfish not to mention lazy and foolish.

jm08

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So in a curious evolutionary twist, it seems that the indeginous Catholic red has been outbreeding the Protestant grey in Northern Ireland for some time now ... this, despite the fact that the grey does way more banging (lambeg), while the Gaelic speaking red is much feistier, but has smaller nuts!

A curious statistic in the modern world, whereby Church/Mass attendance has been slowly been declining worldwide, yet these two varieties (denominations) of Christianity battle it out via nuts and sperm count

Quite fascinating to the rest of the animal kingdom I would imagine. In England they don't care what variety of Christianity you are, because most of their squirrels share their nuts


PS: Who needs cannabis when you have lockdown.

First of all, its nothing to do with church/mass attendance - its a cultural thing as to the values you learn growing up in a particular society.

England is predominatly culturally Church of England who are far more tolerant than Free Presbyterians (though that wears a bit thin in English attitudes to Scots!). No love lost there.

blinding

10-15 years

Sure if you are not happy being a Brit on the Island of Ireland maybe you’d like to try being a Brit on the Big Island ! !

I not sure they would have much to recognise in Northern Irish “ Brittery “ ! !

armaghlad

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Unionists are now the minority in Northern Ireland, seriously, is that a fact? Because if so, then what's the delay in pulling NI out of the United Kingdom?

Serious question.

I have heard it suggested that there is actually already a slight nationalist majority (or more precisely majority of people from a nationalist/Catholic background) but it cannot be reported officially until the next census is carried out. This is in line with demographic projections so it will be interesting to see if it comes to fruition.

blinding

10-15 years

armaghlad wrote: »

I have heard it suggested that there is actually already a slight nationalist majority (or more precisely majority of people from a nationalist/Catholic background) but it cannot be reported officially until the next census is carried out. This is in line with demographic projections so it will be interesting to see if it comes to fruition.

The demographics are against the Unionists big time.

That and the fact that many of their University kids go to the Big Island for University and don’t come back means that they are on a very slippery slop.

Sure , why would their University kids come back to flog a dead horse ? ?

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

(No play on words intended) but God bless your little cotton socks if you believe that.



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32073399

For someone who constantly claims to not give a hoot about a person's religious persuasion you do seem to constantly bring religion up francie.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

For someone who constantly claims to not give a hoot about a person's religious persuasion you do seem to constantly bring religion up francie.

I didn't 'bring it up Rob'...somebody was singing the secular praises of Britain... I commented on it.
My household is a microcosm of the republic...mixed religion and no religion...and we all get on the very best. No hierarchies or glass ceilings like there are in your monarchical society.

Hamsterchops

blinding wrote: »

Sure if you are not happy being a Brit on the Island of Ireland maybe you’d like to try being a Brit on the Big Island ! !

I not sure they would have much to recognise in Northern Irish “ Brittery “ ! !

Me? Oh I'm not a "Brit" bit I suppose I'm more like a Geldof type of Irishman who questions those narrow old ideas of Irishness, like the type you have just displayed there by calling anybody who deviates from the old Nationalist narrative as a "Brit".

Devils advocate and all that jazz...

If this island is to become one Nation under one flag, singing one national anthem, then a serious amount of bridge building needs to be done with your British friends (enemies?) just one hundred miles up the road......

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Me? Oh I'm not a "Brit" bit I suppose I'm more like a Geldof age/type of Irishman who questions those narrow old ideas of Irishness, like the type you have just displayed there by calling anybody who deviates from the old Nationalist narrative as a "Brit".

Devils advocate and all that jazz...

If this island is to become one Nation under one flag, singing one national anthem, then a serious amount of bridge building needs to be done with your British friends (enemies?) just one hundred miles up the road......

Would your 'Geldofian' work not be directed more productively at those who cannot even bring themselves to write an Irish name properly or rejoice in not knowing the geography of the island they live on, lest they undermine their sense of Britishness?
They are here right on this thread and funny...I never seen you admonish them.

Agendas and all that. :rolleyes:

Hamsterchops

Well I did call them grey squirrels with big drums!

Grey squirrels are not the indeginous squirrel, they are invaders are they not? I also like a bit of balance, hence the reds have smaller nuts.

I will not conform to Brit bashing.

blinding

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Me? Oh I'm not a "Brit" bit I suppose I'm more like a Geldof type of Irishman who questions those narrow old ideas of Irishness, like the type you have just displayed there by calling anybody who deviates from the old Nationalist narrative as a "Brit".

Devils advocate and all that jazz...

