How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

The British public have no say in whether there will ever be a UI.

Latest polling shows that 54% of the British public don't care what happens NI.
53% of the Tory (Conservative and Unionist) Party don't care if NI leaves or not.

This will factor hugely in a decision to have a border poll. It is totally wrong to suggest the British public will have 'no say'.
Their attitude will be monitored closely by the British government.

Hamsterchops

The British public this & the British public that ....

One million of whom live in Northern Ireland.

Just convince that that they're not British anymore and the job is done.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

This will factor hugely in a decision to have a border poll. It is totally wrong to suggest the British public will have 'no say'. Their attitude will be monitored closely by the British government.

I said no say in a UI.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I said no say in a UI.

There won't be a UI until there is a border poll and Britain's public expressing no opposition to one will be a factor.
So they are a part of it, like it or not.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

There won't be a UI until there is a border poll and Britain's public expressing no opposition to one will be a factor. So they are a part of it, like it or not.

No they are part of them leaving the UK not a UI.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The British public this & the British public that ....

One million of whom live in Northern Ireland.

Just convince that that they're not British anymore and the job is done.

It's not popular to say this, but those who live in NI are United Kingdomers, they are not technically British. It is Great Britain and NI.

The latest polls of the British people show that they think the same.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that they identify as British, but that is a growing anomaly that they (nobody else) need to face up to.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

No they are part of them leaving the UK not a UI.

Neither of which will happen until there is a Border Poll.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

It's not popular to say this, but those who live in NI are United Kingdomers, they are not technically British. It is Great Britain and NI.

If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish whether you call yourself Irish or Northern Irish. As I pointed out a couple of days ago even Ian Paisley called himself Irish.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's not popular to say this, but those who live in NI are United Kingdomers, they are not technically British. It is Great Britain and NI.

The latest polls of the British people show that they think the same.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that they identify as British, but that is a growing anomaly that they (nobody else) need to face up to.

Problem is THEY think they're British, even if others tell them they're not, conversely their are millions actually living on the island of Britain who claim not to be British (Many Scots for example), then you have Falkland islanders thousands of miles away from Britain who also claim to be British, not that the Argentinians would agree with that either. Thousands, maybe millions of Irish people born & living in America having never set foot in Ireland, yet they claim & demand to be known as Irish.

In a Northern Irish context, if you are born in the United Kingdom you are automatically British (or Irish) or both.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Problem is THEY think they're British, even if others tell them they're not, conversely their are millions actually living on the island of Britain who claim not to be British (Many Scots for example), then you have Falkland islanders thousands of miles away from Britain who also claim to be British, not that the Argentinians would agree with that either. Thousands, maybe millions of Irish people born & living in America having never set foot in Ireland, yet they claim & demand to be known as Irish.

In a Northern Irish context, if you are born in the United Kingdom you are automatically British (or Irish) or both.

Tell that to the 'British' public. That is the problem Unionists have, a growing number of British people feel they have nothing in common with them.
That IMO is terminal for NI's place in the Union.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish whether you call yourself Irish or Northern Irish. As I pointed out a couple of days ago even Ian Paisley called himself Irish.

No issue at all with that.

Runaways

10-15 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's not really true. Religion is still a big part of Irish culture/society. You might not think that because it is less than it was when you were growing up but as an aetheist immigrant from a secular country, I can tell you that religion is still a big part of Irish life.

What I meant was we don’t all go around in gangs of Catholics just hanging out with Catholics and avoiding Protestants when we’re not beating them up and discriminating against them as happens only in DCs mind

It has no bearing on the day-to-day life with anyone in Ireland in terms of another person or group or a job it just doesn’t come into it but your point I disagree it really isn’t a feature anymore the church is empty every weekend even all over the country it’s more of a wallpaper now that we don’t even see anymore

Runaways

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The British public this & the British public that ....

One million of whom live in Northern Ireland.

Just convince that that they're not British anymore and the job is done.

The last poll done on that topic had the majority identifying as Northern Irish not British not Irish but Northern Irish

Runaways

10-15 years

Are you all up to speed with the Emma DeSousa case?

The Brits are literally trying to tear up the good Friday agreement and this is the first rip

She’s been to our government and the American government about it though so the best of luck to the brits with this

It will backfire hugely but they seem determined to proceed

Hamsterchops

Runaways wrote: »

Are you all up to speed with the Emma DeSousa case?

The Brits are literally trying to tear up the good Friday agreement and this is the first rip

She’s been to our government and the American government about it though so the best of luck to the brits with this

It will backfire hugely but they seem determined to proceed

So if she wins her case, then everybody born in Northern Ireland is automatically Irish (and not British), is that the gist of it?
In which case NI will be out of the UK within a year or two?

Yeah_Right

munsterlegend wrote: »

It’s a part of every country. What’s the anthem of GB? God....

So? The national anthem of NZ is God Defend New Zealand but I can tell you with 100% certainty that religion is not a big factor in day to day life in NZ. In Ireland it is part of the fabric of society. To an outsider, it is very prevalent. At least that is my experience from growing up in NZ and living for over a decade in Ireland.

Hamsterchops

Deleted User wrote: »

No...if she wins case everyone is automatically both imo

Which would be fairest interpetation of the gfa surely,??

Well Ian Paisley senior was famously Irish, albeit in a British context, so he was very proud to be British even though he was Irish

Millions of people already like that in the UK, whether they be British & Irish, Northern Irish & British, Welsh & British, English & British, British-Scots, plus whatever other variation you can think of.

