How long before Irish reunification?

jm08

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Ian Paisley always claimed he was an Irishman. Just an FYI.

No, he did not.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

What your missing is that I don't see through nationalist or unionist goggles like most of the regular posters in this thread.
You hate Unionists, it's so evident from everything you post in this thread and the way you treat downcow. He is a Unionist and he's shown bias too but he is a hell of a lot more unbiased than you and others.

I don't 'hate' Unionists and have many unionist friends and relations on my partners side.
I hate 'belligerent Unionists and bigoted ones. I make no secret or apology for that.

jm08

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

That apology from the subversives doesn't look wholesome. I can certainly see where downcow is coming from.

Something like 'we were wrong to do what we did, there's no excuse for all the lives we took, we wholeheartedly apologise for all the wrong we did, the lives that were lost and the pain and suffering we caused many families. '

That apology from both sides would be better I think.

Even Jeffrey Donalson believed it would be a genuine apology from PIRA if the ceasefire held, which it has. Not so the loyalist paramilitaries.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

jm08 wrote:

No, he did not.

This is a quote from him,

"I was born in the island of Ireland. I have Irish traits in me - we don't all have the traits of what came from Scotland, there is the celtic factor... and I am an Irishman because you cannot be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman"

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

I don't 'hate' Unionists and have many unionist friends and relations on my partners side. I hate 'belligerent Unionists and bigoted ones. I make no secret or apology for that.

You do realise that you are a beligerant nationalist?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

That apology from the subversives doesn't look wholesome.

By threat of mass murder Unionists subverted the will of the Irish people in 1918. When there's an apology by Unionists for creating their rotten little one-party entho-state then we can take it from there.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

You do realise that you are a beligerant nationalist?

How so?

I support the GFA to the letter. I never 'supported' the IRA. I believed all the violence was wrong from the beginning, which was partition.

I support unification only by majority consent.

I will 'guarantee' to be peaceful if a Border Poll decides against unification.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

By threat of mass murder Unionists subverted the will of the Irish people in 1918. When there's an apology by Unionists for creating their rotten little one-party entho-state then we can take it from there.

So playing Childish games.
You know what that does? It makes it clear that there is too much hate on at least one side for there to be any possibility of a United Ireland for many, many years.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

How so?

It's how you come across in the thread. I'd be pretty certain it's why a certain poster has you on ignore.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

So playing Childish games.
You know what that does? It makes it clear that there is too much hate on at least one side for there to be any possibility of a United Ireland for many, many years.

Read the Good Friday Agreement and you will see it bears no resemblance to the whacky terms-and-conditions you're inventing as you go along.

50% +1 vote.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

It's how you come across in the thread. I'd be pretty certain it's why a certain poster has you on ignore.

He has me on ignore because his belligerent mask has slipped and slipped quite badly, he doesn't like to be challenged, anyone can see that.

Somebody who is here to debate genuinely does not need to use the ignore button. That is the action of somebody who is hiding something.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

You made a statement that republicans had never acknowledged or apologised for the hurt they had caused to people. Well you are wrong on that so how about acknowledging this.



Being unable to accept the apology is entirely up to you, but at least admit that no matter what SF/republicans say or do, it will never be enough so the only option left is a UI to try and dilute the sectarianism.


As to your latest divertion effort with another question - to put it to bed - yes I believe it was neverthe intention to injure iñnocent civilians (and henceforth the phone calls before bombs went off (unlike the loyalist paramilitaries). I would also point out that I accepted David Irvines expressions of regret by his efforts to get the GFA to work and have a lot of admiration for him despite his past.

This sums up the problem, and shows how far we are apart. You are either completely naïve or you are trying to be extremely offensive. The IRA carried out an onslaught against noncombatant Protestants (Kingsmills, is just one of many). This is why apologies from you or the IRA, whilst in complete denial of the reality, is just a nonsense and not an apology at all

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

He has me on ignore because his belligerent mask has slipped and slipped quite badly, he doesn't like to be challenged, anyone can see that.

He is far more reasonable than you and others who regularly post here.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Read the Good Friday Agreement and you will see it bears no resemblance to the whacky terms-and-conditions you're inventing as you go along.

I didn't invent any terms, I suggested a proper apology which would be a humane thing to do.
But you and all your hate are looking for things that aren't there.

downcow

blinding wrote: »

The Unionists seem to think being on the Island of Ireland was the same as Being a Big Island Brit. With Brexit , Boris has let Unionists very well know that they are on the Island of Ireland. Do they not teach the Irish Unionists Geography at School.

If you have not already noticed, you are also on the island of Ireland. I am really not sure what your point is? Do you really think anybody in Northern Ireland did not know what geographical landmass they lived on?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

He is far more reasonable than you and others who regularly post here.

Somebody who has said he 'could not guarantee to be peaceful' in the event of a UI coming to pass as a result of the GFA that he says he agrees with and supports is more reasonable?

The problem is you didn't see the hypocrisy that was exposed again and again in this posters offerings.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

By threat of mass murder Unionists subverted the will of the Irish people in 1918. When there's an apology by Unionists for creating their rotten little one-party entho-state then we can take it from there.

Junkyard. Did you ever consider why Protestants were so fearful I united Ireland removed from the protection of the UK. I'm sure you're very aware that many Protestants, probably a majority, supported a united Ireland. What did your people do to make my people change their aspiration out of absolute fear of what you might do to them - or continue doing to them only on a greater scale?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

But you and all your hate are looking for things that aren't there.

