How long before Irish reunification?

Edgware

downcow wrote: »

all can say is, wise up
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/revealed-why-40000-protestants-fled-ireland-four-years-1126728

My own father was a family of 11 siblings living in two bedroom cottage in Donegal. While his heart always remained in beautiful Donegal, all 11 siblings moved to the safety and opportunity of Northern Ireland to live. He told many stories of the discrimination. A lot of this resulted from their treatment at school as one of only two protestant families attending and being forced to learn Irish etc. He also told of great catholic neighbours and how him and them would have done anything for eachother

How is "being forced to learn Irish" discrimination? Its a subject on the curriculum. Did you have a choice to give up English, Maths etc. It was government policy to try and increase the usage of the native language. In the Six Counties students learn a largely based English history. Is that discrimination? The system is tied in to the overall British system of education.
Of course there were occasional acts of stupidity by people in low level authority in the South but the Irish government were very aware not to discriminate against non Catholics.
How many of our Presidents were Church of Ireland? Seats reserved in the Senate for TCD .
I have never heard of a person in the South being denied a house because they were non Catholic. The consituency and district councils werent gerrymandered

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

all can say is, wise up
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/revealed-why-40000-protestants-fled-ireland-four-years-1126728

My own father was a family of 11 siblings living in two bedroom cottage in Donegal. While his heart always remained in beautiful Donegal, all 11 siblings moved to the safety and opportunity of Northern Ireland to live. He told many stories of the discrimination. A lot of this resulted from their treatment at school as one of only two protestant families attending and being forced to learn Irish etc. He also told of great catholic neighbours and how him and them would have done anything for eachother

Ah the ever curmudgeonly Mr Bury gets quoted as a source again.

The same Mr Bury that confers the title of 'Catholic Protestant' on any Protestant that had any truck with the new state, like Martin Mansergh.

It's another book full of the exact same victimhood that downcow has displayed here. No other view is tolerated or discussed in it, Bury even ignores the testimony of other Protestants in the new state. There is 'one' narrative only.

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone attending school in ireland learns irish?

They werent being discriminated againest,infact the absolute opposite,they were being treated the same as everyone else?

Blaaz, Here is your problem summed up by Liam Kennedy.
“There is an almost palpable sense of victimhood and exceptionalism in the presentation of the Irish national past, particularly as reconstructed and displayed for political purpose. It is a syndrome of attitudes that might be summed up by the acronym Mope, that is, the most oppressed people ever. Less extravagantly stated, the claim is to being one of the most oppressed people in the history of world civilisation. But the burden of the story so far is that there was a large gap between images of singular oppression and the material and cultural conditions which were the lot of people in Ireland.”

You are somehow a victim because most unionists democratically oppose an Irish language Act

....and during your great universal mass uprising 400 irish people died fighting the cause of Easter Rising. Meanwhile 40,000 Irishmen died fighting on the British side in the World war.
What does that tell you about how your people have skewed history?

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

all can say is, wise up
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/revealed-why-40000-protestants-fled-ireland-four-years-1126728

My own father was a family of 11 siblings living in two bedroom cottage in Donegal. While his heart always remained in beautiful Donegal, all 11 siblings moved to the safety and opportunity of Northern Ireland to live. He told many stories of the discrimination. A lot of this resulted from their treatment at school as one of only two protestant families attending and being forced to learn Irish etc. He also told of great catholic neighbours and how him and them would have done anything for eachother

Downcow learning the national language of a country isn't discrimination.

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Blaaz, Here is your problem summed up by Liam Kennedy.
“There is an almost palpable sense of victimhood and exceptionalism in the presentation of the Irish national past, particularly as reconstructed and displayed for political purpose. It is a syndrome of attitudes that might be summed up by the acronym Mope, that is, the most oppressed people ever. Less extravagantly stated, the claim is to being one of the most oppressed people in the history of world civilisation. But the burden of the story so far is that there was a large gap between images of singular oppression and the material and cultural conditions which were the lot of people in Ireland.”

You are somehow a victim because most unionists democratically oppose an Irish language Act

....and during your great universal mass uprising 400 irish people died fighting the cause of Easter Rising. Meanwhile 40,000 Irishmen died fighting on the British side in the World war.
What does that tell you about how your people have skewed history?

That the 40,000 that died fighting for One Empire against other Empires were very very foolish. They were fighting Rich Mens wars for fook all !

