How long before Irish reunification?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

I asked you to consider what WAS the reason. Not what WAS NOT the reason. Interesting that you answer the opposite to the question I ask?

I'd say a combination of paranoia, a superiority complex, religious hatred, and unwillingness to give up their dominance. Protestants who stayed in the south did well for themselves generally.

Fr D Maugire

eagle eye wrote: »

I know all the history but Northern Ireland can't move forward until such time as the hate between many Unionists and Nationalists is gone.

I doubt very much that you do based on your posts.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

If people like you tried to prevent a United Ireland because of UVF thugs then you'd essentially be standing with them and trying to subvert the democratically expressed will of the Irish people again.

I think if you move forward with a United Ireland that the Unionist paramilitaries will come down to the republic and start troubles down here. Then some form of IRA will start up north in response.

Junkyard Tom wrote:

How do you think that would go down around the country? From Cork to Donegal and Dublin to Galway. How would that play out?

I don't think there is a majority in favour of a United Ireland in the Republic. People signed up to stop the troubles but didn't really look beyond that.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Your problem is you take 'the troubles' in isolation to everything that came before. You need to go and have a proper reading of Irish history, not just a brief overview which seems to be about your level of knowledge

Your problem Father is that you seem to think that Ireland should somehow be unique. It is fine to move on from where we are in every other country in the world. No demand to give Australia, New Zealand, USA, etc, etc, back to their people's. No demand to get rid of Spanish in South America and go back to the native languages. No demand for Catalonia, Basque, Kosovo, etc, to just keep their heads down and ignore their aspirations just because they share a landmass. Etc, etc, etc. no demand to trawl through history in all these countries and try and work out who actually owns them.
But on this island we should do all of the above, and chuck a million people out whose ancestors have been here, under the same rule for, for at least 400 years.

Take a big look at your hypocrisy

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd say a combination of paranoia, a superiority complex, religious hatred, and unwillingness to give up their dominance. Protestants who stayed in the south did well for themselves generally.

..... And your people are squeakyclean and have nothing to do with. You could not make it up lol

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

the Unionist paramilitaries will come down to the republic and start troubles down here.

For what? Don't slink away now, tell me what unionist drug-dealing thugs would want? Remember now that Unionists are a minority in the north, in Belfast, in Derry and in four of the six counties.

What would they hope to achieve by kicking off?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It's quite funny seeing your responses, but yet being spared from the initial statement that you are responding to.
I dread to think what sort of stuff is being said to you.

I am friendly with a belligerent Unionist locally, who married a lovely nationalist woman (I also know her family very well). They were a family who were very proud of their culture, very involved Irish language, dance and music - she was in fact Irish dance champion.
She married this Unionist and it is really sad to watch. She has completely given up her culture and identity. She brings her kids to band parades, the twelfth, and they attend a Free Presbyterian Church. She and her kids have zero to do with the culture she was brought up in. Her husband could certainly come on here and say how he is married to a catholic who is so different from all those 'bad Catholics'. He could say how she believes in remaining in the UK and thinks Sinn Fein and the SDLP are just bigots.

Ironically, this man reminds me of a certain poster on here. It is actually very very sad. I would love to see her kids be allowed to enjoy and celebrate the culture and identity of their mums upbringing - but that would create embarrassment within her husband's friends network. He has to prove that she is even more Unionist than those brought up in a Unionist tradition. This is not unusual here on either side, but it is very sad

And......a hamfisted invention of people who don't exist to have a go at me. While pretending to ignore me.

Read a few articles on how southern protestants view the activities of some northern ones and the activities of the OO.
You'll see that my partners view is not a singular one at all.

Instead of buying books that reinforce your siege mentalities and victimhood complex, try buying some written by your own faith that challenge your prejudices and misconceptions.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/protestants-in-ireland-a-minority-in-search-of-an-identity-1.3821835

statesaver

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

You know something, that is something I would very much like to hear. The Unionist version of the history of Ireland.

Ex DUP Ruth Patterson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1bFfxLCnY


A history lesson from Ruth Patterson

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

What would they hope to achieve by kicking off?

Prevent a UI obviously.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Prevent a UI obviously.

Contrary to what downcow leads you to believe, the vast majority of Unionism has said it will accept the result of a Border Poll.
Belligerent Unionism has long since lost the ability to mount a campaign to achieve anything. Parades, Flegs, the Anglo Irish Agreement, The GFA itself and most recently, a border in the Irish Sea.

Belligerent Unionism has had it's day.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Contrary to what downcow leads you to believe, the vast majority of Unionism has said it will accept the result of a Border Poll. Belligerent Unionism has long since lost the ability to mount a campaign to achieve anything. Parades, Flegs, the Anglo Irish Agreement, The GFA itself and most recently, a border in the Irish Sea.

I know there is still too much hate in certain sections for it not to happen.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

I know there is still too much hate in certain sections for it not to happen.

You're like some sort of crazy cleric who insists that an abused person forgives their abuser.