Proud to be Pakistani & British,

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So? The national anthem of NZ is God Defend New Zealand

Incidentally, written by a man born a stone's throw from where I am sitting here in Monaghan.

Yeah_Right

Runaways wrote: »

What I meant was we don’t all go around in gangs of Catholics just hanging out with Catholics and avoiding Protestants when we’re not beating them up and discriminating against them as happens only in DCs mind

It has no bearing on the day-to-day life with anyone in Ireland in terms of another person or group or a job it just doesn’t come into it but your point I disagree it really isn’t a feature anymore the church is empty every weekend even all over the country it’s more of a wallpaper now that we don’t even see anymore

Yeah I get that there isn't discrimination over it but there is judgement from some people. I've experienced it myself when I said that the first time I ever heard Mass was when I went to an Irish wedding.

I realise that the influence of the church has waned but more than 80% (I think) of Irish schools are church schools. Most of the hospitals are church run or owned (aren't they?) Communion, confirmation, baptisms are still a big part of life. Most weddings or funerals are in a church. I'm not criticizing it. I'm just pointing out that to outsiders it can be quite "in your face".

Yeah_Right

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Incidentally, written by a man born a stone's throw from where I am sitting here in Monaghan.

Bloody Paddies forcing their religion on my homeland!! :mad:

Runaways

10-15 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah I get that there isn't discrimination over it but there is judgement from some people. I've experienced it myself when I said that the first time I ever heard Mass was when I went to an Irish wedding.

I realise that the influence of the church has waned but more than 80% (I think) of Irish schools are church schools. Most of the hospitals are church run or owned (aren't they?) Communion, confirmation, baptisms are still a big part of life. Most weddings or funerals are in a church. I'm not criticizing it. I'm just pointing out that to outsiders it can be quite "in your face".

I can only assume you weren’t in Dublin it sounds like you’re in a really small Rurel town to be honest because it is not featuring any any of the major cities at all and no the church no longer has control over the schools they can’t discriminate will come to enrolment

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Bloody Paddies forcing their religion on my homeland!! :mad:

It clearly didn't help youse any!

downcow

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Serious question is "What exactly is a United Ireland" and what would the difference be, between what we have now, to detaching NI from Britain and attaching it to our country?
.

Great Question

downcow

eagle eye wrote: »

If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish whether you call yourself Irish or Northern Irish. As I pointed out a couple of days ago even Ian Paisley called himself Irish.

Eagle Eye. I am absolutely not Irish. I am British, Northern Irish, European. I am not French, Irish or Spanish. No matter how much you wish it.

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

What I meant was we don’t all go around in gangs of Catholics just hanging out with Catholics and avoiding Protestants when we’re not beating them up and discriminating against them as happens only in DCs mind

It has no bearing on the day-to-day life with anyone in Ireland in terms of another person or group or a job it just doesn’t come into it but your point I disagree it really isn’t a feature anymore the church is empty every weekend even all over the country it’s more of a wallpaper now that we don’t even see anymore

Spin what i say if you wish.
Your people may not go to church but many are drawn to their one-sided traditions.
Next you will be telling me that there are as many Rangers supporters clubs in ROI as their are Celtic

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

The last poll done on that topic had the majority identifying as Northern Irish not British not Irish but Northern Irish

....and it is a beautiful trend that is continuing. This is the single greatest obstruction to a UI, people affiliating with NI PLC. The biggest mistake the shinners ever made. 'northern Ireland' has now slipped into much SDLP language and chinks will appear when the odd shinner starts using the term

downcow

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yeah I get that there isn't discrimination over it but there is judgement from some people. I've experienced it myself when I said that the first time I ever heard Mass was when I went to an Irish wedding.

I realise that the influence of the church has waned but more than 80% (I think) of Irish schools are church schools. Most of the hospitals are church run or owned (aren't they?) Communion, confirmation, baptisms are still a big part of life. Most weddings or funerals are in a church. I'm not criticizing it. I'm just pointing out that to outsiders it can be quite "in your face".

Very much my sense as well when I come down from the north

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

I can only assume you weren’t in Dublin it sounds like you’re in a really small Rurel town to be honest because it is not featuring any any of the major cities at all and no the church no longer has control over the schools they can’t discriminate will come to enrolment

Well I was in Dublin recently and was again struck how much catholic paraphernalia was up around walls etc. I was at a conference and you might as well have benn in a monastery with the stuff on the walls. It was fine and very interesting, but unusual for me

jm08

20-30 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So? The national anthem of NZ is God Defend New Zealand but I can tell you with 100% certainty that religion is not a big factor in day to day life in NZ. In Ireland it is part of the fabric of society. To an outsider, it is very prevalent. At least that is my experience from growing up in NZ and living for over a decade in Ireland.

I think what you see is just a cultural difference. If you go to India, Pakistan, Thiland, their various religions are very much in your face in the way they celebrate births, weddings and death. I don't see anything unusual about that - go to parts of the US, and you will find a huge influence of the churches (gospel singing etc). NZ is primarily protestant/anglican and so tend to be less celebratory. If you have been to Northern Ireland, did you notice any difference there or could you have identified more with it?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Runaways wrote: »

The last poll done on that topic had the majority identifying as Northern Irish not British not Irish but Northern Irish

It's largely meaningless as was demonstrated by DC's inability to set out what a distinct NI culture is. It also says nothing about how a person feels on a United Ireland.

Are people from Donegal NIrish? Does it stop precisely at the border or before/after it? Are people who live in the south but work in the north NIrish?

I feel bad for DC as he desperately shoves all his chips on the 'Northern Irish' thing and hopes to table 5 aces.