As George Carlin said, Why were they so foolish as to turn up ? ? ?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Seems the whole basis of your stance is based on some special Devine need an island has to be one country.

Actually, I would have been quite happy for two separate jurisdictions if the GFA had worked out (in particular to pariety of esteem). That plainly hasn't happened and then Brexit changed everything with the prospect of a hard border back on the island.

Seems you wanted the people of one wee part of the uk to be allowed to break away 100 years ago just because a majority of it wanted to? Yet you scoff at the idea of a wee part of a hypothetical UI being allowed to break away if there is a majority? What is the difference except one is geographical area? Would you apply this same rule to insist Canada and USA unite?

Ireland didn't break away from the UK. It got Home Rule within the Commonwealth, but with its own parliament in Dublin. Similar to the status of Scotland now. Unionists really messed up there because they were the ones that put a major crack in the United Kingdom of GB & Ireland, losing about 1/3 of its territory and more importantly its ports that England wanted as protection from invasion.



As for the US & Canada - both countries are actually viable and there is a natural physical boundary of rivers, lakes and desert between the 2 countries. A better analagy would be Quebec in Canada who have had several referendums over the years on sovereignty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement



No one is going to force a UI. That will only come about through the ballot box in a referendum. Why are you afraid of a referendum?

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Actually, I would have been quite happy for two separate jurisdictions if the GFA had worked out (in particular to pariety of esteem). That plainly hasn't happened and then Brexit changed everything with the prospect of a hard border back on the island.






Ireland didn't break away from the UK. It got Home Rule within the Commonwealth, but with its own parliament in Dublin. Similar to the status of Scotland now. Unionists really messed up there because they were the ones that put a major crack in the United Kingdom of GB & Ireland, losing about 1/3 of its territory and more importantly its ports that England wanted as protection from invasion.



As for the US & Canada - both countries are actually viable and there is a natural physical boundary of rivers, lakes and desert between the 2 countries. A better analagy would be Quebec in Canada who have had several referendums over the years on sovereignty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_sovereignty_movement



No one is going to force a UI. That will only come about through the ballot box in a referendum. Why are you afraid of a referendum?

I am certainly not afraid of a referendum

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

I am certainly not afraid of a referendum

At the moment it looks like Unionists have nothing to fear from a referendum.

I don’t know why they don’t call for one then ! ! !

Mad_maxx

munsterlegend wrote: »

Bryson is laughable. Thanks he can gather the troops together like Paisley 40/50 years ago and then he just gives up and it all falls apart.

bryson is no paisley , paisley had charisma , bryson looks like spud from trainspotting

armaghlad

10-15 years

blinding wrote: »

At the moment it looks like Unionists have nothing to fear from a referendum.

I don’t know why they don’t call for one then ! ! !

They’re afraid to even discuss the prospect of a UI. The mentality seems to be, if we talk about it (however unlikely it may be) we have already surrendered. Even the arch-loyalist politician Peter Robinson conceded that they need to prepare for the possibility of it happening. Arlene Foster has said that she won’t see a border poll or UI in her lifetime but also says she would leave the country in such an event. Other loyalists such as Gregory Campbell have suggested they would take up arms if a UI seemed likely.

Edgware

blinding wrote: »

At the moment it looks like Unionists have nothing to fear from a referendum.

I don’t know why they don’t call for one then ! ! !

Why would they waste the energy on it just to keep you happy?

Hamsterchops

Mad_maxx wrote: »

bryson is no paisley , paisley had charisma , bryson looks like spud from trainspotting

That's because he's from Swansea. Good mates with Steeve Coogan.

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

all can say is, wise up
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/revealed-why-40000-protestants-fled-ireland-four-years-1126728

My own father was a family of 11 siblings living in two bedroom cottage in Donegal. While his heart always remained in beautiful Donegal, all 11 siblings moved to the safety and opportunity of Northern Ireland to live. He told many stories of the discrimination. A lot of this resulted from their treatment at school as one of only two protestant families attending and being forced to learn Irish etc. He also told of great catholic neighbours and how him and them would have done anything for eachother

You might be interested in an article by a southern protestant, Victoria White. Some of the comments she makes:

My grandfather prospered as a chartered accountant and used to say that coming to Ireland had helped him escape his working-class background. He was joining a privileged minority; in Cork City, in 1916, Protestants comprised 7% of the population, but owned 60% of the cars.


