How long before Irish reunification?

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, most certainly. And economic hardship was one of the things that was going to take.
They didn't take the attitude that 'I and my children are alright' and pull the ladder up.

If the OP on this point has a theory that just leaving/ignoring the situation in NI will make here a 'better' place, that is fine...posit that theory. But the attitude of 'once I and mine are alright, I'll just ignore others' deserves to be called out, as it is selfish not to mention lazy and foolish.

So if a group of people make a decision (vote) that they think will provide a better life/future for their children and you agree with that decision, then thats fine.

But if a group of people make a decision (vote) that they think will provide a better life/future for their children and you don't agree with that decision, then they are lazy, selfish and foolish. Great. Glad we cleared that up.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

I'll add you to the long list of 'did/could not answers' when I ask what exactly they'd be shooting/bombing innocent Catholics for?

Same reason the IRA killed lots of innocent protestants? Because their scum like the IRA?
I abhor violence and murder and I wouldn't want to see it. It's a distinct possibility though if attempts at a UI advance.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

There are hundreds of thousands of people born, bred and living in Northern Ireland who have lived their whole lives under British rule are are happy with that. Do you not think their voice is hugely important in this?
If they don't want to be a part of a United Ireland what is your answer to that?

They have a vote, just like everyone else has now a vote (sorry to point to the past, but that is a relatively recent achievement...in my lifetime).

The majority agreed to abide by the decision of the majority. They also agreed that the people get their say and that everybody will abide by whatever they say.

If you wish to change the GFA now in favour of your perceived financial security and your children's happiness, then campaign for that change.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

If they don't want to be a part of a United Ireland what is your answer to that?

Tough shit. They had 100 years to make it work and have failed miserably.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Same reason the IRA killed lots of innocent protestants? Because their scum like the IRA?
I abhor violence and murder and I wouldn't want to see it. It's a distinct possibility though if attempts at a UI advance.

I thought the 'past' was the past? :rolleyes:

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Same reason the IRA killed lots of innocent protestants? Because their scum like the IRA?
I abhor violence and murder and I wouldn't want to see it. It's a distinct possibility though if attempts at a UI advance.

Yeah you haven't a clue and you haven't answered the question.

Unionist violence after a United Ireland vote - what for?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Tough ****. They had 100 years to make it work and have failed miserably.

And as I keep saying, that is the attitude of 100 years ago. You are just like those Brits.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So if a group of people make a decision (vote) that they think will provide a better life/future for their children and you agree with that decision, then thats fine.

But if a group of people make a decision (vote) that they think will provide a better life/future for their children and you don't agree with that decision, then they are lazy, selfish and foolish. Great. Glad we cleared that up.

This OP doesn't even want the 'vote' to take place. They don't want the question asked...that is ignoring the wishes of a lot of people and lazy.

Read what they are saying before you start 'clearing up'.

jm08

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well I did call them grey squirrels with big drums!

Grey squirrels are not the indeginous squirrel, they are invaders are they not? I also like a bit of balance, hence the reds have smaller nuts.

I will not conform to Brit bashing.

Is someone called 'Geldof' an indigenious squirel:)?

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This OP doesn't even want the 'vote' to take place. They don't want the question asked...that is ignoring the wishes of a lot of people and lazy.

Read what they are saying before you start 'clearing up'.

Trust me, I've been reading this whole thread. I agree with Eagle Eye. I don't want a border poll or a UI. For the same reasons as him/her. The economy; I pay enough tax as it is, I don't want to have to pay more to cover NI. Security; there are far too many murderous psychopaths (on both sides) who would love nothing more than having the excuse of fighting for their freedom/culture so that they can kill people and blow places up.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Trust me, I've been reading this whole thread. I agree with Eagle Eye. I don't want a border poll or a UI. For the same reasons as him/her. The economy; I pay enough tax as it is, I don't want to have to pay more to cover NI. Security; there are far too many murderous psychopaths (on both sides) who would love nothing more than having the excuse of fighting for their freedom/culture so that they can kill people and blow places up.

So you are anti-GFA. Own it. And campaign for it to be rescinded. Because otherwise the rest of us democrats will continue to ask for it to be implemented.

Hamsterchops

jm08 wrote: »

Is someone called 'Geldof' an indigenious squirel:)?

Probably not?

Adams is also a non indeginous squirrel (Scots descent).

jm08

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

There are hundreds of thousands of people born, bred and living in Northern Ireland who have lived their whole lives under British rule are are happy with that. Do you not think their voice is hugely important in this?
If they don't want to be a part of a United Ireland what is your answer to that?

Why are these people voting nationalist parties like SF and SDLP then? Surely they should be voting unionist if they are content with the situation?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

DeVelera, Markiewicz, Casement.

jm08

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Probably not?