Unionists will not be forced to make peace with Republican history and Republicans don't have to make peace with Unionist history.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Junkyard Tom wrote:

Unionists will not be forced to make peace with Republican history and Republicans don't have to make peace with Unionist history.

Yes, that s why we I'm saying that kids have to be taught that they are all the same and in about fifty years that Northern Ireland will be in a place to make a decision that suits all their residents.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, that s why we I'm saying that kids have to be taught that they are all the same and in about fifty years that Northern Ireland will be in a place to make a decision that suits all their residents.

More of your ridiculous term and conditions. Nobody cares.

Read the GFA, there is no requirement for rainbows and care bears and ponies.

armaghlad

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

The solution is for Unionists and Nationalists to educate their kids that they are all the same and in about fifty years time, when all those who were involved or even just remember the troubles are long gone, the people of Northern Ireland can decide what way they want to move forward.

I’m not sure. A number of Unionist politicians were gloating over Loughgall at the weekend. One of them would have been 4 years of age at the time.

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

Your problem Father is that you seem to think that Ireland should somehow be unique. It is fine to move on from where we are in every other country in the world. No demand to give Australia, New Zealand, USA, etc, etc, back to their people's. No demand to get rid of Spanish in South America and go back to the native languages. No demand for Catalonia, Basque, Kosovo, etc, to just keep their heads down and ignore their aspirations just because they share a landmass. Etc, etc, etc. no demand to trawl through history in all these countries and try and work out who actually owns them.
But on this island we should do all of the above, and chuck a million people out whose ancestors have been here, under the same rule for, for at least 400 years.

Take a big look at your hypocrisy

No hypocrisy, in fact you are showing the hypocrisy. Those countries you listed all forged their own identities separate from the mother state, based on shared viewpoints of their peoples. I pointed this out before, but the success of those nations is what inspired many of the Irish Nationalist ideas(which included Catholic and Protestants) of the 18/19th whether independant from Britain or part of Britain(Home Rule). Problem was there was always one group who were opposed to such ideals. Guess who they were.

As for European history, a quick scan would make you realise that Irish history is relatively straight forward in comparison. Basqus are happy enough with their level of autonomy which is something I suggested for NI before. Catalans aspirations are more based on financial reasons cloaked in in Nationalistic reasons.

I would still like the Unionist version of history just for a more rounded idea of Irish History.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, that s why we I'm saying that kids have to be taught that they are all the same and in about fifty years that Northern Ireland will be in a place to make a decision that suits all their residents.

What about just showing them that they are all the same...by removing partition?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

What about just showing them that they are all the same...by removing partition?

There's too much hate on both sides for that to work.

Fr D Maugire

statesaver wrote: »

Ex DUP Ruth Patterson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1bFfxLCnY


A history lesson from Ruth Patterson[/quote

My lord, the level of stupidityin that is unreal. The Celts displaced her people? Was there Unionists in Ireland 2000+ years ago.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

There's too much hate on both sides for that to work.

There isn't.

The majority signed up to the GFA...that was when the process started.

Again, despite the chest thumping and puffery, the vast majority are willing to observe what they agreed to in that agreement.

Don't confuse a 'preferred outcome' with hate. Unionists are not to be feared here, a handful of belligerent Unionists meeting in the upstairs rooms of pubs are, but should they really be allowed to subvert the will of a majority?

What would that be admitting to 'the young'?

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

statesaver wrote: »

Ex DUP Ruth Patterson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1bFfxLCnY


A history lesson from Ruth Patterson[/quote

My lord, the level of stupidityin that is unreal. The Celts displaced her people? Was there Unionists in Ireland 2000+ years ago.

Ruth Patterson is hardly a mainstream Unionist, and a long way from me politically, but I think the point she was making was that no one has a divine right to own and run any part of this island. Like the world over, wars and defeats led to changes in who was in control. The Celts do not own Ireland.

I am not interested in going back 2000 years like Ruth or 200 years like you, I believe we move forward from where we are. I think that is what the GFA was asking us to do - accept that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and that the majority of the people who live in Northern Ireland want it to remain that way. If there is ever a majority whos desire is to be absorbed into our neighbouring country, then that will happen. I have signed up to that, and accept that completely and absolutely, but should that ever happen then I along with the guts of 1 million other people will work very hard to break away. Undoubtedly that will begin with demands for more autonomy, if not for the whole of Northern Ireland, then for the part of it for which the majority of people want that autonomy. That autonomy I trust, will lead to a situation that is to all intent and purpose a separate state.
I also trust that the ROI state will protect our rights in the same way as the British state is protecting Irish rights in Northern Ireland currently. In the same way as nationalists do not have to look at loyalist band parades, etc, and in the same way as people are now receiving payouts when they have to walk past a picture of the head of state in government buildings, etc. This great ROI government will surely not allow us to have to look at Irish language on our road signs or any trappings of the state in our workplace.

It is of course hypothetical, but it would lead to many interesting decades of turmoil

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Again, despite the chest thumping and puffery, the vast majority are willing to observe what they agreed to in that agreement.