While, by the 1960s, merit was largely replacing religion as the main asset in a job interview in this country, members of the Church of Ireland comprised 15% of business directors, managers, and company secretaries, but comprised only 4% of employed men.

It is extremely troubling that Bury describes Gaelic-speaking Protestants, such as Hyde, as “Catholic Protestants”, a phrase he ascribes to George Moore, as well as their description, “cunning, subtle, cajoling, superficial and affable”, which is a classic racist stereotype.

The counter-argument runs through the essays that Irish Protestants quickly adapted to the new State and were, by 1937, in the words of the historian Roy Foster, “more or less uncomplicatedly Irish”.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/columnists/role-of-this-states-protestants-will-be-crucial-in-post-brexit-ireland-922823.html


As for your father leaving Donegal for a better life in Northern Ireland - have a look at the emigration stats for the island of Ireland since the Act of Union. And they were mostly catholics.

downcow

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

Blaaz, Here is your problem summed up by Liam Kennedy.
“There is an almost palpable sense of victimhood and exceptionalism in the presentation of the Irish national past, particularly as reconstructed and displayed for political purpose. It is a syndrome of attitudes that might be summed up by the acronym Mope, that is, the most oppressed people ever. Less extravagantly stated, the claim is to being one of the most oppressed people in the history of world civilisation. But the burden of the story so far is that there was a large gap between images of singular oppression and the material and cultural conditions which were the lot of people in Ireland.”

You are somehow a victim because most unionists democratically oppose an Irish language Act

....and during your great universal mass uprising 400 irish people died fighting the cause of Easter Rising. Meanwhile 40,000 Irishmen died fighting on the British side in the World war.
What does that tell you about how your people have skewed history?

Mate,your some craic accusing others of victimhood,while saying learning irish in.school.is discrimination

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

Blaaz, Here is your problem summed up by Liam Kennedy.
“There is an almost palpable sense of victimhood and exceptionalism in the presentation of the Irish national past, particularly as reconstructed and displayed for political purpose. It is a syndrome of attitudes that might be summed up by the acronym Mope, that is, the most oppressed people ever. Less extravagantly stated, the claim is to being one of the most oppressed people in the history of world civilisation. But the burden of the story so far is that there was a large gap between images of singular oppression and the material and cultural conditions which were the lot of people in Ireland.”

You are somehow a victim because most unionists democratically oppose an Irish language Act

....and during your great universal mass uprising 400 irish people died fighting the cause of Easter Rising. Meanwhile 40,000 Irishmen died fighting on the British side in the World war.
What does that tell you about how your people have skewed history?

No offense meant D but I can't think of anything more victim than living in a country and feeling triggered because you have to learn a language.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

You might be interested in an article by a southern protestant, Victoria White. Some of the comments she makes:



As for your father leaving Donegal for a better life in Northern Ireland - have a look at the emigration stats for the island of Ireland since the Act of Union. And they were mostly catholics.

You can deny all you like. The facts are the facts on this one. ROI was 10% prod at partition. It is now about 3% - and that has even been boosted by all the non-NI protestants that have arrived over the years.

Yet during the same period the RC population of NI went up from about 30% to about 50%

The stats are clear

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate,your some craic accusing others of victimhood,while saying learning irish in.school.is discrimination

That was just one example. He was forced to learn and sing the Soldiers Song in Irish.

What would you say if we brought in a rule that every school pupil in NI had to learn and sing GSTQ (and maybe even in Ulster scots LOL)?

Would that be discriminatory in your eyes? You'll probably have to remove your blinkers to answer that one

downcow

steddyeddy wrote: »

No offense meant D but I can't think of anything more victim than living in a country and feeling triggered because you have to learn a language.

Well I feel exactly the same about your friends who travel miles in buses to stand waiting all day be offended and discriminated against by a wee parade passing by.
Strange country

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

Well I feel exactly the same about your friends who travel miles in buses to stand waiting all day be offended and discriminated against by a wee parade passing by.
Strange country

I live in England and the US D. I have no friends who travel to be offended. I will say that most of the coverage the DUP we got over here inspired offense.

I remember one immigrant who came here (Hampshire) who complained that him being required to learn English is discrimination. What he said is no different than what you said about Irish.

steddyeddy

downcow wrote: »

You can deny all you like. The facts are the facts on this one. ROI was 10% prod at partition. It is now about 3% - and that has even been boosted by all the non-NI protestants that have arrived over the years.