Adams is also a non indeginous squirrel (Scots descent).

Geldof's grandfather was Belgian!

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

I thought the 'past' was the past?

Childish nonsense, I said we learn from the past. We don't want the troubles back, we have to find the best solution that accomplishes that. A UI won't accomplish that.
Also the GFA was about ending the troubles. There are lots of people who voted for that with a short term outlook which was to end the troubles.
A UI is a totally different thing.

You keep avoiding the question, using a lame democracy excuse, about what you do with the hundreds of thousands of people born and bred in Northern Ireland who don't want to be a part of a UI.

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

Childish nonsense, I said we learn from the past. We don't want the troubles back, we have to find the best solution that accomplishes that. A UI won't accomplish that.
Also the GFA was about ending the troubles. There are lots of people who voted for that with a short term outlook which was to end the troubles.
A UI is a totally different thing.

You keep avoiding the question, using a lame democracy excuse, about what you do with the hundreds of thousands of people born and bred in Northern Ireland who don't want to be a part of a UI.

What would you say to those hundreds of thousands of people up north (the majority) who want to remain part of the EU? I didn’t think I would see a border poll in the next 20/30 years but Brexit has changed a lot of things.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

what you do with the hundreds of thousands of people born and bred in Northern Ireland who don't want to be a part of a UI.

The opposite to what they did when they created their rotten little one party Unionist ethno-state.

Fully protected under the constitution, ability to retain British citizenship or as close to it as possible, fully engaged in the democratic process. Retention of Stormont as a devolved-from-Dublin parliament. Keep the PSNI as a regional police force. You know, agreed-upon democratic stuff.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Childish nonsense, I said we learn from the past. We don't want the troubles back, we have to find the best solution that accomplishes that. A UI won't accomplish that.
Also the GFA was about ending the troubles. There are lots of people who voted for that with a short term outlook which was to end the troubles.
A UI is a totally different thing.

You keep avoiding the question, using a lame democracy excuse, about what you do with the hundreds of thousands of people born and bred in Northern Ireland who don't want to be a part of a UI.

Don't say this then if you want to use the past for your argument.

eagle eye wrote:

What happened in the past should remain in the past.

The GFA was and is; a process. If you didn't understand that at the time, that is nobody's fault but your own.

You wish to change it now then you are anti the GFA. Fair enough...own that position and find political representation to vote for.

I support the GFA and all that it means. I have waited democratically for the process to proceed, like many many people.

Like I agreed to in the GFA, those people who don't want to live in a UI have to accept the wishes of the majority, (and the majority have accepted that) because the alternative is to make a minority do something they don't want to do and never got any say in it.

Democracy is hard, it has to be continually worked at and protected...nobody is denying that. But as we tragically know (if you really believe in the 'learn from the past' principle) the alternative is much much harder.

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you are anti-GFA. Own it. And campaign for it to be rescinded. Because otherwise the rest of us democrats will continue to ask for it to be implemented.

I have no issue with the GFA. I think it was a good thing and did its primary job. Mostly. It stopped your psycho mates from killing more innocent people. I know it says that in the future there has to be a vote on an united Ireland. And thats fine. I just don't want that vote at the moment. The reason I don't want that vote is those dickheads who murdered Lyra McKee and then strutted down O'Connell St to show how tough they are, would be out there "campaigning". As would similar dickheads from the other side.

If there was a vote called, I'd vote no to UI.

armaghlad

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Childish nonsense, I said we learn from the past. We don't want the troubles back, we have to find the best solution that accomplishes that. A UI won't accomplish that.
Also the GFA was about ending the troubles. There are lots of people who voted for that with a short term outlook which was to end the troubles.
A UI is a totally different thing.

You keep avoiding the question, using a lame democracy excuse, about what you do with the hundreds of thousands of people born and bred in Northern Ireland who don't want to be a part of a UI.

Loyalists will not be able to mobilise the way they did in the past. Nor will they have the guidance of the state to help them as they did in the past. Most of the last generation of loyalist killers of the 90s have either been shot, overdosed on drugs, forced into exile or died. The remaining ones are in their 50s and 60s lying in their bedsits as alcoholics with PTSD.

The current loyalist paramilitaries are no more than criminal and vigilante gangs with no capacity to mobilise or organise into their previous guises. Politically they have minimal representation (PUP/UVF & (UPRG/UDA). Most loyalists vote DUP who’s leader said she would leave in the event of a UI. I’ll not lose sleep if they follow suit.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Don't say this then if you want to use the past for your argument.

Again with the childish nonsense, posting a few words from a previous post and trying to make it look like something else when I made it very clear in the same post that we should learn from the past.
It's pointless having a discussion with somebody whose intent on cheating their way to a childish bit of oneupmanship. You've been at it throughout the thread. I'm not discussing this anymore with somebody whose constantly acting like a child.