If this island is to become one Nation under one flag, singing one national anthem, then a serious amount of bridge building needs to be done with your British friends (enemies?) just one hundred miles up the road......

Funnily enough the Big Island Brits hate the sight and sound of Geldof. To them he is just one Giant Great Paddy pain in the Ar$e ! ! !

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

I get it, it is easy to be selfish. Easier to switch off the news and say, that doesn't concern me. Not everyone can do that thankfully.

But it does concern me greatly. It concerns me greatly that attempts at a UI is likely to see the troubles ignite and in the south with unionist paramilitary fighting for their freedom. I'm also concerned greatly about the financial cost of a UI which I don't want to pay for.
What happened in the past should remain in the past. We should be looking forward and not back but learning from the past. Learning from the past means accepting that what happened 100 years ago was wrong and would be wrong now too. You shouldn't be forcing a huge % of the population to accept being under Irish rule if they don't want to be.

blinding

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

But it does concern me greatly. It concerns me greatly that attempts at a UI is likely to see the troubles ignite and in the south with unionist paramilitary fighting for their freedom. I'm also concerned greatly about the financial cost of a UI which I don't want to pay for.
What happened in the past should remain in the past. We should be looking forward and not back but learning from the past. Learning from the past means accepting that what happened 100 years ago was wrong and would be wrong now too. You shouldn't be forcing a huge % of the population to accept being under Irish rule if they don't want to be.

Sure they can have all the freedom they want on the big Island to Brit it up and embarrass the Locals ! ! !

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

But it does concern me greatly. It concerns me greatly that attempts at a UI is likely to see the troubles ignite and in the south with unionist paramilitary fighting for their freedom. I'm also concerned greatly about the financial cost of a UI which I don't want to pay for.
What happened in the past should remain in the past. We should be looking forward and not back but learning from the past. Learning from the past means accepting that what happened 100 years ago was wrong and would be wrong now too. You shouldn't be forcing a huge % of the population to accept being under Irish rule if they don't want to be.

But you should force a significant minority possibly soon a majority to accept they can’t live in an Irish state? Let’s face it the demographics are only going one way.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

But it does concern me greatly. It concerns me greatly that attempts at a UI is likely to see the troubles ignite and in the south with unionist paramilitary fighting for their freedom. I'm also concerned greatly about the financial cost of a UI which I don't want to pay for.
What happened in the past should remain in the past. We should be looking forward and not back but learning from the past. Learning from the past means accepting that what happened 100 years ago was wrong and would be wrong now too. You shouldn't be forcing a huge % of the population to accept being under Irish rule if they don't want to be.

Who is 'forcing' anyone? If anyone is being forced to do something, it is those to whom a border poll is being denied.

Sorry to mention the past (Seems 'the past' is not to be forgotten when you want to point at one sides killers and one sides atrocities though) BUT the GFA is not just an end point. It is an agreement that is a process and it has to fulfill that process, which is to give the people their say.
Anyone who signed up to or supports the GFA supports the outcome of it...stands to reason.

So nobody is being forced...unless being asked to be a democrat is forcing someone.

munsterlegend

blinding wrote: »

Sure they can have all the freedom they want on the big Island to Brit it up and embarrass the Locals ! ! !

There would be no holiday allowed in Britain for such marching. Those rights to march down the queen’s highway would be curtailed big time.

blinding

10-15 years

How about a Return Plantation with Generous Grants and the like ! !

munsterlegend

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well I did call them grey squirrels with big drums!

Grey squirrels are not the indeginous squirrel, they are invaders are they not? I also like a bit of balance, hence the reds have smaller nuts.

I will not conform to Brit bashing.

British policy in Ireland has contributed to this mess. Everyone has had a part to play in the divisions that currently exist. Society in the republic has been transformed in the last 30 years. The north has been left behind by a considerable margin.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

UI is likely to see the troubles ignite and in the south with unionist paramilitary fighting for their freedom.

I'll add you to the long list of 'did/could not answers' when I ask what exactly they'd be shooting/bombing innocent Catholics for?

....

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

So nobody is being forced...unless being asked to be a democrat is forcing someone.

There are hundreds of thousands of people born, bred and living in Northern Ireland who have lived their whole lives under British rule are are happy with that. Do you not think their voice is hugely important in this?
If they don't want to be a part of a United Ireland what is your answer to that?

munsterlegend

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'll add you to the long list of 'did/could not answers' when I ask what exactly they'd be shooting/bombing innocent Catholics for?

....

At the height of the troubles their capabilities were quite poor save for British assistance. I also believe that any such violence would be repulsive to both communities.