The vast majority where? Have you figures from an official source? I don't want figures from some online poll which isn't worth anything.
I'm of the opinion that most people in the Republic signed up to stop the troubles and didn't concern themselves with the long term picture.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

The vast majority where? Have you figures from an official source? I don't want figures from some online poll which isn't worth anything.
I'm of the opinion that most people in the Republic signed up to stop the troubles and didn't concern themselves with the long term picture.

The vast majority who supported the GFA. Who have not wavered from it and still uphold it as the template for the future.

Have you any data on your opinion?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Ruth Patterson is hardly a mainstream Unionist, and a long way from me politically, but I think the point she was making was that no one has a divine right to own and run any part of this island. Like the world over, wars and defeats led to changes in who was in control. The Celts do not own Ireland.

I am not interested in going back 2000 years like Ruth or 200 years like you, I believe we move forward from where we are. I think that is what the GFA was asking us to do - accept that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and that the majority of the people who live in Northern Ireland want it to remain that way. If there is ever a majority whos desire is to be absorbed into our neighbouring country, then that will happen. I have signed up to that, and accept that completely and absolutely, but should that ever happen then I along with the guts of 1 million other people will work very hard to break away. Undoubtedly that will begin with demands for more autonomy, if not for the whole of Northern Ireland, then for the part of it for which the majority of people want that autonomy. That autonomy I trust, will lead to a situation that is to all intent and purpose a separate state.
I also trust that the ROI state will protect our rights in the same way as the British state is protecting Irish rights in Northern Ireland currently. In the same way as nationalists do not have to look at loyalist band parades, etc, and in the same way as people are now receiving payouts when they have to walk past a picture of the head of state in government buildings, etc. This great ROI government will surely not allow us to have to look at Irish language on our road signs or any trappings of the state in our workplace.

It is of course hypothetical, but it would lead to many interesting decades of turmoil

How do you own and run an island?

Have you stopped to think about that?

Nobody is removing your franchise or gerrymandering in a UI.

You will have just as much ownership as somebody in Kerry or Galway has.

'Owned'? what nonsense.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Undoubtedly that will begin with demands for more autonomy, if not for the whole of Northern Ireland, then for the part of it for which the majority of people want that autonomy. That autonomy I trust, will lead to a situation that is to all intent and purpose a separate state.

Re-partition? Forget it.

statesaver

downcow wrote: »

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Ruth Patterson is hardly a mainstream Unionist, and a long way from me politically, but I think the point she was making was that no one has a divine right to own and run any part of this island. Like the world over, wars and defeats led to changes in who was in control. The Celts do not own Ireland.

I am not interested in going back 2000 years like Ruth or 200 years like you, I believe we move forward from where we are. I think that is what the GFA was asking us to do - accept that Northern Ireland is part of the UK and that the majority of the people who live in Northern Ireland want it to remain that way. If there is ever a majority whos desire is to be absorbed into our neighbouring country, then that will happen. I have signed up to that, and accept that completely and absolutely, but should that ever happen then I along with the guts of 1 million other people will work very hard to break away. Undoubtedly that will begin with demands for more autonomy, if not for the whole of Northern Ireland, then for the part of it for which the majority of people want that autonomy. That autonomy I trust, will lead to a situation that is to all intent and purpose a separate state.
I also trust that the ROI state will protect our rights in the same way as the British state is protecting Irish rights in Northern Ireland currently. In the same way as nationalists do not have to look at loyalist band parades, etc, and in the same way as people are now receiving payouts when they have to walk past a picture of the head of state in government buildings, etc. This great ROI government will surely not allow us to have to look at Irish language on our road signs or any trappings of the state in our workplace.

It is of course hypothetical, but it would lead to many interesting decades of turmoil

Was she not a MLA ?

Re - partition ? That will just make the region poorer that it already is.

You can't eat flegs lads

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

The vast majority who supported the GFA. Who have not wavered from it and still uphold it as the template for the future.

So no recent data then.

FrancieBrady wrote:

Have you any data on your opinion?

What part of 'my opinion' did you not understand?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

So no recent data then.


What part of 'my opinion' did you not understand?

Loads of polls which you will no doubt refuse to countenance. But the relevancy of the GFA and the fact that it is strong and still believed in was evident during Brexit.
Despite May and Johnson's shennanigans there was NO way they were going to break it.


I asked what was your opinion based on? Just looking out the window or on anything tangible?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

What your missing is that I don't see through nationalist or unionist goggles like most of the regular posters in this thread.
You hate Unionists, it's so evident from everything you post in this thread and the way you treat downcow. He is a Unionist and he's shown bias too but he is a hell of a lot more unbiased than you and others.

Gas.

I hate Unionists now apparently.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

He is far more reasonable than you and others who regularly post here.

In your opinion.

You really need to start prefacing your posts, because you seem to think that you are some sort of spokesperson.

DC is far beyond reasonable. But you don't see that. And that's okay, your opinions as seen throughout boards, should be taken with as much much salt as is physiologically possible.