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I have no issue with the GFA. I think it was a good thing and did its primary job. Mostly. It stopped your psycho mates from killing more innocent people. I know it says that in the future there has to be a vote on an united Ireland. And thats fine. I just don't want that vote at the moment. The reason I don't want that vote is those dickheads who murdered Lyra McKee and then strutted down O'Connell St to show how tough they are, would be out there "campaigning". As would similar dickheads from the other side.

If there was a vote called, I'd vote no to UI.

And I think that dissidents will only grow in strength and think that your lazy attitude is encouraging them.

And sorry to disappoint you...there will be no vote on a border poll...YOU agreed to one, when it is called, in the GFA.

Now might be a good time to re-read it and this time...don't compartmentalise it to tally with your view or just with what you wanted. Because that would be selfish..wouldn't it?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Again with the childish nonsense, posting a few words from a previous post and trying to make it look like something else when I made it very clear in the same post that we should learn from the past.
It's pointless having a discussion with somebody whose intent on cheating their way to a childish bit of oneupmanship. You've been at it throughout the thread. I'm not discussing this anymore with somebody whose constantly acting like a child.

Oh forgive me for taking what you said as what you mean.

You said, 'the past should stay in the past', but want to use 'selective' elements of it to illustrate what we all should have learned.

What about people who have 'learned' that partition has been a catastrophic and tragic failure and should be ended?

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And I think that dissidents will only grow in strength and think that your lazy attitude is encouraging them.

And sorry to disappoint you...there will be no vote on a border poll...YOU agreed to one, when it is called, in the GFA.

Now might be a good time to re-read it and this time...don't compartmentalise it to tally with your view or just with what you wanted. Because that would be selfish..wouldn't it?

Maybe if people stopped supporting and justifying the dissidents on both sides then they wouldn't get stronger. This constant BS of "your side did this so our side did that". You do this yourself. You say the Provos are bad but the Brits/Unionists did XYZ so its understandable why they did ABC.

What makes you think I agreed to a border poll? I never did. I think it might be nice one day in the future but I don't want to see one yet.

I do have a question about a border poll. How would it work? Would NI vote and then depending on the result, ROI votes?

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Maybe if people stopped supporting and justifying the dissidents on both sides then they wouldn't get stronger. This constant BS of "your side did this so our side did that". You do this yourself. You say the Provos are bad but the Brits/Unionists did XYZ so its understandable why they did ABC.

What makes you think I agreed to a border poll? I never did. I think it might be nice one day in the future but I don't want to see one yet.

I do have a question about a border poll. How would it work? Would NI vote and then depending on the result, ROI votes?

Jesus...you think you voted for the GFA and support it and you ask...'what makes you think i agreed to a Border poll???'

Wow.

I suggest you read the GFA and other material surrounding it.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Oh forgive me for taking what you said as what you mean.

FrancieBrady wrote:

You said, 'the past should stay in the past', but want to use 'selective' elements of it to illustrate what we all should have learned.

Again with your childish. How about you read it again and see where it says we should learn from the past but I know you won't do that and apologise because you are acting like a child.

FrancieBrady wrote:

What about people who have 'learned' that partition has been a catastrophic and tragic failure and should be ended?

I've already said it was a terrible thing when it happened but this isn't 100 years ago. We have to look at all the people in Northern Ireland today.

Actually I'm not going to bother talking to you because you'll just pick out a few words and try and make it sound like something else.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Again with your childish. How about you read it again and see where it says we should learn from the past but I know you won't do that and apologise because you are acting like a child.

You didn't need to say 'The past should stay in the past' then. That statement deserved to be pointed out because you immediately contradicted it.

Also, you want to 'learn' from selective elements of the past, totally ignoring that the elements you select are consequences of something further in the past.
It's verging on hypocrisy.

I've already said it was a terrible thing when it happened but this isn't 100 years ago. We have to look at all the people in Northern Ireland today.

Actually I'm not going to bother talking to you because you'll just pick out a few words and try and make it sound like something else.

All the people? You have totally ignored the aspirations and expectations of a considerable amount of people so that you can maintain personal financial security and contentment.

Of course you will 'not bother talking' because you cannot justify your position, either under the terms of the GFA you pretend to support or in basic common sense terms. 'We should leave the past in the past BUT remember that time themuns did......'

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus...you think you voted for the GFA and support it and you ask...'what makes you think i agreed to a Border poll???'

Wow.

I suggest you read the GFA and other material surrounding it.

You assume that I voted for the GFA. I didn't. Never said I did either.

jm08

20-30 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You assume that I voted for the GFA. I didn't. Never said I did either.

Too young?