Yet during the same period the RC population of NI went up from about 30% to about 50%

The stats are clear

They are indeed clear but they're not stats on discrimination whatsoever.

blinding

10-15 years

Edgware wrote: »

Why would they waste the energy on it just to keep you happy?

Would they not like to Bask in the Result ;);)

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

They are indeed clear but they're not stats on discrimination whatsoever.

This victimhood nonsense was all debunked earlier in the thread with links to why Protestant numbers dwindled.

blinding

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This victimhood nonsense was all debunked earlier in the thread with links to why Protestant numbers dwindled.

Sure aren’t the Protestant University students going to Britain to study and then not coming back.

There must be something shameful and embarrassing about the behaviour of their Protestant Forbears in Ireland that they get to understand when abroad and they just can’t face coming back to Ireland ! ! !:eek:

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

You can deny all you like. The facts are the facts on this one. ROI was 10% prod at partition. It is now about 3% - and that has even been boosted by all the non-NI protestants that have arrived over the years.

Yet during the same period the RC population of NI went up from about 30% to about 50%

The stats are clear

And the stats don't explain the withdrawal of the British Civil Service from Ireland or the British Army or the 1000s of protestants killed in the WWI or who remained in the British Army and were shipped out to India and the rest of the Empire, not to mention the creation of a Protestant State for a Protestant People in the North East of Ireland! From what I recall, the traffic was two-way.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Interesting question from Paisley to ask the PM that he helps tourism in NI and ensures that there is assistance against unfair competition from airports in the ROI.

Victimisation is the new browbeating.

Granadino

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

What make ye all of the Sean Cavanagh interview with Pat Spillane where he says "up here in the UK" when discussing the regulations around Covid 19.
Well, an issue amongst a good few nut bags. He's now apparently a soup taker, a sell out, a west Brit, a FG supporter, a traitor, not a fíor gael etc etc. All this coming from keyboard warriors, so I wouldn't be reading too much into it.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Granadino wrote: »

What make ye all of the Sean Cavanagh interview with Pat Spillane where he says "up here in the UK" when discussing the regulations around Covid 19.
Well, an issue amongst a good few nut bags. He's now apparently a soup taker, a sell out, a west Brit, a FG supporter, a traitor, not a fíor gael etc etc. All this coming from keyboard warriors, so I wouldn't be reading too much into it.

Well, I wouldn't read that much into it given the specificity of the context. And he's not wrong. Unfortunately.

---

Watched the segment, weird to hear but context is key.

Sean Cavanagh wrote:

“Up here in the UK it’s a bit bizarre because we are all probably watching Leo (Varadkar), and watching the GAA’s announcements and see ourselves as part of that but equally, in terms of day-to-day living we are waiting on the announcement from Boris (Johnson).”

That's not quite verbatim. Watch the video.

From about 39min.

www.newsletter.co.uk/news/people/vicious-backlash-after-gaa-pundits-here-uk-comment-2848888

Silly word slip. But the keyboard warriors just give ammunition to the likes of DC.

jm08

20-30 years

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Interesting question from Paisley to ask the PM that he helps tourism in NI and ensures that there is assistance against unfair competition from airports in the ROI.

Victimisation is the new browbeating.

How is it unfair competition? The CEO of Tourism Ireland was brought before the Northern Ireland Commons Committee last year, and he explained very clearly how it all worked. (Paisley had been claiming that Dublin Airport was getting grants from Tourism Ireland, which of course was a lie).


The problem for NI Tourism was that most tourist choose to fly into Dublin Airport because there are a lot more flights from all over the world there and no direct flights from the US, their biggest potential market.

armaghlad

10-15 years

Granadino wrote: »

What make ye all of the Sean Cavanagh interview with Pat Spillane where he says "up here in the UK" when discussing the regulations around Covid 19.
Well, an issue amongst a good few nut bags. He's now apparently a soup taker, a sell out, a west Brit, a FG supporter, a traitor, not a fíor gael etc etc. All this coming from keyboard warriors, so I wouldn't be reading too much into it.

Certainly a faux pas in the circumstances but I wouldn’t read anything into it. He can use whatever terminology he wants.

munsterlegend

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Interesting question from Paisley to ask the PM that he helps tourism in NI and ensures that there is assistance against unfair competition from airports in the ROI.

Victimisation is the new browbeating.

Surely Ian could keep an airport going himself with his travel expeditions.