I hate nobody.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

This sums up the problem, and shows how far we are apart. You are either completely naïve or you are trying to be extremely offensive. The IRA carried out an onslaught against noncombatant Protestants (Kingsmills, is just one of many). This is why apologies from you or the IRA, whilst in complete denial of the reality, is just a nonsense and not an apology at all

More of the victimhood...totally ignoring what Loyalists were up to at the time.

It was a bloody mess at the time with three sides engaged in obscenity after obscenity.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Somebody who has said he 'could not guarantee to be peaceful' in the event of a UI coming to pass as a result of the GFA that he says he agrees with and supports is more reasonable?

Well he seems honest and more unbiased than you and others in this thread. It's nice to see he is honest in his thoughts of what might happen if we came close to a United Ireland. I've predicted that there would be troubles if plans advance towards it.
The solution is for Unionists and Nationalists to educate their kids that they are all the same and in about fifty years time, when all those who were involved or even just remember the troubles are long gone, the people of Northern Ireland can decide what way they want to move forward.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Junkyard. Did you ever consider why Protestants were so fearful I united Ireland removed from the protection of the UK.

Britain's protection wasn't going to evaporate and Unionists had plenty of guns to defend themselves with.

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Junkyard. Did you ever consider why Protestants were so fearful I united Ireland removed from the protection of the UK. I'm sure you're very aware that many Protestants, probably a majority, supported a united Ireland. What did your people do to make my people change their aspiration out of absolute fear of what you might do to them - or continue doing to them only on a greater scale?

You know something, that is something I would very much like to hear. The Unionist version of the history of Ireland.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

I've predicted that there would be troubles if plans advance towards it.

So? You want to subvert the will of the people again because a bunch of drug-dealing UVF thugs start rioting?

Now that would cause trouble, and not just in the north.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Now that would cause trouble, and not just in the north.

What does that mean?

Fr D Maugire

eagle eye wrote: »

Well he seems honest and more unbiased than you and others in this thread. It's nice to see he is honest in his thoughts of what might happen if we came close to a United Ireland. I've predicted that there would be troubles if plans advance towards it.
The solution is for Unionists and Nationalists to educate their kids that they are all the same and in about fifty years time, when all those who were involved or even just remember the troubles are long gone, the people of Northern Ireland can decide what way they want to move forward.

Your problem is you take 'the troubles' in isolation to everything that came before. You need to go and have a proper reading of Irish history, not just a brief overview which seems to be about your level of knowledge

downcow

eagle eye wrote: »

You do realise that you are a beligerant nationalist?

It's quite funny seeing your responses, but yet being spared from the initial statement that you are responding to.
I dread to think what sort of stuff is being said to you.

I am friendly with a belligerent Unionist locally, who married a lovely nationalist woman (I also know her family very well). They were a family who were very proud of their culture, very involved Irish language, dance and music - she was in fact Irish dance champion.
She married this Unionist and it is really sad to watch. She has completely given up her culture and identity. She brings her kids to band parades, the twelfth, and they attend a Free Presbyterian Church. She and her kids have zero to do with the culture she was brought up in. Her husband could certainly come on here and say how he is married to a catholic who is so different from all those 'bad Catholics'. He could say how she believes in remaining in the UK and thinks Sinn Fein and the SDLP are just bigots.

Ironically, this man reminds me of a certain poster on here. It is actually very very sad. I would love to see her kids be allowed to enjoy and celebrate the culture and identity of their mums upbringing - but that would create embarrassment within her husband's friends network. He has to prove that she is even more Unionist than those brought up in a Unionist tradition. This is not unusual here on either side, but it is very sad

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Well he seems honest and more unbiased than you and others in this thread. It's nice to see he is honest in his thoughts of what might happen if we came close to a United Ireland. I've predicted that there would be troubles if plans advance towards it.

How wonderful that he has your support and sympathy.

The solution is for Unionists and Nationalists to educate their kids that they are all the same and in about fifty years time, when all those who were involved or even just remember the troubles are long gone, the people of Northern Ireland can decide what way they want to move forward.

So the next 50 years is all going to be peace and milk and honey?

The 'solution' has been agreed in the GFA. Follow that and we have peace and can build a normal society.

But look what happens if one of the main clauses of that agreement comes near...you have belligerent Unionists on here talking about 'not being peaceful' about a possible outcome. You have partitionists talkig about a majority not being enough.

But yet others are not being 'reasonable'.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain's protection wasn't going to evaporate and Unionists had plenty of guns to defend themselves with.

I asked you to consider what WAS the reason. Not what WAS NOT the reason. Interesting that you answer the opposite to the question I ask?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

What does that mean?

If people like you tried to prevent a United Ireland because of UVF thugs then you'd essentially be standing with them and trying to subvert the democratically expressed will of the Irish people again.

How do you think that would go down around the country? From Cork to Donegal and Dublin to Galway. How would that play out?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Fr D Maugire wrote:

Your problem is you take 'the troubles' in isolation to everything that came before. You need to go and have a proper reading of Irish history, not just a brief overview which seems to be about your level of knowledge

I know all the history but Northern Ireland can't move forward until such time as the hate between many Unionists and Nationalists is gone.