How long before Irish reunification?

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

Spin what i say if you wish.
Your people may not go to church but many are drawn to their one-sided traditions.
Next you will be telling me that there are as many Rangers supporters clubs in ROI as their are Celtic

That’s not down to religion. That due to identity.

gormdubhgorm

I cannot see it happening. Ordinary people are more concerned with what is important in life health, peace and happiness. I doubt many will really want to shake the hornets nest of those crowd v them crowd. What is it more likely to achieve? Only more pain and suffering for what? Six counties and a line on a map?

It will likely cost lives and a lot money. Money the ROI certainly cannot afford to be wasting for the sake of changing the colour of a few postboxes from red to green.

The six counties of NI have caused the ROI and GB nothing but pain and heartache.
It is a pity both parents cannot put up thier problem child (NI) for adoption.
As any boarder poll now will only cause more violence, death and destruction. Only this time it will be the Unionists who are the 'freedom fighters' and the ROI will be the oppressors.

It all depends on what value you are willing to put on any life lost. As covid19 should have taught the world.

If you think that life is cheap you will be all for a UI to hell with the consequences.
If you really value all life you would keep the status quo keep both sides busy, pretending to govern themselves.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

those crowd v them crowd

That's the problem though, you'll be asked to make a choice of who you stand with. If you want to stand with Unionists/Partitonists so be it but you will have to own the political consequences.

The moment a UI vote happens the issue is an all-Ireland one and not one contained in the north as you, and others, like to fool yourselves into believing

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

I think what you see is just a cultural difference. If you go to India, Pakistan, Thiland, their various religions are very much in your face in the way they celebrate births, weddings and death. I don't see anything unusual about that - go to parts of the US, and you will find a huge influence of the churches (gospel singing etc). NZ is primarily protestant/anglican and so tend to be less celebratory. If you have been to Northern Ireland, did you notice any difference there or could you have identified more with it?

You're right it is cultural. But my point is that the church is ingrained in Irish culture. I would view Ireland as being culturally Catholic as opposed to religiously Catholic. If that makes sense?

I've got a few kiwi, aussie and saffer friends here in Dublin who married Irish women. Out of that group of about a dozen, only 2 of us got married outside of churches. All of those that had kids, had to get them baptized due to either her family wanting it or for school. Another poster said that the church doesn't control the schools any more but thats not what my mates are telling me. I don't have kids so I don't know. I never knew what communions or confirmations were when I moved here, now I've been to dozens of them.

Its these cultural differences that could cause tension or problems in some communities in a united Ireland. I don't know how exactly but some people might view it as an attack on or an oppression of their culture.

Yes I have been to NI. Definitely didn't identify with anything in particular up there. In Belfast I was too busy staring at giant "peace" walls and murals of hatred and bigotry. In a couple of the small towns, had some uncomfortable conversations with locals in pubs that felt like they were trying to determine what side I was on.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I would view Ireland as being culturally Catholic as opposed to religiously Catholic. If that makes sense?

It makes perfect sense, and that's how the majority of the Irish Catholic-born population see themselves I'd say. It's difficult to get away from but I remind myself that it was the public's contributions that built the Catholic Church and not the other way around.

jm08

20-30 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You're right it is cultural. But my point is that the church is ingrained in Irish culture. I would view Ireland as being culturally Catholic as opposed to religiously Catholic. If that makes sense?

That makes a lot of sense. Holy Communion etc., is just a rite of passage where the kid makes a load of money and the family have a big celebation.

I've got a few kiwi, aussie and saffer friends here in Dublin who married Irish women. Out of that group of about a dozen, only 2 of us got married outside of churches. All of those that had kids, had to get them baptized due to either her family wanting it or for school. Another poster said that the church doesn't control the schools any more but thats not what my mates are telling me. I don't have kids so I don't know. I never knew what communions or confirmations were when I moved here, now I've been to dozens of them.

The church does complain that it is basically a prop now for weddings and that the main interest kids have with their communion is how much money they get!

Its these cultural differences that could cause tension or problems in some communities in a united Ireland. I don't know how exactly but some people might view it as an attack on or an oppression of their culture.

Well, I think they just get on with it in NI. For example, catholics mainly play sport on a Sunday while it is regarded as a day of rest for protestants. You may recall back in the day Ian Paisley protesting outside Ravenhill because Ulster were playing a European game on a Sunday.

Yes I have been to NI. Definitely didn't identify with anything in particular up there. In Belfast I was too busy staring at giant "peace" walls and murals of hatred and bigotry. In a couple of the small towns, had some uncomfortable conversations with locals in pubs that felt like they were trying to determine what side I was on.

Its not that long ago that the Ulster Rugby team used to have prayer meetings there. Quite a few were quite religious and used to speak at prayer meetings (Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar, Johann Muller, Andrew Trimble off the top of my head). From what I recall, Johann Muller had some sort of a religious experience that made him join Ulster. Nick Williams was another one as well who had very strong beliefs.


There is a joke going about people figuring out what side someone is on that goes something like ''are you a catholic or a protestant atheist''!

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Great Question

Class it would be a great question for you to answer your life would improve immeasurably that’s about it

But you’re Somehow unaware or in denial of that

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

....and it is a beautiful trend that is continuing. This is the single greatest obstruction to a UI, people affiliating with NI PLC. The biggest mistake the shinners ever made. 'northern Ireland' has now slipped into much SDLP language and chinks will appear when the odd shinner starts using the term

You talk some amount of bollocks but I’m glad to know you’re a parody With no relationship to reality

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Well I was in Dublin recently and was again struck how much catholic paraphernalia was up around walls etc. I was at a conference and you might as well have benn in a monastery with the stuff on the walls. It was fine and very interesting, but unusual for me

Understandable given flags and bonfires are usually more your thing

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's largely meaningless as was demonstrated by DC's inability to set out what a distinct NI culture is. It also says nothing about how a person feels on a United Ireland.

So Tom, let's say you win the vote 51% to 49% in favour of NI leaving the UK, what happens then?

What will be the practicalities of unhooking the Northern wagon from Britain, and hitching it onto our Irish Republican wagon?

Who wins?

Britain would be free of a troublesome member of her family, while we would inherit a hornets nest.

jh79

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Tom, let's say you win the vote 51% to 49% in favour of NI leaving the UK, what happens then?

What will be the practicalities of unhooking the Northern wagon from Britain, and hitching it onto our Irish Republican wagon?

Who wins?

Britain would be free of a troublesome member of her family, while we would inherit a hornets nest.

The referendum only goes ahead if likely to succeed. Opinions polls prior would need to show a majority a fair bit larger than margin of error to make sure that scenario doesn't happen.

Hamsterchops

jh79 wrote: »

The referendum only goes ahead if likely to succeed. Opinions polls prior would need to show a majority a fair bit larger than margin of error to make sure that scenario doesn't happen.

Seeing as SF are always asking for a border poll, I resume there's a majority already in favour of NI leaving the UK?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Seeing as SF are always asking for a border poll, I resume there's a majority already in favour of NI leaving the UK?

The reason Unionists resist a border poll so trenchantly is because they don't necessarily fear losing the first but because they don't want a serious conversation to begin on it.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Tom, let's say you win the vote 51% to 49% in favour of NI leaving the UK, what happens then?

Discussions on the shape of a UI. Maybe another referendum or two. Democratic stuff, you know the way it's done in other countries.

Runaways

10-15 years

Down wants his own Ministate in the united Ireland just give it to we can build a wall around it we can call it Protestine. Like Palestine but not.

Yeah_Right

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Tom, let's say you win the vote 51% to 49% in favour of NI leaving the UK, what happens then?

Bombings, murders, kneecapping.

jm08

20-30 years

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Bombings, murders, kneecapping.

By who?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

jm08 wrote: »

By who?

And for what?

Infini

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Tom, let's say you win the vote 51% to 49% in favour of NI leaving the UK, what happens then?

A UI BUT one in which the losing side is given assurances, looked after as much as reasonably possible and thing's are done so the reasonable ones at least are cushioned and guided into a new state so their loss is of little consequence and more towards their long term benefit like what happens in other referendum in other countries. Basically the only one's upset are the ignorant headbangers who refuse to see reason but at least are isolated in small numbers and ultimately dont cause much damage. Not like the UK Brexit referendum where the loosing side is told to shut up and deal with it and damn the consequences and expences.

FrancieBrady

Infini wrote: »

A UI BUT one in which the losing side is given assurances, looked after as much as reasonably possible and thing's are done so the reasonable ones at least are cushioned and guided into a new state so their loss is of little consequence and more towards their long term benefit like what happens in other referendum in other countries. Basically the only one's upset are the ignorant headbangers who refuse to see reason but at least are isolated in small numbers and ultimately dont cause much damage. Not like the UK Brexit referendum where the loosing side is told to shut up and deal with it and damn the consequences and expences.

Nail on the head, the belligerents are so well known now they'll be shut down and hemmed in very quickly.
Remembering that the British will have no interest in colluding with them. the British have tacitly withdrawn in the GFA, it's just a matter of time now. They'll get clear of NI without a conflagration that would embarrass them all over the world.

blinding

10-15 years

[HTML][/HTML]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Incidentally, written by a man born a stone's throw from where I am sitting here in Monaghan.

How far can you throw stone ? ?

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Eagle Eye. I am absolutely not Irish. I am British, Northern Irish, European. I am not French, Irish or Spanish. No matter how much you wish it.

You are the Irish part of Northern Irish. Do you deny that you were born on the Island of Ireland ( if you were ) ? ?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Infini wrote:

Basically the only one's upset are the ignorant headbangers who refuse to see reason but at least are isolated in small numbers and ultimately dont cause much damage.

You mean like the IRA many years ago?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote:

Eagle Eye. I am absolutely not Irish. I am British, Northern Irish, European. I am not French, Irish or Spanish. No matter how much you wish it.

I did say if you were born on the island you are Irish whether that be Irish or Northern Irish. You have the right to call yourself one or both. I don't agree that you are British though. You are a Unionist, that's not a place though it's a multi-state organisation and you are perfectly entitled to believe in that.
Britain though is the island that encompasses Scotland, England and Wales. Northern Ireland is not part of that.

Hamsterchops

eagle eye wrote: »

I did say if you were born on the island you are Irish whether that be Irish or Northern Irish. You have the right to call yourself one or both. I don't agree that you are British though. You are a Unionist, that's not a place though it's a multi-state organisation and you are perfectly entitled to believe in that.
Britain though is the island that encompasses Scotland, England and Wales. Northern Ireland is not part of that.

You really should read #8440 and #8449

RobMc59

10-15 years

eagle eye wrote: »

I did say if you were born on the island you are Irish whether that be Irish or Northern Irish. You have the right to call yourself one or both. I don't agree that you are British though. You are a Unionist, that's not a place though it's a multi-state organisation and you are perfectly entitled to believe in that.
Britain though is the island that encompasses Scotland, England and Wales. Northern Ireland is not part of that.

The passport for people from NI is the same as the rest of us in the UK.

jm08

20-30 years

If they want to refer to themselves as British, its no skin off anyone's nose, though going back to referring to themselves as Ulster-Scots might be a better description as no one will dispute that with them in the event of a UI and it would distinguish them as having a different identity to people who consider themselves to be just Irish.

Look at how the Anglo-Irish fit in here.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel bad for DC as he desperately shoves all his chips on the 'Northern Irish' thing and hopes to table 5 aces.

I think you will find I was responding to another poster who presented the fact that polls are showing that 'Northern Irish' is now the preferred go to position for the majority across the communities. You like to paint me as some strange minority - unfortunately for you the facts say something very different - and you don't like it

munsterlegend

RobMc59 wrote: »

The passport for people from NI is the same as the rest of us in the UK.

Rest of U.K. aren’t automatically entitled to an Irish passport or born on the island of Ireland. This is basic stuff Rob.

RobMc59

10-15 years

munsterlegend wrote: »

Rest of U.K. aren’t automatically entitled to an Irish passport or born on the island of Ireland. This is basic stuff Rob.

I`m aware of that but if you`re born in NI your nationality is British by default.